Can someone please tell me why I would want this in my scopion deck! What am I missing?

1) Smoke and Mirrors. Make someone who isn't a Shinobi into a Shinobi.

2) Back-Alley Hideaway. Make someone who isn't a Scorpion (so, an out-of-clan Conflict character) a Scorpion, so they can sneak into a dark Alley for a later time.

3) Way of the Scorpion. In a Scorp-on-Scorp mirror match, you can make one of your out-of-clan Conflict characters a Scorpion, therefore immune to the effects of your opponent's WotScorp.

All of the Seal cards are situationally useful at best. The stat they give is the only direct benefit, and 1 mil or pol for 1 cost is bad. The value of these cards comes out only if there is also value in being a certain clan alignment or if the trait becomes useful. The traits don't do anything on their own, so what you need to do is look at card combos.

twinstarbmc covered a few card combos that work already, that is what you're looking for. At first I don't think the Scorpion seal is going to be worth playing but we'll see as the cards expand, and being Scorpion or being Shinobi means more.

Just now, twinstarbmc said:

1) Smoke and Mirrors. Make someone who isn't a Shinobi into a Shinobi.

2) Back-Alley Hideaway. Make someone who isn't a Scorpion (so, an out-of-clan Conflict character) a Scorpion, so they can sneak into a dark Alley for a later time.

3) Way of the Scorpion. In a Scorp-on-Scorp mirror match, you can make one of your out-of-clan Conflict characters a Scorpion, therefore immune to the effects of your opponent's WotScorp.

I saw smoke and mirrors,

Back Alley Hideaway? is that released yet?

Excellent point on the Scorp v Scorp WotScorp! I might encounter that very thing in tonights session

thanks

Its not released yet but you can see it here https://l5r.gamepedia.com/Back-Alley_Hideaway

Just now, Soshi Nimue said:

Its not released yet but you can see it here https://l5r.gamepedia.com/Back-Alley_Hideaway

Cool! Does that bring in the character without cost?

Just now, Fu Leng said:

Cool! Does that bring in the character without cost?

No. You pay all costs, and if you're taking the Action mid-Conflict, the character ONLY comes into play in your home.

thanks guys!

Step one, play seal of the scorpion on the opponent's 2 cost character to make them scorpion.

Step two, blackmail said 2 cost character

Step three, assassinate their character you now control

Step four, hide that character under Back-Alley Hideaway

Step Five, buy their character on your turn with Back-Alley Hideaway

Step Six, ???

Step 7, Profit

15 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Step one, play seal of the scorpion on the opponent's 2 cost character to make them scorpion.

Step two, blackmail said 2 cost character

Step three, assassinate their character you now control

Step four, hide that character under Back-Alley Hideaway

Step Five, buy their character on your turn with Back-Alley Hideaway

Step Six, ???

Step 7, Profit

Was there any clarification as to whether the characters placed under BAH are considered still in play? Because I'm pretty sure rules state you lose controlled characters when they leave play, so not sure if/how this interaction would work.

Seal of the Scorpion, Crane, and Phoenix don't cost any fate, I can see the promo cards. Neither does any other clan I've checked on Gamepedia.

As for what to do, if you can spare the space in a conflict deck: I imagine Seal combined with S&M (yeah, get them laughs out) would:

1) Make Hiroue really strong at pulling powerful characters into a conflict, only to abandon it alongside other shinobi.

2) Make 5+ fate characters easily use Watch Commander/ Spyglass on multiple conflicts in a round.

3) Limit the ability for Crane and Scorpion to irreversibly pull characters into fights they don't want.

4) Charge Shoju/ Hiroue into a military conflict, only to pull them out shortly afterwards.

It's nothing that Favorable Ground can't also do, but if you want to pull back a number of shinobi at once after an opponent over-commits, it makes sense.

14 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Was there any clarification as to whether the characters placed under BAH are considered still in play? Because I'm pretty sure rules state you lose controlled characters when they leave play, so not sure if/how this interaction would work.

Interrupt: When a (Scorpion symbol that won't copy over) character you control leaves play – attach that character to this holding facedown instead of placing it in its owner's discard pile.

Sounds like it works to me.

12 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Interrupt: When a (Scorpion symbol that won't copy over) character you control leaves play – attach that character to this holding facedown instead of placing it in its owner's discard pile.

Sounds like it works to me.

At least how I'm reading it, this comes across as a replacement in destination for the card, rather than actually replacing the fact that it would leave play...otherwise why would the bolded wording even be required? Suppose a Rules Inquiry wouldn't hurt on this one.

EDIT: Wasn't paying attention to the wording specifying the owner's discard pile (though I realize now that's where it would end up anyways when leaving play). Interesting.

Oh man, can you imagine pulling Liar out into the Hideaway and get a card- only to play him again next turn?

Sick, my friend.

EDIT: whoops. Yeah, there's probably much better use for it than just a hideaway for a Liar. Forgot that it sacrificed afterwards.

Good thing I took a look at the fiveringsdb page for it. Sure enough, dev rulings have already been issued. You can see them yourself here: https://fiveringsdb.com/card/back-alley-hideaway

Short answer is, yes they leave play but still attach to the holding. They're just facedown cards at that point, though the holding's controller can look at them any time. And yeah, even if it's your opponent's card, when you use BAH's action to play it, it goes into play in your control. Seems like this basically becomes permanent control, even for cards initially "stolen" using something like Blackmail.

I hate Scorpion even more now. (And by hate I mean really don't want to play against them.)

great discussion everyone! thanks

Do attachments on the character who is hidden away stay on that character?

I would just say this: it makes your character become a shinobi

In old 5R that could have been big deal in some arcs and I have great hopes for this trait. I expect hope for a shinobi based stronghold for the scorpion at some point.

This seal would than get really big

As traits become more important, there will be decks built around certain traits.

Giving a Scorpion the shinobi trait or a Crab the berserker trait opens up combos with other cards that are potentially very powerful.

It may not be there yet, but as more cards come out that target specific traits, you'll start to see the synergies available and the seals are going to be a part of those "trait decks" eventually.

I'm really excited for the Crab Berserker decks, if they are ever viable. If not, it is 1 less military strength than a fine katana and it offers potential synergies with a few great cards that I already want to run anyway. Is the 1 strength worth the trade? That's something worth testing for.