12 hours ago, Shirys said:

Agree with you on that. I think that's the way i would play it, more fun. Makes more sense.

For balance's sake though, since doing this would increase the available skill pool from a single character to the whole group's (which is a lot more than intended by the official rules), maybe reduce the number of skills when you create a character by one or two, or even reduce total stamina =/

Again, i don't have the game so i can't really test it but it is an idea i strongly support for sure.

Though i might understand the reason why the designers brought the mechanic this way in the rules when playing several characters, i don't find fun the fact that when someone's time to shine finally arrives (which might have been awaited for the last 30 mins or so listening to someone reading a book), he can't shine at all since he previously decided to go take a leak in the nearby bushes. This could be frustrating for the player and strip him from his desire to play the game again since every time his precious skills are required, he's "activated" and can't use it so he's basically useless. I mean, not totally useless since the active player still can choose on of the available options, but not the one where your new exiting skill could have made a big difference, which ends up feeling like disapointment. Who know, maybe in the next 30 mins i'll have the occasion to use one of my skills. Oh wait, i still can't use my precious skills because in the previous decision, i just threw a few coins in the palm of some beggar... i wanted to bring some good in this bleak world and i'm penalized for it. Seems broken to me.

Never saw any RPGs played like this, unless your toon is paralyzed, unconscious or whatevs.

My opinion solely.

Agree so much.

How can they have been so stupid to go with the rules as they are (as it appears to be) are they stupid?

so basically for most of the story you dont need to listen, but when its your activation, sit up, listen and make a decision? then switch off as you cant do anything anyway??

Oh yay 10 mins later its my turn, lets save the party with my thieving skills...oh no, I can only choose to try lift the heavy box with none existent strength skills?? Well that was worth it....

If you could use any skill possessed by any member of the party, the character creation would barely matter.

Duplicating someone else’s skills would be pointless and a party of 3 or more people would likely possess every single skill and could access practically any choice at every decision point.

It doesn’t mean that a wizard is trying to pick a lock while a rogue stands there doing nothing. Instead, the wizard does not even take the choice to pick the lock (you can rationalize that even though the rogue can pick locks, he can’t pick this SPECIFIC lock, so the wizard decides on another course of action).

Since there are no ability tests to determine success and failure, and it’s impractical to expect a person can pick every lock he encounters just because of one skill, the activation token system is a good way to enforce that you can’t pick every lock you encounter (but you might be able to pick more if you have multiple people with the skill or you plan your activations carefully)

The active player makes the choice but he’s welcome to get feedback from the rest of the team, including those who have already activated, and can take the chance to role play this if he wants.

”Hey Ethan do you think you can get this lock open?”

“Sorry, it’s too complicated for me. We don’t have time!”

“Ok, I’ll try to break it. Hopefully it’s not too noisy?”

And the idea that Ethan’s “turn” will come up on a choice he doesn’t want to make will only occur if he’s declined to make the choice on every previous decision such that he’s the only person with a remaining token. Even still, he’s not going to struggling to lift a heavy object while somebody stronger stands there - more likely he won’t even have the option to lift it and will choose another outcome instead.

Well, having played “To New Roads” last night I can confirm that all of my fears are true. Especially my fears of the activation tokens. To be honest, it got so weird at some points that there were moments we just said heck with the tokens let’s just play the thing! Obviously there are some story points where the tokens are sort of a requirement and but overall we just sort of judged ourselves as to whether the character who needed the skill was unoccupied enough to do the task at hand. I’ve got to admit though, the game is terribly boring for the people not doing the reading :/ Heck, even for me it was kind of dragging.

17 minutes ago, power500500 said:

Well, having played “To New Roads” last night I can confirm that all of my fears are true. Especially my fears of the activation tokens. To be honest, it got so weird at some points that there were moments we just said heck with the tokens let’s just play the thing! Obviously there are some story points where the tokens are sort of a requirement and but overall we just sort of judged ourselves as to whether the character who needed the skill was unoccupied enough to do the task at hand. I’ve got to admit though, the game is terribly boring for the people not doing the reading :/ Heck, even for me it was kind of dragging.

