Greetings L5R Beta Testers,

Beta Rules Update v3.0 and the Mirumoto Two Sword School preview are up!

You can find both here .

3 minutes ago, FFG Max Brooke said:

Greetings L5R Beta Testers,

Beta Rules Update v3.0 and the Mirumoto Two Sword School preview are up!

That is incredibly disappointing.

"A character who is not Incapacitated may spend 1 Void point to voluntarily suffer a critical strike instead of defending, representing the character allowing themself to be struck for a tactical advantage.”

I didn't understand why would someone do that.

1 minute ago, Doji Meshou said:

That is incredibly disappointing.

If you mean the mechanics and theme, I'd be very curious to hear you expand on why, and the problems you're having with it. If you mean the name, your feedback has already been noted, and will certainly be taken into account as part of the discussion during which school names are finalized!

2 minutes ago, RenanBarcellos said:

"A character who is not Incapacitated may spend 1 Void point to voluntarily suffer a critical strike instead of defending, representing the character allowing themself to be struck for a tactical advantage.”

I didn't understand why would someone do that.

A Big Bad Tetsubo is about to crush you, dealing 8 Fatigue, and pushing you into Incapacitated; instead of trying to avoid it, you brace for impact and end up with a concussion (Crit created Injury), but you still can fight for another turn.

1 minute ago, FFG Max Brooke said:

If you mean the mechanics and theme, I'd be very curious to hear you expand on why, and the problems you're having with it. If you mean the name, your feedback has already been noted, and will certainly be taken into account as part of the discussion during which school names are finalized!

Thanks for your quick and thoughtful response! It makes me feel incredibly good to know you folks are taking feedback like this into account among the other, more important mechanical feedback.

I'm talking exclusively about the name. I think it's a let-down for all the reasons I outlined before.

I love the mechanics. You knocked it out of the park.

Yeah, this is probably first implementation of Miurmoto bushi that makes me happy about focusing on "two swords" PHILOSOPHY instead of literally fighting with two swords.

Just now, WHW said:

Yeah, this is probably first implementation of Miurmoto bushi that makes me happy about focusing on "two swords" PHILOSOPHY instead of literally fighting with two swords.

One hundred percent agreed. On top of which, it's easy to explain, easy to understand, and easy to use, which dual wielding almost never is. It might be my favorite bushi School implementation to date.

2 minutes ago, WHW said:

A Big Bad Tetsubo is about to crush you, dealing 8 Fatigue, and pushing you into Incapacitated; instead of trying to avoid it, you brace for impact and end up with a concussion (Crit created Injury), but you still can fight for another turn.

Thanks!

I think it's slight odd, but i really like the theme around Fatigue.

About the Mirumoto School, i really liked the mechanics, they are really good. But it made me think that Shiba Guardian needed more love.

It also allows you to call your opponents FOOLS becasue they activated your trap card.

...

On a more serious note, TRAP option is some very interesting piece of design - while it's incredibly powerful, it also doesn't scale naturally at all, and you actively need to look for more and more powerful Techniques to make the most out of it, or the extra TN decreases will go to waste. I think it's very clever.

1 minute ago, WHW said:

It also allows you to call your opponents FOOLS becasue they activated your trap card.

...

On a more serious note, TRAP option is some very interesting piece of design - while it's incredibly powerful, it also doesn't scale naturally at all, and you actively need to look for more and more powerful Techniques to make the most out of it, or the extra TN decreases will go to waste. I think it's very clever.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (additional carrots for emphasis)

I could see the kusarigama having the trap option for using the chain to bind someone and/or their weapons, but it would need to be some technique or higher TN roll instead of a straight choice.

"Way of the Dragon (School Ability): Once per round during a duel or skirmish..."

Uhhhh... I'm assuming you meant once per SCENE, right? Lowerinh the Tn to attack by your school rank (basically a garenteed hit)/ making your enemy have "attack adversity" equal to school rank (basically a garenteed miss at 5) has got to be a one time thing... right?

Quick take on the two swords technique / way of the Dragon:

”You cannot chose this weapon for attack actions until the start of your next turn.”

Since this happens during someone else’s turn, as a reaction to their attack, isn’t this limitation moot? You wouldn’t be able to attack at all until your next turn comes anyway... should it be “end of your next turn”?

New opportunity during an attack action:

“* Perform a Strike action with a readied weapon you have not used for an Attack action this turn.”

Theoretically you can 1) attack with katana, spend opportunity, 2) attack with wakizashi, spend opportunity 3) kick someone in the nuts (unarmed attack, which is a natural weapon so always considered ready)

13 minutes ago, RodentJoe said:

"Way of the Dragon (School Ability): Once per round during a duel or skirmish..."

Uhhhh... I'm assuming you meant once per SCENE, right? Lowerinh the Tn to attack by your school rank (basically a garenteed hit)/ making your enemy have "attack adversity" equal to school rank (basically a garenteed miss at 5) has got to be a one time thing... right?

Remember that rerolled dice has at least 50% chance of being a success again, and might even morph into an Explosive Success. While this will make using some of the high tier techniques that require TNs of 4 to activate somewhat annoying, it won't be nearly as oppressive against TN2 attacks like Strike, where it might end up being a slight damage reduction. By using it, you are also increasing a danger of being hit by a Crit, as there is a pretty noticeable chance that if you don't make opponent reroll into Success, you are making them reroll into Opportunities, which can be used to screw you over probably harder than just successes.

