So I was playing around with statting out some stormtrooper variants and I decided to take a shot at statting out an elite unit: Vader's own infamous 501st stormtrooper legion.

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501st Stormtrooper Legion (minion)

all stats identical to regular stormtroopers unless otherwise noted

Skills (Group Only): Add Cool, Gunnery, Ranged (light), Resilience and Vigilance.

Abilities: Vader's fist (when making ranged attacks while engaged with an opponent, reduce the ranged modifier by 1).
Jedi killers (add 1 setback die to any opposed check to directly influence or affect 501st troopers with force powers).

As you see, it's not a radical change. I toyed with the idea of giving them a rank in Adversary, increase attributes or something like that, but I figured the're still storm troopers, just good ones. If they were that much better than the norm they'd probably be an elite unit, like storm commandos or death troopers or something like that, and for individual badassery there is the Stormtrooper Sergeant rival (to which you can simply add skills and abilities above to make a 501st Sergeant).

As for the skills, I simply added all the extras Snow-, Sand- and Scout troopers get, figuring the 501st should probably have enough cross training to serve as either. I did leave out Survival though as theyre still the guys who decided to not to camouflage their bright white armor on a forest moon. I also added Cool because... why not? Between that and Vigilance also being a group skill, the PCs will soon realize that the initiative gravy train has left them behind.

That alone should make them notably more dangerous than your average storm trooper, but they needed some flavor. Since I've played a jedi in our FaD campaign for a while now, I have a pretty good idea how to deal with storm troopers in combat; close with them and smack them with your saber, and try every trick in the book to stop them from disengaging. Or just mess with their heads until you are no longer the droids they are looking for. I bet Vader knows those tricks too. I bet the 501st has some training regimes to counter that, if only out of tradition.

The Vader's fist ability is basically Dynamic Fire without the strain cost (because minions can't voluntarily take strain). It gives them a nice bonus against Jedis and whatnot that are overly eager to close with them, but since they're using standard storm trooper equipment (ie mostly Ranged (heavy) weapons) they will still probably want to disengage and shoot. But of course, they do have the Ranged (light) skill as well. They might very well have blaster pistols to light up fools who get to close, or simply be balls to the walls awesome enough to bring a grenade to a fistfight .

Jedi killers in itself is not terribly useful, as it is a fairly measly Setback die, and only works on opposed checks. So using Move to slam a spaceship on their heads with a combat check still works. However, though you normally don't roll opposed checks for using Force powers on minions, I think this works a nice reminder that, with these guys, maybe sometimes you should. And with group skills like Discipline, Cool and Resilience that can turn out to be tricky. And if nothing else, it gives the a little more flavor.

So, opinions? Critique? Cookies?

I'm of the opinion that the 501st should be scary, even to experienced players.

I would go ahead and tack on Adversary 1.

Definitely give them a higher wound threshold. Probably 7 or 8.

They might have higher characteristics too, i.e. Brawn and Agility 4. After all, these are the best stormtroopers in the empire.

I like Jedi Killers, especiallly, since it gives them the opposed check they wouldn't normally get.

How about this: Vader's Fist - At the start of an encounter with 501st Stormtroopers, all opponents must make an average fear check.

For extra fun, give them Lethal Blows 2. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.

I Like the idea. I personally wouldn't add Adversary unless it was a sergeant. Also, I love the idea to use a Fear check and Lethal Blows.

I'm not going to improve their attributes. A regular minion trooper, even in the 501st, shouldn't be tougher than a veteran soldier. Same goes for wound threshold. Yes, they're the best regular stormtroopers, but they're still regular stormtroopers. Adversary could work, but is perhaps best left to the real elites, like Death troopers.

So I fiddled around some more, to make a different flavor of elites.

