37 minutes ago, Shosuro Teri said:

You do know what you're essentially doing is saying is passing your playstyle as the playstyle to take, with any deck you use since at this point I don't really know what deck your using anymore. Stating opinions and passing them up as facts are the surest way to get people riled up. You're saying you play a certain way, and if you're not doing it like that, you're playing it wrong. Yeah, goodluck with that.

Spiritcallers and staging grounds? I said throw out honor reliant cards. This 2 doesn't require any honor, hence I didn't say make a deck without em.

Dude xD There is a card pool and finite amount of cards for every clan. Right now Lion don't have a lot of cards that support "play one character pass dynasty" playstyle. There is no good replacement for honor requirement cards. What will you put in instead of Venerable Historian with similar political presence? what will you put in instead Obstinate Recruit for the same price? You can make this deck, but the cards are written for a different type of playstyle(or pushed by designers if you will). It won't be wrong per se it just wouldn't be very efficient to go against the nature of cards available.

Spirit Callers and Staging Grounds question - I will explain: Spirit Callers require you to go through your dynasty deck very fast as to make their ability relevant asap. You could discard all of the cards you didn't play each turn I guess but it would lead to very problematic turns especially considering lackluster board presence you would have with this playstyle. Moreover most of the Lion strengths lies in the dynasty deck so throwing it away just so you can play a bit more of average conflict cards is kinda stupid. Staging Grounds is the second part of the engine that lets you see up to 5 cards each turn which means you can discard personalities faster. It obviously has no use in a deck that plays one character and passes, since it encourges "go wide" strategy.

This two card engine is what carries Lion through the meta right now, without them the deck is a completly different(weaker) one.

37 minutes ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Yeah, that's exactly what you did to me and you're advocating not to? You sure are full of contradictory statements aren't you?

So I said calling people on the internet stupid is part of the convention and then I called you stupid. Seems kinda consistent to me.

But seriously read his post it looks like he is genuinely angry, I just felt bad for him.

26 minutes ago, BordOne said:

So I said calling people on the internet stupid is part of the convention and then I called you stupid.

Yeah, but I didn't call your argument stupid now did I? So no, people just use expletives thinking it helps their case. You also said I made this personal in a reply to my post about not hating Lion nor you, all the while calling me effing stupid, with no provocation. Sure my posts were snarky, it's meant to be like that. When you try to feed people your opinion and call it fact, that's what generally what happens. I don't care if the most delicious ice cream comes out of you're ***, I still won't eat it because **** comes out of it as well. Calling people stupid and trying to convince them in the same post will never help your cause.

This is you're stance: I play a certain way, and that's the only way to play. Don't do it, and you're playing wrong. People have scorpion decks that bid low for dishonor, or decks that don't rely on expensive conflict characters. They've had success with it. They're not saying it's the only way to play Scorpion. Follow their lead.

22 minutes ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Yeah, you also said I made this personal in a reply to my post about not hating Lion nor you, all the while calling me effing stupid. Yep. Consistency. I don't care if the most delicious ice cream comes out of you're ***, I still won't eat it because **** comes out of it as well. Calling people stupid and trying to convince them in the same post will never help your cause.

This is you're stance: I play a certain way, and that's the only way to play. Don't do it, and you're playing wrong. People have scorpion decks that bid low for dishonor, or decks that don't rely on expensive conflict characters. They've had success with it. They're not saying it's the only way to play Scorpion. Follow their lead.

Whatever dude.

Na it's not my stance. I didn't say dishonor scorp is not viable and I am talking about decks with no expensive conflict characters all the time, as a matter of fact the only character I mentioned is Adept of Shadows at 2 fate.

Read my post again. Fk it I will quote it cause I know you are too lazy:

"I know it is one of , if not the best way to play Scorpion period". "One of" dude it means it's not the only way.

I do not play Lion a certain way. Lion was designed a certain way, the way that makes strategy proposed by you unviable. I guess you are conceding this argument because you didn't respond to anything I brought up on that. I mean it is hard to argue with what I said either way.

I don't said you can't do that, **** I say do that! Maybe you will find a gem but what is much more probable you will find a piece of old, dry bull crap.

