25 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Its still better than Wedge against 2 agility or higher at range 3 through a rock. That is where BO will shine.

3 (base agility) - 2 (BO ability) = 1 base agility + 1 (rock) = 2 + 1 (range 3) = 3, so a net loss of 2 at range 3 through a rock if you are base 3 agility (same math applies for agility 2). Wedge would only net you one less green die on the defender. Against 1 agility or less, its a wash and basically the same thing Wedge would give you as you can't go down to a negative agility value. You'll want to set him up between your opponents list and as much rocks as possible. Slow roll him in to ensure you get range 3 attacks through debris.

In which case, it’s not that because it would just be stupid.

If it had a card to reword tactical jammer this could get interesting

Silencer in some form should've gotten "After performing a barrel roll you may perform an attack on an enemy ship."

For canon reasons and stuff.

1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

Look. We have things like Fenn Rau, TBC, Rey+Finn, and easy to get off 4+ dice ordnance in game. Having a 3 printed on your card, with no offensive upgrades isn't too much these days, and an unmodified 3 dice shot (with PTL adv. sens repositioning that's what you are going to get) is not much.

Do I like this? No. Is there anything I can do about it? No.

This is just the sorry state of things with all this powercreep happening.

#dontshootthemessenger

Yeah, still not buying it.

If you consider 3 dice to be "low offense", then what do you consider Fenn Rau and TBC? " Medium offense?" If anything, the 4 die types that can hit 5, like VCX-100, TIE Phantom, Upsilon, Fenn Rau, and TBC should be considered "high" offense alongside disposable ordnance as they are capable of consistent, unlimited uses. The introduction of the reload action, EM and OS-1 title tweaks that a bit, but as an overall rule, it suits the game.

Or do you just have two ideas of offensive strength, "high" and "everyone else".

And if you are going to consider something like Rey+Finn in your comparison, they you better consider other upgrade cards when comparing, like a Silencer with Swarm Leader, because Finn is an offensive upgrade card. Sure most people leave it stapled to Rey, but if you are going to consider upgrades, then do it for both subjects in the comparison, or neither.

Just now, kris40k said:

Yeah, still not buying it.

If you consider 3 dice to be "low offense", then what do you consider Fenn Rau and TBC? " Medium offense?" If anything, the 4 die types that can hit 5, like VCX-100, TIE Phantom, Upsilon, Fenn Rau, and TBC should be considered "high" offense alongside disposable ordnance as they are capable of consistent, unlimited uses. The introduction of the reload action, EM and OS-1 title tweaks that a bit, but as an overall rule, it suits the game.

Or do you just have two ideas of offensive strength, "high" and "everyone else".

And if you are going to consider something like Rey+Finn in your comparison, they you better consider other upgrade cards when comparing, like a Silencer with Swarm Leader, because Finn is an offensive upgrade card. Sure most people leave it stapled to Rey, but if you are going to consider upgrades, then do it for both subjects in the comparison, or neither.

Well. That argument makes sense, and I admit to a bit of a hyperbole.

In my head its something like this:

Good offense

Okay offense

Meh offense

Where is this intel coming from?

Perhaps it is just roll 2 add’l dice and not aligned with attacking or defending...like if you own this ship you can roll 2 more dice in Yatzee or move 4-24 spaces in Monopoly.

1 hour ago, Skargoth said:

Silencer in some form should've gotten "After performing a barrel roll you may perform an attack on an enemy ship."

For canon reasons and stuff.

If you are going to cite canon, it should also have a missile slot.

8 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

If you are going to cite canon, it should also have a missile slot.

Oh right, that was why I didn't state 'primary weapon,' thanks for reminding me!

3 hours ago, kris40k said:

6 hits with 3 defense dice is delicate?

3 attack dice is low offense?

The Defender has a better defensive profile, and that was considered paper thin until the x7 title.

3 Attack dice is fine with mods, but because you're paper thin and you need to point your guns at your targets (you are imperial after all) you're going to be spending your action to boost or roll most turns. This means that you're going to have to spend your EPT on some method of boosting your offense just to get up to basic mods on your attack. The silencer isn't limp wristed, but it's hardly an offensive powerhouse.