How can they imagine its a good idea to let people not have a go when its clearly their characters time to do something in the story? What were they smoking.

Just cant figure out what design or post design process they went through which made somebody think..'hey thats a good idea'.

to make it more 'fun all round' could players take it in turn to do the reading maybe?

.

9 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

How can they have been so stupid to go with the rules as they are (as it appears to be) are they stupid?

I don't think they are stupid. I'm quite certain FFG is aware of this flaw.

It might just be a difficult balance decision they had to take to make the game playable without having all the skill pool available right from the start (which feels too easy for me and pointless to gain new skills). The way they brought it might just be a little awkward. Not sure how to go around it without breaking game balance.

Maybe in future expansions they'll tweak it a little bit?

Just now, Shirys said:

I don't think they are stupid. I'm quite certain FFG is aware of this flaw.

It might just be a difficult balance decision they had to take to make the game playable without having all the skill pool available right from the start (which feels too easy for me and pointless to gain new skills). The way they brought it might just be a little awkward. Not sure how to go around it without breaking game balance.

Maybe in future expansions they'll tweak it a little bit?

Hmm...its a new game which you would think somebody has sat down and considered balance etc...why is it so easy to get all the skills and 'pointless'.

Im getting this game, i sold myself on the hype a while ago but I am just amazed at some of the apparent implementation.

5 minutes ago, VAYASAN said:

Im getting this game, i sold myself on the hype a while ago

I plan on getting it too since i'm a sucker for the Runebound universe.

Might just play it solo for now though to fix some of the issues like the long periods having other players growing impatient listening to you reading the story and also, no activation token confusion with only one character's worth of available skills for making decisions. Might be more challenging and causing a new play through with a completely different character to be more diverse and enjoyable.

It would feel more like a huge CYOA with multiple chapters. Could scratch that nostalgic itch from the 80s but in the Runebound universe.

1 hour ago, Shirys said:

I plan on getting it too since i'm a sucker for the Runebound universe.

Same here, if they slapped Runebound on a half-eaten sandwich I’d buy it. That said, this is not fun in my opinion. It’s cool to see the lore that I love play out but the “game” itself is just not great :/

I used to collect Runebound too, stating with the original Runebound and Descent series, but it was because I liked the games. The universe expanded into games I didn’t really care to play. For example I passed on Runewars Miniatures for now until I can get opponents.

Maybe if Legacy of Dragonholt doesn’t sound right for you, you could skip it? It’s nice to have lore but the lore is spread over so many games that reading about the universe becomes expensive unless the games are enjoyed! (Repeat above for any franchise ever made involving a shared theme...)

20 hours ago, power500500 said:

That said, this is not fun in my opinion. It’s cool to see the lore that I love play out but the “game” itself is just not great :/

Maybe it would be a more enjoyable experience solo?

Smaller pool of skills, more challenge, no activation awkwardness. Could be a nice game to play when you want to relax after work, not too heavy and just making your imagination drift into Terrinoth and its lore.

You go through the books at your own pace, discover the story. Maybe even house rule something for sudden death like in the old CYOA books.

19 hours ago, Artaterxes said:

For example I passed on Runewars Miniatures for now until I can get opponents

Runewars miniatures is sadly not for me. I am a gamer, not a hobbyist.

I almost bought it but rolled a crit on my will save.

Though i really much enjoy Battlelore 2nd and i long for the unlikely announcement of Latari expansions, Runewars minis feel too Warhammer~ish for my taste. I'd rather have a board with terrain tiles and pre-made scenarios (play out of the box with some custom army building rules) than having to build my own board, terrain elements and features. Some people really enjoy that, maybe even more than playing. I don't, leaves me indifferent. I paint a little but i'm certainly no expert.