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Storm Commandos (minion)

all stats identical to stormtroopers unless otherwise noted

Skills (Group Only): Add Cool, Ranged (light) and Stealth

Talents: Ambush (Once per round while benefiting from cover, may make the Ambush maneuver. Add damage equal to Stealth skill to one hit of next successful combat check against a target within short range before the end of next turn)

Equipment: E-11 Blaster carbine (Ranged [Heavy]; Damage 9; Critical 3; Range [Medium]; Stun setting; multi-optic sight )
vibroknife (Melee; Damage 4; Critical 2; Engaged; Pierce 2, Vicious 1),
2 frag grenades (Ranged [Light]; Damage 8; Critical 4; Range [Short]; Blast 6, Limited Ammo 1),
Storm commando armor (+2 soak; vacuum sealed, integrated scanner), utility belt, extra reloads, explosives. Individuals or groups of two may be armed with E-11S sniper rifle (Ranged [Heavy]; Damage 10; Critical 3; Range [Extreme]; Accurate 1, Cumbersome 3, Pierce 2, Slow-Firing 1; scope)

Once again I didn't mess with the attributes, even though there might be more justification for it here. In the end, it didn't seem necessary. I visualized the storm commandos as stealthy saboteurs that strike from ambush, which is hopefully reflected in their stats. I considered including mechanics in their skills list to handle explosives, but I decided it would make them seem too much like engineers, and would probably be better handled by squadding them up with a NPC (an appropriately adjusted storm trooper sergeant for instance) and using the mission specialist formation.

Now, the central mechanic. Ambush is pretty damned powerful with a larger sized minion group, letting the storm commando unleash a devastating hail of fire at short range, but doing so it limits their tactical options. As they can't suffer strain to take an extra maneuver, they can't really use it in the same turn they move, take cover or even aim (judicious use of a Stormtrooper sergeant's Tactical Direction ability mitigates this of course). For the most part that means they are limited to using it when they manage to sneak very close and successfully ambush someone (not unlikely with stealth and cool as class skills) or when some unfortunate shmoe is unfortunate enough to be left standing within short range on subsequent turns. As they lack the abilities of the 501st, they have more problems dealing with who engage with them though, meaning that closing to short range in order to use the Ambush maneuver potentially leaves them vulnerable as well.

Their equipment reflects their purpose, and is pretty much standard fare for stormtroopers, albeit with a few attachments. With the inherent bonuses from the armor, the multi-optics sight, and the access to integrated scanners, the storm commandos should excel at seeing without being seen, maximizing their chances to stage an ambush. And while not the most terrifying weapon around, the sniper rifles seemed appropriate fire support.

EDIT: The blaster energy dampener attachment from Force and Destiny might also be appropriate, as it makes them harder to detect even while firing. Probably more useful on the sniper rifles rather than the carbines.

For one thing, I would say that Death troopers aren't minions--they're rivals. Just because they fight as a group most of the time doesn't automatically make them minions. The emperor's royal guard are each nemeses. If being the best <.1% of stormtroopers isn't justification for higher stats and/or wound threshold, I don't know what is. Assuming your players can stand up to normal stormtroopers, the 501st won't seem like anything special unless you make them a bigger threat. A couple nifty abilities beyond what regular stormtroopers have does not an elite trooper make, especially if said troopers get murdered by autofire before they can act.

There's already (semi) official rules for Storm Commandos, in the AoR Beta. Not really clear why they got cut. Here they are, if you want a look;

I think that elite minions should be short, yellow and funny

5 hours ago, Kirdan Kenobi said:

For one thing, I would say that Death troopers aren't minions--they're rivals. Just because they fight as a group most of the time doesn't automatically make them minions. The emperor's royal guard are each nemeses. If being the best <.1% of stormtroopers isn't justification for higher stats and/or wound threshold, I don't know what is. Assuming your players can stand up to normal stormtroopers, the 501st won't seem like anything special unless you make them a bigger threat. A couple nifty abilities beyond what regular stormtroopers have does not an elite trooper make, especially if said troopers get murdered by autofire before they can act.

My reasoning for the 501st is pretty much that they are quite dangerous enough. At 500ish earned XP, regular storm troopers are still a threat to the PCs in our regular campaign. Simply making cool and vigilance group skills gives them a better than average to beat the PCs initiative and unload on them with full, undamaged groups. It's a prospect that even has even the groups resident tanky soakmonster concerned.

But to make things clear, I don't see the 501st as elites in the sense that they're US Army Rangers or something liked that. They are a distinguished stormtrooper legion, but it's individual troopers probably do not stand head and shoulders above those of other legions. Sure, there's probably a hand picked platoon or even company that accompany Vader around that would refined into the very best by brutal natural selection.

