Could Bossk use his ability after the Harpooned condition is triggered? They look like they resolve at the same point in the attack sequence, after determining that the target was hit. Could you then trigger harpoon for the damage card then split the crit into two hits with Bossk? Am I missing something?

It is currently unclear and needs FAQ.

I think it all hinges on who actually controls the (negative) effect of Harpooned:

• If it's controlled by the attacker (which can be argued because the attacker was the source of the card in the first place), then the attacker can choose the order in which it's resolved.
• If it's controlled by the defender (which can be argued because it's equipped to the defender and uses a lot of "you" language), then Bossk's ability and Harpooned resolve in initiative order.

Of course, we don't have a clear answer on who controls "Harpooned," so this variety of question comes up a lot. "Does Harpooned trigger against TLT attacks that have a critical result? Can Bossk trigger harpooned then cancel the crit? Can Wampa trigger it, then cancel dice to deal a damage card?"

2 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I think it all hinges on who actually controls the (negative) effect of Harpooned:

• If it's controlled by the attacker (which can be argued because the attacker was the source of the card in the first place), then the attacker can choose the order in which it's resolved.
• If it's controlled by the defender (which can be argued because it's equipped to the defender and uses a lot of "you" language), then Bossk's ability and Harpooned resolve in initiative order.

Of course, we don't have a clear answer on who controls "Harpooned," so this variety of question comes up a lot. "Does Harpooned trigger against TLT attacks that have a critical result? Can Bossk trigger harpooned then cancel the crit? Can Wampa trigger it, then cancel dice to deal a damage card?"

I am inclined towards the second option, that it depends on initiative. Since it is pretty clear to me that the defender resolves the harpoon effect.

If I was "King of X-Wing" I would rule it that any cancel effect happens first. So Bossk, TLT, Wampa, and any other similar effects cancel the crit before it's able to trigger Harpooned.

I think that's also a potentially reasonable interpretation with the RAW but it's a far from definitive rules situation at present.

Also, Bossk's effect happens before many other things: Draw Their Fire, Xizor’s ability, and R4-D6. One more argument is that when you encounter the word "uncanceled" (about dice result), it means that all possibilities to cancel that result are already gone (e. g. TLT).

I expect, based on what many people believe to be the intent of the " Harpooned! " condition, to see an (eventual) FAQ which forces " Harpooned! " to be resolved after the compare results step and before the deal damage step (after answer yes to the sub-step after Step 6iv and before Step 7i; timing chart ) so that it, essentially, resolves "after, after being hit by an attack."

However, as it currently stands, initiative will matter and I must agree with @chrisrivers that it is quite clear the " Harpooned! " condition is the defender's ability to resolve as the card starts with "When you are hit by an attack" and in X-Wing "you" determines who owns the trigger and who is resolving the ability. In such a way; should the attacker be Bossk and the defender have the " Harpooned! " condition (and only one kaboom result was rolled), Bossk would need the defender to have initiative in order to have " Harpooned! " resolve before he triggers his ability. If Bossk has initiative, in this scenario, he would have to cancel the kaboom and add two hit results before the " Harpooned! " condition looks for uncancelled kaboom results. This order is due to the fact that, in the current version of the FAQ (and it's been this way for a long time), Section 5, page 23's second Q&A reads:

" Q: If both players have effects that resolve at the same time (or from the same trigger), which player resolves their abilities first?

A: The player with initiative resolves all abilities he would like to resolve, then the other player resolves all abilities he would like to resolve."

If Bossk has initiative and would rather have the " Harpooned! " condition resolve, he may elect to not resolve his ability. In this case no critical results are cancelled, no hit results are added, and the defender then resolves the " Harpooned! " condition due to the uncancelled critical hit result. An additional note of reference: Bossk may choose to not resolve his ability due to the "may" on his card. The " Harpooned! " ability must resolve due to the lack of any "may" context (I mention it only due to the FAQ saying "he would like to resolve." in the clarification, you don't get the choice with " Harpooned! "). If, however, a game effect allowed the defender to cancel 1 kaboom result after being hit by an attack - so it has the same timing window as " Harpooned! " - they would be able to choose to resolve that ability first and then attempt to resolve the " Harpooned! "

For reference:

Standard comment hoping FFG will notice and fix their spelling: The correct English spelling for the word "cancelled" is with two L's. There is no accepted spelling of the word "uncancelled" as it is not a valid English word, however if you choose to use it (as it is in the day-to-day vernacular) it should be spelt just like "cancelled" but with the "un" prefix. FFG, in all cases in Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures cards, spells it with only one L: "uncanceled" and it drives me absolutely bonkers.

2 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Standard comment hoping FFG will notice and fix their spelling: The correct English spelling for the word "cancelled" is with two L's. There is no accepted spelling of the word "uncancelled" as it is not a valid English word, however if you choose to use it (as it is in the day-to-day vernacular) it should be spelt just like "cancelled" but with the "un" prefix. FFG, in all cases in Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures cards, spells it with only one L: "uncanceled" and it drives me absolutely bonkers.