You know, this is how wars start in Rokugan. ?

Where is the local magistrate to sort this out?

Just now, LordBlunt said:

You know, this is how wars start in Rokugan. ?

idk about wars and Rokugan... but if it doesn't chill out it can result in accounts, and being banned :\

28 minutes ago, shosuko said:

idk about wars and Rokugan... but if it doesn't chill out it can result in accounts, and being banned :\

The correct word is... Censured.

Then maybe expulsion.

I started testing Aged Crone, just 5 matches until now.. I just play her twice, one time to get the military bonus of the stronghold and another to attack unopposed (I could brake the province but didn't have 1 fate for Banzai), the other times it become stuck in my hand.

My inititial thought is that is difficult to find the right moment to play it. As the Lion standard play is swarm I usually find myself behind in fate resource, Lion have charge and shugenja as economy cards but other decks usually passes first and have more ways to gain fate, even more now with new cards like embrace the void. The dynamic of game is changing, is getting slower with provinces like public forum that delays the game. Anyway in turn 1 she don't worth being played and around turn 3 with the fate on rings the situatuation I've found is my foe having 2-4 fates in conflict phase. I've been in the situation we are arguing when I used FGG and have it on my hand in next turn, but I didn't find a good use of it. Maybe the best scenario is if I am attacking the stronghold with a great swarm so I didn't need to play cards from hand to win. Lion conflict needs to be very cheap to run well, and I think the slot she occupies costs too much, she don't seems to have a good synergy with other cards in early and midgame, I'll keep testing it but I feel that if she fits in a competitive deck it should be 1 copy, 2 at max.

4 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

I started testing Aged Crone, just 5 matches until now.. I just play her twice, one time to get the military bonus of the stronghold and another to attack unopposed (I could brake the province but didn't have 1 fate for Banzai), the other times it become stuck in my hand.

Thanks for that. Was planning to put 3 of her for my matches tomorrow and currently even the 3 FGG sometimes get stuck in my hand as well from my previous matches. Since she is too situational then I may cut her down to 2.

3 hours ago, L5RBr said:

I started testing Aged Crone, just 5 matches until now.. I just play her twice, one time to get the military bonus of the stronghold and another to attack unopposed (I could brake the province but didn't have 1 fate for Banzai), the other times it become stuck in my hand.

My inititial thought is that is difficult to find the right moment to play it. As the Lion standard play is swarm I usually find myself behind in fate resource, Lion have charge and shugenja as economy cards but other decks usually passes first and have more ways to gain fate, even more now with new cards like embrace the void. The dynamic of game is changing, is getting slower with provinces like public forum that delays the game. Anyway in turn 1 she don't worth being played and around turn 3 with the fate on rings the situatuation I've found is my foe having 2-4 fates in conflict phase. I've been in the situation we are arguing when I used FGG and have it on my hand in next turn, but I didn't find a good use of it. Maybe the best scenario is if I am attacking the stronghold with a great swarm so I didn't need to play cards from hand to win. Lion conflict needs to be very cheap to run well, and I think the slot she occupies costs too much, she don't seems to have a good synergy with other cards in early and midgame, I'll keep testing it but I feel that if she fits in a competitive deck it should be 1 copy, 2 at max.

Kinda sounds like what I was saying all along. But hey it is 5 matches sample size. I will be testing her for whole weekend to get some experience with her but we will never truly know until after she comes out(other than she probably won't be 3 of). There might be some weird combination of cards/deck type that makes her good.

Being too low impact for the cost/not really stopping anything/being too situational are the first things that would prevent her from being relevant tho.

You could play her if you want to run For Shame and you need another courtier but then she has anti synergy with it.

5 hours ago, L5RBr said:

I started testing Aged Crone, just 5 matches until now.. I just play her twice, one time to get the military bonus of the stronghold and another to attack unopposed (I could brake the province but didn't have 1 fate for Banzai), the other times it become stuck in my hand.

Why would you play Crone to attack unopposed if you didn't have the fate to pay for Banzai?

What did you take out for Crone and would that have helped you in that situation more?

