Leia conundrum

By Stovrose38, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

When a fleet with Leia as it's commander, has a ship with an engineering token and then reveals an engineering dial... the accepted practice is that Leia's ability and the existing token do not combine... (for 8 engineering points on an MC80) but I must ask... why?

Rules for Tokens and Dials :

Combining a token with a dial, Rules Reference pg 4, fourth bullet in the left column:

A ship can spend both a command dial and a command
token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a
single resolution of the command.

Commands, FAQ pg 5. first question in the right column:

Q: When a ship spends a command dial and token of the same
type, does that count as one resolution of that command?
A: Yes.

This states that it is a single resolution of a command (Leia's restriction) and has no limit on spending multiple of the same token.... mainly because you aren't allowed to have multiple of the same token on your ship prior to revealing your dial, so when these rules were written it wasn't even possible.

Rules on multiple commands:

No commands more than once, Rules Reference pg pg, fifth bullet in the left column:

A ship cannot resolve the same command more than
once per round.

Commands, FAQ pg 5. fifth question in the right column:

Q: If a ship has a [Concentrate Fire] dial and a [Concentrate Fire] token, can it spend those
tokens against different targets during the same round?
A: No. A ship cannot resolve each command more than once
each round.

This first rule seems a little odd, since you can't EVER have 2 dials revealed at the same time, so the only way this would come into effect is with tokens... and that has already been determined to be considered a single command. The FAQ clarifies with a situation in which this could actually happen... now that is a pretty clear distinction. The two commands would be happening at different times, thus happening twice and not combining the effect, so this means the 'Cannot resolve the same command more than once per round' doesn't really apply here.

Why is the norm to say that combining and existing dial with leia's proc considered resolving multiple commands at the same time? That is contradictory to the 'combining tokens with dials' ruling and as long as the command is being resolved in the same timing window, against the same target (in regards to concentrate fire), I don't see how you can't combine the token with her effect and essentially get 2 rerolls, or 2 squadrons, or a full other engineering value, or change speed by an additional 2...

Discuss

(This has been discussed to death before in previous threads, including the why)

In short: Leia only triggers when you spend "a Dial".

Not a Dial+Token.

Not a Token.

Her Card says when you Spend a Dial .

Because there are 3 ways of resolving a Command:

1) Token
2) Dial (Leia triggers on this one)
3) Dial+Token

Plus, there is no way of resolving a Dial+Token+Token effect, as there are no rules for it.

(This also has a follow-on to Thrawn)

Edited by Drasnighta

Leia does not say 'when you spend a dial only', just when you spend a dial. You're inferring that it only applies to a dial only situation.

Secondly, there is no distinction between a dial or a dial+token scenario, it's just considered resolving a command. And since it's already ruled that a dial+token is a single command just as a dial is a single command, there is no real distinction between the two.

1 minute ago, Stovrose38 said:

Leia does not say 'when you spend a dial only', just when you spend a dial. You're inferring that it only applies to a dial only situation.

Secondly, there is no distinction between a dial or a dial+token scenario, it's just considered resolving a command. And since it's already ruled that a dial+token is a single command just as a dial is a single command, there is no real distinction between the two.

Feel free to go to the thread where it is discussed and reopen the discussion.

But, look at Leia's ACTUAL wording:

"When a friendly ship resolves a command by spending a command dial,"

Its talking about specifically Resolving a Command by Spending a Command Dial.

This is one of the three ways of Resolving a Command .

Edited by Drasnighta

I couldn't find it, that's why I started this one... (also it's like 9am the day after a holiday, so I'm a little lazy)

1 minute ago, Stovrose38 said:

I couldn't find it, that's why I started this one... (also it's like 9am the day after a holiday, so I'm a little lazy)

Well, there was a Leia Topic on the 1st page..

And it had a link on its first post :)

That's how I found it so quickly.

22 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

This is one of the three ways of Resolving a Command .

Where is this? I know I've seen it before, but it's not in the FAQ, Rules Reference or the Learn to play.

I know it from Previous Email Responses from James Kniffen, who at the time, was head designer of Armada.

But then, how about this:


• A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token with the matching icon at the appropriate time.

• A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round.

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command.

You can indeed combine the effect of a Dial and a Token for a combined effect.

Leia, effectively, when you spend a Dial, results in a Combined effect.

Even if you Spend a Dial with Leia, and a Token... The End result is a Combined Effect of Dial and Token .

Yeah this has been discused to death before, no point in bringing it up. There is no double token or double command for Leia and Thrawn. It does not exist.

Resolved by FAQ

On 24/11/2017 at 6:39 PM, Drasnighta said:

Even if you Spend a Dial with Leia, and a Token... The End result is a Combined Effect of Dial and Token .

It is even easier. You CANNOT resolve Leia while spending a dial and a token.

2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

It is even easier. You CANNOT resolve Leia while spending a dial and a token.

Minor gripe, but TBH I kind of wish they'd clarified this a little more strongly to address the underlying question of whether you could theoretically spend dial+2 tokens. As I read the rules, it's clear that you can't, but apparently that's less clear to others, and it would've helped future-proof.


Edit: they did exactly that. Hurr.

Edited by Ardaedhel
dumb brain
4 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Minor gripe, but TBH I kind of wish they'd clarified this a little more strongly to address the underlying question of whether you could theoretically spend dial+2 tokens. As I read the rules, it's clear that you can't, but apparently that's less clear to others, and it would've helped future-proof.

They did separately though didn’t they?

You cannot spend 2 identical dials or tokens... only dial, token, or matching dial+token...

Q: Can a ship resolve the effect of a command by spending multiple matching command dials or command tokens?

A: No. A ship may only resolve a command by spending one command dial, one command token, or one command dial and one matching command token.

Edited by Drasnighta
1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

Minor gripe, but TBH I kind of wish they'd clarified this a little more strongly to address the underlying question of whether you could theoretically spend dial+2 tokens. As I read the rules, it's clear that you can't, but apparently that's less clear to others, and it would've helped future-proof.

They did right?

They also added the Leia clarification ending with any doubt. It is not the effect is the same it is just that spending both doesn't fulfill Leia's requirement.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

They did separately though didn’t they?

You cannot spend 2 identical dials or tokens... only dial, token, or matching dial+token...

Oh ****!

:ph34r:

So close this time. If just my grandmother wouldn't have me ask something...

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

They did separately though didn’t they?

You cannot spend 2 identical dials or tokens... only dial, token, or matching dial+token...

Oh. Sho nuff.

IGNORE ME.

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

Oh. Sho nuff.

IGNORE ME.

We’re all still taking this in ?

This May not be a flashy, Rules overturning, crazy *** re learn how to play FAQ...

... but **** if it’s not a solid one anyway...

Just now, Drasnighta said:

We’re all still taking this in ?

This May not be a flashy, Rules overturning, crazy *** re learn how to play FAQ...

... but **** if it’s not a solid one anyway...

Agreed.

It's all moot. The FAQ hath spoken!