Some beg to disagree with you:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/canceled-vs-cancelled/

20 hours ago, muribundi said:

Some beg to disagree with you:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/canceled-vs-cancelled/

This is the rules forum, if no one begged to disagree with me I would become extremely concerned

16 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

This is the rules forum, if no one begged to disagree with me I would be come extremely concerned

In fact, I'm not even native English speaking... I just looked out over the Internet to see why they would have done so... and FFG being american, I'm not surprised they used it that way.

So, does the FAQ on the Harpooned! condition change this interaction? The 2nd sentence leads me to believe Bossk gets to trigger Harpooned! and then cancel a crit for two hits.

New FAQ:

When an attack hits a ship (after "Compare Results," before "Deal Damage") with the Harpooned! condition and has 1 or more uncanceled <crit> results, the condition resolves at that time (see "Timing Chart for Performing an Attack" on page 8). Note that this occurs even if those <crit> results are subsequently canceled, as in the case of Twin Laser Turret, Ion Cannon, Jamming Beam, etc, but not if the ? results are altered or removed at an earlier step, such as by Heavy Laser Cannon's effect.

31 minutes ago, chrisrivers said:

So, does the FAQ on the Harpooned! condition change this interaction? The 2nd sentence leads me to believe Bossk gets to trigger Harpooned! and then cancel a crit for two hits.

New FAQ:

When an attack hits a ship (after "Compare Results," before "Deal Damage") with the Harpooned! condition and has 1 or more uncanceled <crit> results, the condition resolves at that time (see "Timing Chart for Performing an Attack" on page 8). Note that this occurs even if those <crit> results are subsequently canceled, as in the case of Twin Laser Turret, Ion Cannon, Jamming Beam, etc, but not if the ? results are altered or removed at an earlier step, such as by Heavy Laser Cannon's effect.

So the way the new FAQ is worded basically anything that changes or cancels the result before Step 6.iv in the Attack timing chart means that Harpooned won't trigger, such as HLCs effect that happens at the start of step 3.

TLT and all the other weapons that trigger from "hitting" the target, i.e. there is at least 1 uncancelled hit/crit trigger in step 6.iv as well. As such harpoon manages to trigger and resolve happily.

With Bossk his trigger point is also in step 6.iv of the timing chart, there is ambiguity as to whether he converts the crit to 2 hits at this stage or later on in step 7 but suffice to say harpooned will trigger regardless of when bossks damage swap happens.

That HLC line is kind of more confusing than helpful. HLC crits aren't canceled, they're turned. The whole addition of the line seems like a red herring.

Anyhow, I'd view Bossk as an effect which subsequently cancels crits, along side Ion Cannon, as an effect which can be triggered after Harpooned! has triggered.

Considering Bossk's FAQ flies in the face of the timing chart it's pretty shaky to say there's much timing to it. Since it "happens before Xizor & Draw Their Fire" I suppose there's no interaction in placing other abilities before it between step 6 & 7.

His FAQ ruling doesn't make sense to me. It should depend on initiative and trigger windows.

Edit: with the new TLT ruling I'd say it should trigger the Harpooned condition because there was a crit that went through. "When an attack hits a ship (after "Compare Results," before "Deal Damage") with the Harpooned! condition and has 1 or more uncanceled ? results, the condition resolves at that time"

1 hour ago, D00kies said:

Considering Bossk's FAQ flies in the face of the timing chart it's pretty shaky to say there's much timing to it. Since it "happens before Xizor & Draw Their Fire" I suppose there's no interaction in placing other abilities before it between step 6 & 7.

He does not fly in the face of the timing chart. Compare results happen in a separate step to suffering damage.

Bossk happens when the hit is called.

DtF and Xizor happen when suffering damage.

Nothing about this isn't precisely in order.

"Prince Xizor’s ability triggers when he is hit by an attack"

"When a ship is hit by Bossk’s attack"

How is that supposed to be interpreted differently? They're both after step 6 and before step 7.

Edit: are you saying it happens DURING step 7, when you're removing shields and applying damage cards? Because the FAQ explicitly states that his ability triggers when he is hit @InquisitorM Would it be a delayed effect then?? Triggers during the hit and resolves when applying damage? It's terrible.

It triggers when he's hit, but it resolves when damage is suffered. Bossk triggers and resolves before damage is suffered.

The trigger and the resolution of it can have different timings.

My understanding of the new FAQ is that the sequence is now:

6. “Compare Results” step
    i. Resolve abilities that occur “at the start of the ‘Compare Results’ step”
    ii. Cancel pairs of hit and evade results
    iii. Cancel pairs of crit and evade results
    iv. Determine whether the defender is hit by the attack or the attack misses

Did the attack hit?
Yes

6.5 NEW step
    i. If there is a crit result, resolve any "Harpooned !" condition cards on the defender
    ii. Resove capabilities that mofify dice when the attack hits

7. “Deal Damage” step
    i. Remove shield tokens to cancel hit results
    ii. Remove shield tokens to cancel crit results
    iii. The defender is dealt facedown damage cards for remaining hit results
    iv. The defender is dealt faceup damage cards for remaining crit results

Thus Bossk hability would resolve in 6.5 ii (same as TLT or ion weapons)

2 hours ago, D00kies said:

"Prince Xizor’s ability triggers when he is hit by an attack"

Edit: are you saying it happens DURING step 7, when you're removing shields and applying damage cards? Because the FAQ explicitly states that his ability triggers when he is hit @InquisitorM Would it be a delayed effect then?? Triggers during the hit and resolves when applying damage? It's terrible.