I desperately want this to be good, we deserve to have good ships like everybody else, I'm just unimpressed with what we've seen so far. That dial had better be insanely good. Scum levels of good.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

The Defender has a better defensive profile, and that was considered paper thin until the x7 title.

3 Attack dice is fine with mods, but because you're paper thin and you need to point your guns at your targets (you are imperial after all) you're going to be spending your action to boost or roll most turns. This means that you're going to have to spend your EPT on some method of boosting your offense just to get up to basic mods on your attack. The silencer isn't limp wristed, but it's hardly an offensive powerhouse.

I desperately want this to be good, we deserve to have good ships like everybody else, I'm just unimpressed with what we've seen so far. That dial had better be insanely good. Scum levels of good.

Running PtL for the EPT is a decent choice if you are running AdvSensors, which with couple with a boost and barrel roll, should allow for a focus token and green 2 turns to victory. The Silencer also has access to AT, which the Defender variants do not, and that is very important to consider in defense. The First Order Vanguard title gives both a positional offensive boost, and an emergency defensive boost if needed. Considering the cost of the ship kitted out, its unlikely you'll be running more than one so the Uniqueness of the title isn't that much of a problem.

There is also an available Tech slot and one more unspoiled Tech card in the pack.

The Silencer is neither paper thin, nor hitting like a tokenless Interceptor.

It is very expensive, however.

2 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The Defender has a better defensive profile, and that was considered paper thin until the x7 title.

3 Attack dice is fine with mods, but because you're paper thin and you need to point your guns at your targets (you are imperial after all) you're going to be spending your action to boost or roll most turns. This means that you're going to have to spend your EPT on some method of boosting your offense just to get up to basic mods on your attack. The silencer isn't limp wristed, but it's hardly an offensive powerhouse.

I desperately want this to be good, we deserve to have good ships like everybody else, I'm just unimpressed with what we've seen so far. That dial had better be insanely good. Scum levels of good.

True, but in theory it doesn't need to be. It should, theoretically, be dodging arcs like Soontir and chipping away at the enemy. Death by a thousand cuts is the Imperial way. The problem is the rest of the game just over uses PWTs and bombs, because skill is for losers.

12 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

True, but in theory it doesn't need to be. It should, theoretically, be dodging arcs like Soontir and chipping away at the enemy. Death by a thousand cuts is the Imperial way. The problem is the rest of the game just over uses PWTs and bombs, because skill is for losers.

I play Arc dodgers more than anyone I know, but I wouldn’t say seeing where people are at a higher PS than them and having double reposition is “skill”. Yes, it requires skill to not get blocked, but it’s much easier to dodge Arcs when you already know where they are.

I always find it funny when people use Soontir as the example of what good arc-dodging looks like, and oh, why can’t we have him back in the game...

Soontir was a piece of ****. You could block him or stress him which made him better than OG x7s, but it’s not like focus + focus + evade + autothrusters + stealth (+Palp) was fun to play against. It’s also not like there were a lot of times where I would call arc-dodging with him “impressive,” since you can waste two actions and still have focus Palp AT. Not saying he was ever the worst thing in the game, and he’s certainly not as bad as things like (old) Nym, but he ain’t exactly the snappy underdog.

The Silencer is interesting. No evade sucks, but AdvS+PtL with that dial and Primed Thrusters really sucks for jousting lists. There’s not a whole ton of counterplay there.

1 hour ago, Tbetts94 said:

I play Arc dodgers more than anyone I know, but I wouldn’t say seeing where people are at a higher PS than them and having double reposition is “skill”. Yes, it requires skill to not get blocked, but it’s much easier to dodge Arcs when you already know where they are.

I agree that arc dodging isn’t really high skill, however playing the game with only front arc ships is, whether those ships are low PS or high PS.

30 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

I agree that arc dodging isn’t really high skill, however playing the game with only front arc ships is, whether those ships are low PS or high PS.

Agreed.

5 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:

I agree that arc dodging isn’t really high skill, however playing the game with only front arc ships is, whether those ships are low PS or high PS.

Wow. It’s sad how true this is.

1 hour ago, Ailowynn said:

Wow. It’s sad how true this is.