Playing any card at the wrong time is going to let bad results. Should the Phoenix player that ran their clan champ out alone vs Crab draw any conclusions about Tsukune being bad when she gets killed by Way of the Crab? Of course not.

Be careful that you're not setting yourself up to taint your own results by forcing Crone in bad situations.

57 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Why would you play Crone to attack unopposed if you didn't have the fate to pay for Banzai?

What did you take out for Crone and would that have helped you in that situation more?

Playing any card at the wrong time is going to let bad results. Should the Phoenix player that ran their clan champ out alone vs Crab draw any conclusions about Tsukune being bad when she gets killed by Way of the Crab? Of course not.

Be careful that you're not setting yourself up to taint your own results by forcing Crone in bad situations.

Way of Crab, seriously? Don't take me for a fool..

I attacked with her to take out Hotaru with the void ring..

1 hour ago, L5RBr said:

Way of Crab, seriously? Don't take me for a fool..

I attacked with her to take out Hotaru with the void ring..

I wanted to say that you probably did it to get off a void ring on some important character but I figured it would be better if you responded yourself xD

So I guess if the crone was any other one drop like Tattooed Wanderer or Steward of Law she would have taken a province as well?

Do you remember what you cut for her or you just build the whole conflict deck from bottom way up?

edit: xD

35 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I wanted to say that you probably did it to get off a void ring on some important character but I figured it would be better if you responded yourself xD

So I guess if the crone was any other one drop like Tattooed Wanderer or Steward of Law she would have taken a province as well?

Do you remember what you cut for her or you just build the whole conflict deck from bottom way up?

Yes, Steward.

1 hour ago, L5RBr said:

Way of Crab, seriously? Don't take me for a fool..

I attacked with her to take out Hotaru with the void ring..

I don't. The example wasn't made to suggest you would do that, only to illustrate the context in which you play the card will help shape your overall opinion of it. If you're not playing a card at the best time then there is no reason to expect good results.

So you attack unopposed to void Hotaru......... To me that seems like a a little extra value out of Crone as Lion didn't previously have a cheap conflict character. Why would you need to play Banzai there? I mean sure a province break is great, but, spending 1 fate to make sure Hotaru isn't around the next turn is already good.

45 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I don't. The example wasn't made to suggest you would do that, only to illustrate the context in which you play the card will help shape your overall opinion of it. If you're not playing a card at the best time then there is no reason to expect good results.

So you attack unopposed to void Hotaru......... To me that seems like a a little extra value out of Crone as Lion didn't previously have a cheap conflict character. Why would you need to play Banzai there? I mean sure a province break is great, but, spending 1 fate to make sure Hotaru isn't around the next turn is already good.

Yes but you presumed I was playing her wrong, why? Do you would have made something like that? I respect you and presume don't, I never played against you and for this reason I'll not underestimate you.

Listen I'm not trying to convince anyone Crone is good or bad, In fact I agreed with you that in some situation she can be a npe, I just wanted to share my first thoughts after actually playing her a couple of times, cause in the community we tend to discuss and rate cards even before playing, what is normal. And as I've said, it was Just my first impressions, maybe she can prove to be better than I thought, we are getting lots of cards, and they true value will only appear playing..

25 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Yes but you presumed I was playing her wrong, why? Do you would have made something like that? I respect you and presume don't, I never played against you and for this reason I'll not underestimate you.

Listen I'm not trying to convince anyone Crone is good or bad, In fact I agreed with you that in some situation she can be a npe, I just wanted to share my first thoughts after actually playing her a couple of times, cause in the community we tend to discuss and rate cards even before playing, what is normal. And as I've said, it was Just my first impressions, maybe she can prove to be better than I thought, we are getting lots of cards, and they true value will only appear playing..

Well if you had planned to attack military to break a province, then you would have left yourself the 2 fate you needed to play both Crone and Banzai.

If you only had 1 fate to work with then you know that all you can get is the void ring and unopposed honor...........which is good.

It sounded like you were stating a 1 fate unopposed void ring sleaze was bad because you couldn't break the province. Is it optimal, no? but it's still good

My concern is that you inflated your expectations based on your comments and it would lead you to a false conclusion about what, imo, is a strong card.

I'm sure I was reading too much into it. My apologies.