I like the representation of both the Trap and Ward for 2 weapon fighting. Often people assume having 2 weapons means you attack twice. You CAN attack twice, but typically one of your weapons is going to serve as a defensive measure while the other strikes. It doesn't have to be the same weapon each turn, but 2 weapons is primarily a defensive measure - not an offensive one.

I am concerned that the limit for the trap / ward "until the start of your next turn" fails as Franwax pointed out. Shouldn't this be "until the end of your next turn"

Also - if you trap / ward, does this prevent you from spending an opportunity to strike with Heart of the Dragon? That is a rank 6 technique so it should be great, but is that too great?

2 minutes ago, Soshi Nimue said:

Also - if you trap / ward, does this prevent you from spending an opportunity to strike with Heart of the Dragon? That is a rank 6 technique so it should be great, but is that too great?

It would prevent from using the second weapon to attack if the restriction were indeed until the end of the next turn. I'd call this fair game. Use the off-hand to ward or trap if your initiative is lower, or go for a dual strike if you act first (or chose to hold back on your technique when attacked to unleash double **** in retaliation)

So am I getting this right ? The first time a character’s fatigue exceeds their endurance, they do not immediately suffer a crit anymore. They are just incapacitated. The next time they are hit (if they did not recover since), they do suffer a normal critical strike with no +5 increase in severity as used to be the case, but they do fall unconscious.

Looks fine to me... this should end fights a bit faster too now that it’s easier to knock an adversary (or PC) out.

New critical strikes table helps too, but I would definitely add a row for when the severity is reduced below zero. As it is, it feels way too easy to destroy armors.

I also feel that Razor Edged weapons should inflict Bleeding on top of Wounded/Gravely Wounded - either for free, or for an extra Opportunity. Bleeding is insanely cool efffect that directly changes how you approach keeping dice; it also helps make Razor Edged weapons more in line with Otsuchi/Tetsubo power twins. I want to see Bleeding before Rank 3 and not necessarily coupled with Permanent Injuries. I'm unsure if critting is worth it now, if your opponent isn't **** bent on staying in one stance.

I also feel that the "+1 TN for each roll made in the scene" on Gravely Wounds is kinda clumsy, it will be a major pain to track. I'm also unsure if it should count retroactively rolls amde before aquiring the Condition.

Still think that "When Injured, a bad thing happens when you keep 3 strife, akin to Spiritual Backlash" would be coolest.

19 minutes ago, WHW said:

Still think that "When Injured, a bad thing happens when you keep 3 strife, akin to Spiritual Backlash" would be coolest.

The old wound reopens. Suffer the bleeding condition

If already bleeding... something else.

9 hours ago, WHW said:

A Big Bad Tetsubo is about to crush you, dealing 8 Fatigue, and pushing you into Incapacitated; instead of trying to avoid it, you brace for impact and end up with a concussion (Crit created Injury), but you still can fight for another turn.

Exactly. It gives you a response to high damage, low deadliness weapons.

Ah - you can no longer hide a wakizashi easily!

Which makes sense given the 'free draw/sheath for concealable weapons. It makes a knife actually worth having in an unexpected brawl I guess

Also, calming breath can't take you under half compromised or half incapacitated. A nice answer to the "I do caming breath for ten minutes before ending the scene" argument.

6 hours ago, WHW said:

I also feel that the "+1 TN for each roll made in the scene" on Gravely Wounds is kinda clumsy, it will be a major pain to track. I'm also unsure if it should count retroactively rolls made before acquiring the Condition.

Was wondering about that, too.
Keeping track of rolls made in a scene in case someone were to suffer a Gravely Wounded means more book keeping (but that's what "have made" would suppose).
I would rather go with tests made after the wound, representing the fact that it worsens as you push yourself too much.

Mirumoto Two Sword School's starting outfit says "daisho or wakizashi and any two melee weapons".
Isn't a katana a melee weapon ? Meaning you could go for second option, picking a katana and another weapon, thus ending up with daisho+another melee weapon ?

While I do think that stuff is starting to take shape, I also can't hush this strange feeling away that the rules are also getting crazy convoluted and confusing. When one of the basic arguments against the rules is that they are convoluted and confusing. The new Unmasking rules are a perfect example of this: resolving them was bad enough so far, but now even though the fix brought them closer to the intended end-result, it also created new and bewildering situations for everyone to enjoy: how doing something unmasking-y without Unmasking interacts with the mechanics and the narrative, some Unmasking options making no sense in certain (common) situations (Inappropriate Outburst while being alone, Panicked Flight from a scene of no importance), and the whole Unmasking getting too complicated with five-bazillion things to consider according to the rules. Fatigue is starting to suffer from the same with the new "defense" rules.

Like, I'm almost missing the old and silly Outbursts .

It sure feels a lot like playing Descent/Imperial Assault: assemble dice pool; spend fatigue; roll; modify; check range; spend surges on a bunch of options; deal damage.
Just that, here, it's not a dungeon crawler. It has the same mechanics outside combat, too.