Its largely the inveitable and incredibly obvious problem of having a nothought turret mechanic in a game about manuevering

Warmachine second ed. Had a similar problem with "reach", basically melee units with long melee weapons such as pikes and halberds, allowing attacks from two inches away rather than the standard 0.5. that's FOUR TIMES THE RANGE btw

If you weren't the most amazing goddamn thing and you didn't have reach, you just weren't played. The player with reach simply had an undeniable advantage due to the utter ease of positioning afforded by the extra range

Turrets are basically a far more busted version of reach and they're slapped on the most manueverable ships in the game (including THE most manueverable, Dash). Unless the gap between them and arcs are closed (as warmachine Ed 3 upped the normal melee range to 1") or some ACTUAL limits are placed on out of arc attacks (actual ranged attacks in warmachine are weaker in strength and have a LOT of limitations) they're going to continue to be dominant

Aa for test pilots, I don't think you will EVER trigger his ability. It's hard enough to even draw arcs on ships that don't care about their facing, let alone getting intentionally obstructed shots. It'd be like trying to run an uphill race against some ******* on a jackass while both your legs are chained to a boulder

Thinking about the difficulty in triggering his ability v flying a turret, he'd have to deal an extra faceup damage card when attacking to even come close to bridging the gap

Wonder if this would be useful with a Decimator+Tactical Jammer? Yes you no longer have EU, but you're not wanting your mobile debris field to get too far away from your target anyway. Of course, this only works if the ability adds defensive dice.

Actually, if it is defense only, one has to wonder if DUN DUN DUN Expose might be a good upgrade choice for Blackout? You would still be gaining a net increase in defense dice, but would be firing through a suddenly non-obstructing Decimator with one more die that usual. Put Expose on the Deci too and that could be some serious hurting if your formation flying is up to par.

On 11/24/2017 at 7:22 AM, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Throw on the colision detector for fun, and try to make then chase you.

While it would be interesting to see more ships using debris clouds because they are immune to it, I don't think this will be the same level as Super Dash. Thing is Super dash can retreat through a debris cloud and still fire back at anyone that chases him. TIE Silencer can only just fly through unless it wants to do a K-turn and through a debris cloud that is not recomended.

2 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Wonder if this would be useful with a Decimator+Tactical Jammer? Yes you no longer have EU, but you're not wanting your mobile debris field to get too far away from your target anyway. Of course, this only works if the ability adds defensive dice.

Actually, if it is defense only, one has to wonder if DUN DUN DUN Expose might be a good upgrade choice for Blackout? You would still be gaining a net increase in defense dice, but would be firing through a suddenly non-obstructing Decimator with one more die that usual. Put Expose on the Deci too and that could be some serious hurting if your formation flying is up to par.

Tactical Jammer only obstructs enemy attacks...

57 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Tactical Jammer only obstructs enemy attacks...

"Of course, this only works if the ability adds defensive dice."

I will say, playing the Silencer on Battlefront II, realitive to an XWing it feels like 4 reds not 3. I know that’s not worth much, but just saying

3 hours ago, Lobokai said:

I will say, playing the Silencer on Battlefront II, realitive to an XWing it feels like 4 reds not 3. I know that’s not worth much, but just saying

He is a hero ship so naturally does more damage than standard. However, when compared to Poe, who regenerates naturally, has BB8 to regenerate health as well in a pinch, his Ferromite armour which reduces damage to himself and team mates PLUS his disgusting primary AND torp damage . . he is massively superior. With the way Poe fires in Battlefront 2, he should be four red dice primary with 8 dice proton torp (which doesn't need you to spent the target lock).

I don't want that Poe thank you. Imagine it!

Battlefront 2 Poe:
A: 4
E: 2
H: 5
S: 4

BB8: At the start of the end phase you may remove 2 face down damage cards or add 2 shield tokens to your pilot card. If you do, flip this card.
Otherside: Action: Flip this card - This cannot be used as a free action

Black 1 Title
At the start of the combat phase, you may discard this card to assign 1 reinforce token to yourself and all friendly ships within range 1.

4 hours ago, Lobokai said:

I will say, playing the Silencer on Battlefront II, realitive to an XWing it feels like 4 reds not 3. I know that’s not worth much, but just saying

I'd like to have seen the Silencer get a bullseye arc, and an extra red against ships inside it if there's nothing else in it, from the title.

Something more than just a basic arc with 3 basic dice.