15 hours ago, Kdubb said:It’s always really odd when they release a card that everyone who knows anything about the game realizes it’s stupid strong for its cost ( in this case even WITHOUT the condition being considered), within minutes of reading it.
It was the first time my reaction was alarmed enough to make a thread
Still no clue why they made this mistake. The crazy thing is that we have now voices that call for an equal torpedo. Did those people learn nothing?!
Regarding Harpoons.
Well if anything this indicates how a big, loud, whining group of people can be wrong about something.
Since the beginning there were a lot of people moaning that ordnance and bombs are bad, unusable and should be stronger. Also there were a minority that would tell that it is pretty healthy state of the game to have weak ordnance because otherwise game would evolve into race to better alpha strike. Unfortunately FFG listened to constant moaning about weak ordnance. So, now we have a situtation that many forumites wanted to have, the dream came true - ordnance is worth taking, bombs are worth taking. And what happened? As minority foretold there is race to have the best alpha strike.
It is worth mentioning, especially given the fact that on this forum still pop up threads with "genius" ideas how to fix the game.
1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:You get the final top four minute details there sir? .....quite interesting.
http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3773
28 minutes ago, Embir82 said:Regarding Harpoons.
Well if anything this indicates how a big, loud, whining group of people can be wrong about something.
Since the beginning there were a lot of people moaning that ordnance and bombs are bad, unusable and should be stronger. Also there were a minority that would tell that it is pretty healthy state of the game to have weak ordnance because otherwise game would evolve into race to better alpha strike. Unfortunately FFG listened to constant moaning about weak ordnance. So, now we have a situtation that many forumites wanted to have, the dream came true - ordnance is worth taking, bombs are worth taking. And what happened? As minority foretold there is race to have the best alpha strike.
It is worth mentioning, especially given the fact that on this forum still pop up threads with "genius" ideas how to fix the game.
I think mainly people didn’t realize those ways to play are unfun if they’re ever good. Ion’s and Tractor Beams would ruin the game if they were ever super good.
16 hours ago, Darth Nadir said:Will someone explain to me the benefit of Long Range Scanners. I have yet to play this particular upgrade and I just don't understand why people use it. It makes sense to get the target lock early, especially if you want to be able to modify your dice with a focus as well, but not being able to take a target lock on a ship that's close to you just seems counterproductive. Somebody needs to educate me.
" The dark side is strong in me, for I am Sith. "
Without either LRS or Deadeye (or some external support such as Targeting Synchronizer or Tracers) low PS ordnance carriers fall into a range trap of sorts. First they can't fire their ordnance because the enemy was too far for them to get a target lock. Then they can't fire it because the enemy is too close, out of arc or simply destroyed the ordnance carriers.
Not being able to get a lock up close isn't that big of a problem because if you move first and the enemy is already within R2, you can be pretty sure after his move you'll be in R1 anyway. It only matters if you want to set up a second pass - and that implies you managed to deliver your alpha and survive, which is already a win. A bigger flaw of LRS is that it telegraphs your intentions and you can't choose targets on the fly as you would when using Deadeye. Still, unlike Deadeye LRS is free and does not require an EPT slot, which makes it effectively 3-4 points cheaper per ship.
2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:It turned out Empire was actually good, people just didn't play it
New Wave wasn’t legal, but I assume the FAQ was in full effect, and that’s relevant.
17 hours ago, Kdubb said:Seriously though. I would not be surprised if Harpoons are as present (or more) than tlt in its prime at top tables this regional season. I still have no idea what FFG was thinking with that one. It’s always really odd when they release a card that everyone who knows anything about the game realizes it’s stupid strong for its cost ( in this case even WITHOUT the condition being considered), within minutes of reading it.
Agreed. At the very least it needs to require you to spend the TL, maybe tone down the condition's ability to deal extra damage, and probably both. Just when the FAQ got me interested in playing the game again, Harpoon Missiles toss the game right back out the window.
15 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:The above sentence isn’t wrong, but the distribution spread did put gunboats at the top and bottom tables.
Unfortunately that just means more people are playing something, not that it's balanced.
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:The crazy thing is that we have now voices that call for an equal torpedo. Did those people learn nothing?!
I complain every now and then about FFG's favoritism toward Missiles (there are far more Missiles than Torpedoes, and most of the Missiles are flat our better, usually because they don't have to spend a TL; in fact, only Extra Munitions really matters these days and it's not even a ******* Torpedo!), but I complain about the fact that Missiles are better (see not having to spend TL) and no way in **** would I want a Harpoon-equivalent Torpedo!
17 hours ago, Estarriol said:Harpoons! Harpoons everywhere! The countdown to the next nerf begins.
I eagerly await.
Edited by ObiWonka1 hour ago, Embir82 said:Regarding Harpoons.
Well if anything this indicates how a big, loud, whining group of people can be wrong about something.
Since the beginning there were a lot of people moaning that ordnance and bombs are bad, unusable and should be stronger. Also there were a minority that would tell that it is pretty healthy state of the game to have weak ordnance because otherwise game would evolve into race to better alpha strike. Unfortunately FFG listened to constant moaning about weak ordnance. So, now we have a situtation that many forumites wanted to have, the dream came true - ordnance is worth taking, bombs are worth taking. And what happened? As minority foretold there is race to have the best alpha strike.
It is worth mentioning, especially given the fact that on this forum still pop up threads with "genius" ideas how to fix the game.