I suggest you go read Xizor again in the new FAQ...

But they haven't "fixed" Draw their Fire and Selflessness...

I d say that when you resolve Bossk first you lose the crit and lose your harpooning chance.

I think bossk resolves first. This is the first action you take after rolling attack and defence... You look at the results. Then you deceide wether you cancel the crit or you use it for the harpoon. Since you need that critical to activate the harpoon condition you have to chose. If you remove you crit. It s gone.

You suffer a crit. Harpoons trigger. Bossk says you changed your crit to two hits. No crit suffered. So no harpoon.

Either way...

It Will Be a crit (with effect)+ 1 effect damage( harpoon) +1aoe

Or

Two damage .... With whatever death brings

And pushing thé boundaries: 2damage from crit changed + 1harpoon effect + 1aoe.

I much rather opt for the effect off the crit as it is fun, instead of fiddling for greed

But i do understand your questions.

May the resolution Be with you.

7 hours ago, D00kies said:

Edit: are you saying it happens DURING step 7, when you're removing shields and applying damage cards? Because the FAQ explicitly states that his ability triggers when he is hit @InquisitorM Would it be a delayed effect then?? Triggers during the hit and resolves when applying damage? It's terrible.

The effect happens during step 6 when the hit is called. However, the effect that happens is that the ship suffering damage changes. Since suffering damage happens in step 7, all the dice are still there at the end of step 6.

In short, these cards do not change the timing of damage, only the subject.

5 hours ago, Cartchan said:

6.5 NEW step i. If there is a crit result, resolve any "Harpooned !" condition cards on the defender ii. Resove capabilities that mofify dice when the attack hits

No. What the FAQ tells us is that Harpooned! triggers when a hit is called and there is a crit in the pool. Cancelling that crit will not change the fact that there was a crit in the pool when the hit was called, so secondary weapons cancelling dice will not prevent Harpooned! from triggering. This implication causes issues as X-Wing usually runs the other way (Navigator combos, for example), but that's what we've been served.

20 minutes ago, D34d guru said:

I d say that when you resolve Bossk first you lose the crit and lose your harpooning chance.

See above. According to the new FAQ, both effects will happen. TLT cancelling dice does not stop Harpooned! from triggering as its condition was met. Bossk will not stop this condition from being met either.

That said, harpooned will automatically trigger before you ever get the choice to Bossk anyway Because Harpooned! is not a choice and Bossk is), so it doesn't make any real difference.

11 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

No. What the FAQ tells us is that Harpooned! triggers when a hit is called and there is a crit in the pool. Cancelling that crit will not change the fact that there was a crit in the pool when the hit was called, so secondary weapons cancelling dice will not prevent Harpooned! from triggering. This implication causes issues as X-Wing usually runs the other way (Navigator combos, for example), but that's what we've been served.

Sorry but I can't see how we are saying something different.

We agree that after determining if the attacks hits, you have to check if harpooned triggers before doing any dice results modification.

25 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

We agree that after determining if the attacks hits, you have to check if harpooned triggers before doing any dice results modification.

I never said that. Why a rule works is just as important as what the correct result is because that's how people learn how the rules work . Your imaginary step does not reflect either how the rules work or why the result is the way it is.

Harpooned! is not 'checked'. It either triggers or it doesn't and it doesn't matter if modifications happened first.

There is no rule that Harpooned! happens before die mods. You can, in fact, cancel all dice from a TLT/Ion Cannon shot before resolving Harpooned!. This is in direct contravention of your proposed sequence. Hence, the sequence is incorrect.

Quote

Note that this occurs even if those [Crit] results are subsequently canceled, as in the case of Twin Laser Turret,

1

So I can hit with a crit, cancel all dice with TLT first , then trigger Harpooned!. Both things have the same trigger so I can choose the order.

7 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

So I can hit with a crit, cancel all dice with TLT first , then trigger Harpooned!. Both things have the same trigger so I can choose the order.

I get your point and you are right, determining if Harpooned must be resolved happens at one point of time, resolving it can happen at another point of time.

But I would point out that the attacker resolves TLT and the defender resolves Harpooned. So you (the attacker) can not choose which to resolve first.

1 minute ago, Cartchan said:

But I would point out that the attacker resolves TLT and the defender resolves Harpooned. So you (the attacker) can not choose which to resolve first.

Fair. I don't own the **** thing yet. I've only been shot by it!

And this whole thing is still in direct contravention of how the game treats dials (changing a dial changes what counts as having been revealed).

So it's all a clusterfrack in the end.