Game looks good, just not for me.

2 hours ago, Shirys said:

Maybe it would be a more enjoyable experience solo?

Smaller pool of skills, more challenge, no activation awkwardness. Could be a nice game to play when you want to relax after work, not too heavy and just making your imagination drift into Terrinoth and its lore.

You go through the books at your own pace, discover the story. Maybe even house rule something for sudden death like in the old CYOA books.

I’ve actually started playing it solo because everyone else quit on it already :/ Still not feeling it. I keep saying to myself, “Man, I’d rather be playing Descent right now.” I’m obviously going to get through it, it’s just not as engaging as I would wish.

4 minutes ago, power500500 said:

I’ve actually started playing it solo because everyone else quit on it already :/ Still not feeling it. I keep saying to myself, “Man, I’d rather be playing Descent right now.” I’m obviously going to get through it, it’s just not as engaging as I would wish.

Sounds like a huge disappointment to me...shame because the concept and framework is great....surely any gamer could have come up with better mechanics than they seem to have, thats why imo its so infuriating.

1 hour ago, VAYASAN said:

Sounds like a huge disappointment to me...shame because the concept and framework is great....surely any gamer could have come up with better mechanics than they seem to have, thats why imo its so infuriating.

I agree that the system is promising. In my review, I basically said you need to know how the game works to appreciate what it's trying to do. I think FFG could have been a bit clearer on why the unconventional concepts are the way they are. Otherwise gamers are just going to be comparing it to the traditional systems and think the game is flawed. My expectations for this game were very different from what I ended up with. Had I known what to expect, I would have played it differently.

Inside the village, the active player is who chose the location, and all characters skills are available (on page 6). Outside the village you take turns making decisions. This what everybody gets a chance to shine but at the same time, based on luck of activation, you don't get to do everything. If you don't meet the requirement, assume the option doesn't exist. This is good because replay... Next time with different characters, skills and activation order, you'll get to experience different things. This is a good system and doesn't sound flawed at all. Complaining about the option not being available is like complaining you rolled a 1 in D&D

I'm amazed so many people are troubled by the activation mechanic. It didn't cause a problem for me at all.I really think people were expecting more game, but this is definitely an interactive story more than a game.

I think decision points are supposed to help you focus on characters and not groups. Sure, in the meta game, you decide as a party who will activate, but in the story, there isn't such a discussion. The camera moves to one character's point of view and you see how they would handle the situation.

The point of the game is not to see what a character does but to find out what happens in the story.

I have found that the best way to play this is with one Narrator and One player playing One character.

The activation token is thus ignored.

There seems to be a dichotomy here of either the token stops the alpha player from making all the choices. or the issue of having too many skills in a party of characters.

I would say the token does help with controlling the alpha player. But the having all the skills covered is also an issue. as mentioned above, three starting characters can cover the entire list and furthermore...

I think the best solution is to restrict the party skill limit and not the character skill limit in creations and to use the tokens to control the alpha and to allow any player to choose any character to use any skill at any time in the matter mention above as ( wizard: "hey thief, unlock this door." )

Very late reply, but we don't have an alpha problem in our group, so weren't concerned with the "each player gets to make a decision" stuff and ignored the Activation tokens. Frex, If the scene called for a single hero (eg. New Road's climbing up a tree), then the hero's player would make the decisions until the end of the scene (ie. until he gets down from the tree). The game itself occasionally does something like this, such as selecting one player for watch when camping. Unfortunately, to do this you'd either need to rewrite the adventure, or have a GM for this to work.

I also think a party limit of skills is a good idea, although our group has players dropping in and out of the game.

As for LoD best played with one player, that reduces it to any other CYOA solo adventure, and there are plenty of them (eg. Fabled Lands) that are much less expensive. Myself, I play tabletop games for their social aspect, which is why I picked up LoD.