What rule or where in rules does it say flesh rippers can't use their champion upgrade to add Ravos. I understand why ghost knights could add maro, but not ardus. But i dont understand why flesh rippers cant have one full block of Ravos. I can't find a rule that disputes this either...

Maybe I'm wrong, but Ravos upgrade is an upgrade for a siege unit and Flesh Rippers are cavalry.

39 minutes ago, Athelin said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but Ravos upgrade is an upgrade for a siege unit and Flesh Rippers are cavalry.

Yep. As indicated by the siege icon in the lower left of the upgrade card.

The castle symbol is siege unit requirement.

So ravos can't be added to berserkers?

1 hour ago, Curlycross said:

So ravos can't be added to berserkers?

Correct, much like Aliana cannot be added to archers.

Berserkers have a siege slot at 3x3

33 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Berserkers have a siege slot at 3x3

That's not the issue, the issue is his card has a siege unit requirement (castle + faction symbol). IIRC he is also a champ, not a heavy upgrade.

55 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Berserkers have a siege slot at 3x3

And Ravos is not a siege upgrade. He is a champion upgrade for a siege unit.

Complicated but makes sense.

Just now, Ywingscum said:

Complicated but makes sense.

It's as easy as matching the pictures.

Ahh, havnt seen the actual upgrade cards yet, so this gives precedence for a golem hero or other such siege heroes in the future. To be honest I can't see much reason you would want Ravos embedded anyway.

At 4 trays or more, Ravos can give a unit of Spined Threshers Precise 1 on top of their Brutal 1, and with five wounds each they can take a few incidental bites before he gets into range for his auto wound ability.

Ravos in ST is an amazing way to send out wounds to those around it. If Ravos could go in Flesh Rippers and you had Kethra, you could be dishing out 2-3 wounds each round.

So question, up in flames says 'after end phase' so we are curious what that means for units that armor up in a round. Is after end phase still part of that round or is it its own entity outside the time and space of game interactions?

32 minutes ago, Jukey said:

So question, up in flames says 'after end phase' so we are curious what that means for units that armor up in a round. Is after end phase still part of that round or is it its own entity outside the time and space of game interactions?

That's funny. As far as I can tell, there is nothing that states when a round ends. You would expect to read that the round ends at the end of the end phase, but that's never spelled out. Good question.

1 hour ago, Jukey said:

So question, up in flames says 'after end phase' so we are curious what that means for units that armor up in a round. Is after end phase still part of that round or is it its own entity outside the time and space of game interactions?

I feel like they said that, as it would be unclear whether you program dials first otherwise if start? No clue. I'd probably say modifiers gone though but this is a real legit question.

7 hours ago, Jukey said:

So question, up in flames says 'after end phase' so we are curious what that means for units that armor up in a round. Is after end phase still part of that round or is it its own entity outside the time and space of game interactions?

Hmm...sounds to me like "After the End Phase" = "Before the Command Phase." Here's what the rules reference says about the End Phase:

Quote

31 End Phase
During the End Phase, the first player casts all the tokens in the energy pool, then increases the round counter by one and passes it to the other player; that player is now the first player. The number on the round counter indicates the round number for the next round.

I think I agree with Darthain that any armor bonuses are removed prior to the onslaught of the relentless inferno. Good to be Waiqar - my troops never armor up anyway. Now Daqan will know what it feels like to be lowly mortals... oh wait, they are mortal - we're the immortal ones...doh.

I ran into a question against myself. Ravos' ability says before each end phase. To me that COULD mean any time after activation. Thoughts? The situation I had was this... I could have used his ability right at the start and killed the last DK and then moved, but I felt I couldn't do that so I had to charge into the DK and kill him that way, because of this at the end phase portion (which I just did his ability after all his actions were done) he had to endure a wound to himself.

Thoughts? Can Ravos use his ability any time before the end of the phase, since it says "Before each end phase..." or is it only right before the end phase?

34 minutes ago, Curlycross said:

I ran into a question against myself. Ravos' ability says before each end phase. To me that COULD mean any time after activation. Thoughts? The situation I had was this... I could have used his ability right at the start and killed the last DK and then moved, but I felt I couldn't do that so I had to charge into the DK and kill him that way, because of this at the end phase portion (which I just did his ability after all his actions were done) he had to endure a wound to himself.

Thoughts? Can Ravos use his ability any time before the end of the phase, since it says "Before each end phase..." or is it only right before the end phase?

it isn't during the activation phase, so no, that needs to end first. It is a segue.

4 hours ago, Curlycross said:

I ran into a question against myself. Ravos' ability says before each end phase. To me that COULD mean any time after activation. Thoughts? The situation I had was this... I could have used his ability right at the start and killed the last DK and then moved, but I felt I couldn't do that so I had to charge into the DK and kill him that way, because of this at the end phase portion (which I just did his ability after all his actions were done) he had to endure a wound to himself.

Thoughts? Can Ravos use his ability any time before the end of the phase, since it says "Before each end phase..." or is it only right before the end phase?

Before effects interrupt and happen immediately before the given event. A Before the End Phase effect would happen immediately before the End Phase was going to begin.

On 11/25/2017 at 0:07 AM, Parakitor said:

Hmm...sounds to me like "After the End Phase" = "Before the Command Phase." Here's what the rules reference says about the End Phase:

I think I agree with Darthain that any armor bonuses are removed prior to the onslaught of the relentless inferno. Good to be Waiqar - my troops never armor up anyway. Now Daqan will know what it feels like to be lowly mortals... oh wait, they are mortal - we're the immortal ones...doh.

On 11/25/2017 at 5:12 PM, rowdyoctopus said:

Before effects interrupt and happen immediately before the given event. A Before the End Phase effect would happen immediately before the End Phase was going to begin.

I did a deep dive into timing rules for this based on @rowdyoctopus 's comment. The short answer is that this information is covered by the rules.

31 End Phase

During the End Phase, the first player casts all the tokens in the energy pool, then increases the round counter by one and passes it to the other player; that player is now the first player. The number on the round counter indicates the round number for the next round.

69 Round

A game round consists of three phases resolved in the following order: Command Phase, Activation Phase, and End Phase

1. Players use a round counter to track the current round; the current round number is equal to the number shown in the window of the round counter.
2. The first player increases the round counter by one during each End Phase before the next round begins.
3. The game is over at the end of the eight round

83 Timing

85.8 An "after" event occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

23 Defend

Defend is a modifier. When a unit performs an ability with a defend modifier, that unit's defense value increases by the amount indicated in the defend icon.

1. The effects of the defend modifier take affect when the command tool is revealed, and the effect remains for the duration of the round.
2. If a unit has one or more figure upgrades, those figures also receive the benefits of the defend modifier.

---

So, to synthesize these rules:

1. The Round ends after the End Phase, as that is the last listed component of a round.
2. The Defend modifier lasts for the duration of the round, not until the end of the End Phase (meaning that if the round is extended somehow, a Defend modifier continues to be in effect).
3. An "after" effect does not create a new timing outside of the normal round sequence. It occurs during the current round immediately after the End Phase , meaning that it occurs before the round actually ends.
   1. This is the same as would be the case as an "after" effect that occurred after the Command or Activation phase: it occurs during the current round immediately after the stated phase.

Therefore, the Defend modifier applies to damage dealt after the End Phase.

Does anyone feel that I missed steps or made logical mistakes in synthesizing this answer?

I think you summed it up very well, seeing it all in rules format makes sense now. Thank you for doing the homework