I believe that one should differentiate between people asking for ordnance to be stronger/worth taking and people asking for ordnance to be OP (if there were any). From my point of view, ordnance was balanced enough right before harpoon was introduced and harpoon threw away that balance by overcorrecting way too much. The fact that FFG overcorrected and made ordnance too powerful doesn't mean that people wanting ordnance to be stronger/more reliable were wrong at the time.
I personally hated harpoon first time I heard its characteristics, and I was playing ordnance-based builds for about two years.
On 17/12/2017 at 0:41 AM, Timathius said:Top 4 at NC regional
All imperial
2x Kylo boats
3 boats QD
palp aces
OMG Gunboat is OP!
I told you she was the Savior of the Empire!
6 minutes ago, PT106 said:I believe that one should differentiate between people asking for ordnance to be stronger/worth taking and people asking for ordnance to be OP (if there were any). From my point of view, ordnance was balanced enough right before harpoon was introduced and harpoon threw away that balance by overcorrecting way too much. The fact that FFG overcorrected and made ordnance too powerful doesn't mean that people wanting ordnance to be stronger/more reliable were wrong at the time.
I personally hated harpoon first time I heard its characteristics, and I was playing ordnance-based builds for about two years.
Cruise missiles are awesome, and they also keep the TL. I agree with you that Harpoons, specifically, are the problem.
2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Cruise missiles are awesome, and they also keep the TL. I agree with you that Harpoons, specifically, are the problem.
Exactly. My reference to a balanced ordnance was about the point after cruise missiles and FAQ, but before Harpoons.
Also when it comes to Harpoons I don't think those missiles are that big of a problem. In fact if Biggs nerf would never happen I would gladly invite them as a Biggs' kryptonite.
I also think Gunboat might be a sleeper powerhouse this wave - it is ship with 7 HP, 2 green dice, which thanks to LRS, ADV Slam and Reload action is effectively arc-dodger with lethal firepower at range 2-3 and infinite ordnance. Also let's not forget how cheap generics are. For those ships even removal of Harpoons wouldn't change much, they would be equipped with Homing Missiles which in my opinion in some cases are even better than Harpoons.
1 hour ago, Embir82 said:For those ships even removal of Harpoons wouldn't change much, they would be equipped with Homing Missiles which in my opinion in some cases are even better than Harpoons.
Yeah good point. Especially w/aces, not getting to spend an evade is just as good as an extra damage.
Also, in my experience, when harpoons trigger, they end up hitting the player who shot the harpoon missile half of the time.
That being said, harpoons are still insanely good!
3 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:Yeah good point. Especially w/aces, not getting to spend an evade is just as good as an extra damage.
Also, in my experience, when harpoons trigger, they end up hitting the player who shot the harpoon missile half of the time.
That being said, harpoons are still insanely good!
Depends on how many harpoons I'm facing. If I'm facing 1 I can get them to hit my opponent, 2 maybe, 3 no way, I'm dead.
3 hours ago, Timathius said:
Krayts on top!... But since there were 4 of them in the finals, at least 2 of them had to be power-bottoms.
Food for thought.
3 hours ago, Timathius said:
Hey the Scum 'dud' the KG made top 4. I mean it's still just one, but still.
On 12/16/2017 at 7:41 PM, Timathius said:Top 4 at NC regional
All imperial
2x Kylo boats
3 boats QD
palp aces
It's hot trash, but it would be fun playing Kagi + Reinforced Deflectors + Ysanne Isard (a bargain at 34 points) to troll these Long Range Sensor gunboat lists.
20 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:It's hot trash, but it would be fun playing Kagi + Reinforced Deflectors + Ysanne Isard (a bargain at 34 points) to troll these Long Range Sensor gunboat lists.
Given that Isard would only start working once you have 0 shields and 1 damage and Reinforced Deflectors would give you a shield back, this doesn't sound wise. Although Kagi+Countermeasures+Tractor Beam may end up being a nice troll.
15 minutes ago, PT106 said:Given that Isard would only start working once you have 0 shields and 1 damage and Reinforced Deflectors would give you a shield back, this doesn't sound wise. Although Kagi+Countermeasures+Tractor Beam may end up being a nice troll.
Since Harpoons hit so hard, it just adds some tankiness. Given the hot trashiness of this ship, I am not going to tell you that tractor or CM are wastes of points. lol.
1 minute ago, RunnerAZ said:Since Harpoons hit so hard, it just adds some tankiness. Given the hot trashiness of this ship, I am not going to tell you that tractor or CM are wastes of points. lol.
My point is that (unless I'm missing something) you won't have a chance to use Isard in this build. Lets say Kagi started the round with 5 hull and 2 shields. Harpoon hits for 3 (lets assume Kagi managed to roll evade or missile whiffed), so Kagi loses 2 shields 1 hull and gets a shield back via Reinforced Deflectors. So he's at 4 hull 1 shield and therefore can't trigger Isard next round.
What about Rebel Captive on Kagi? Get a little stress control in there?
3 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:What about Rebel Captive on Kagi? Get a little stress control in there?
THIS IS NOT A SERIOUS SHIP
5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Still no clue why they made this mistake.
It's not a mistake. (Well, when mistake is defined as "done accidentally or without realization of consequences.") Harpoon Missiles shorten games.
Just now, Jeff Wilder said:It's not a mistake. (Well, when mistake is defined as "done accidentally or without realization of consequences.") Harpoon Missiles shorten games.
Technically you're correct. I do disagree with their reasoning for their action though.
Mistake: An error in action/judgement caused by poor reasoning.
25 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:Harpoon Missiles shorten games.
They would have if the time it takes to understand how the condition reacts to certain situations didn’t lose all that time gained.