As for Rivals vs Minions, there's definitely a point to making Storm Commandos and Death troopers rivals or even nemeses. The thing is, as a firm believer in the law of inverse ninjutsu I might not even be consistent over different encounters of what kind of troopers is rival or a minion, which is why I formatted both the 501st and the storm commandos as templates that are easily applied to the stormtrooper sergeant rival as well. If a dozen storm commandos show up, they're probably (mostly) minions. If an imperial VIP has two of them as bodyguards, they're probably rivals. If a single storm commando sniper stalks the PCs, it might even be a Nemesis. I'd treat Death troopers the same way. Some players might cry foul, but I expect mine to be at least somewhat genre savvy, or at leat expecting me to throw them a curve ball every now and then.

3 hours ago, Tom Cruise said:

There's already (semi) official rules for Storm Commandos, in the AoR Beta. Not really clear why they got cut. Here they are, if you want a look;

I managed to miss those! They're pretty cool, even if they're closer to what I had in mind for Death troopers.

43 minutes ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

I think that elite minions should be short, yellow and funny

If the yellows are elite, then what are these guys ?

They're elite adversaries

No, I think they should be rivals. But , use them in minion numbers.

332232

Adversary 1, Soak 5, WT: 8, Ranged L-2 Ranged-H 2, Melee-2, Cool-2, Vigilence-2, Brawl-1, Athletics-1 Discipline-2

So Precise - Reduce the difficulty of all ranged attacks by one, to a minimum of Easy.

Stormers of the Temple - Upgrade the difficulty of all opposed force power checks by one .

Vader's Fist- Force all enemies to make an average fear check before combat begins.

Remember, these are the guys who purged the Jedi Order, secured the Tantive IV in minutes, and stormed Echo Base. They hold some of the last veterens of the Clone Wars. They are going to be the best legion around.

43 minutes ago, Dayham said:

No, I think they should be rivals. But , use them in minion numbers.

332232

Adversary 1, Soak 5, WT: 8, Ranged L-2 Ranged-H 2, Melee-2, Cool-2, Vigilence-2, Brawl-1, Athletics-1 Discipline-2

So Precise - Reduce the difficulty of all ranged attacks by one, to a minimum of Easy.

Stormers of the Temple - Upgrade the difficulty of all opposed force power checks by one .

Vader's Fist- Force all enemies to make an average fear check before combat begins.

Remember, these are the guys who purged the Jedi Order, secured the Tantive IV in minutes, and stormed Echo Base. They hold some of the last veterens of the Clone Wars. They are going to be the best legion around.

I'm loving the ability names. I'm going to have to use them.

I've been thinking about something like a sharpshooter-talent/ability for minions, but more along the lines of upgrading their combat check once. Reducing difficulty seems a bit wonky.

I'm going to stick by my choice to make them minions. After all, they're an entire legion, which is about 10,000 people. Sure, they probably have an elite platoon or even company full of badass rivals, but they'd be the best of the best. Regardless, I made as template to be added to the stormtrooper profile for a reason; so it would be equally easy to add it to the pretty badass stormtrooper sergeant profile if you want 501st rivals. Also, if they're all rivals, a nemesis can't use a squad of them as meat shields bodyguards with the squad rules.

But perhaps something like this:

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501st Stormtrooper Legion (minion/rival)

all stats identical to regular stormtroopers/stormtrooper sergeant unless otherwise noted

Minion Skills (Group Only): Add Cool, Gunnery, Ranged (light), Resilience and Vigilance.

Rival Skills: Add Cool 2, Gunnery 2

Additional Abilities: Vader's fist (Add one success to any fear checks).
Stormers of the Temple (upgrade difficulty to any opposed check to directly influence or affect 501st troopers with force powers.)
So precise (upgrade ability of ranged combat checks once)

Maybe I should just conflate Vader's fist with Stormers... , and make an automatic Success on Discipline checks over all?

While I liked the old Vader's fist mechanic for giving them a boost against engaged enemies, and changed how they were used tactically, just upgrading their shooting is more streamlined and easier to keep in mind. But perhaps it makes them too bland now, just being better against everything?

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

I'm loving the ability names. I'm going to have to use them.

I've been thinking about something like a sharpshooter-talent/ability for minions, but more along the lines of upgrading their combat check once. Reducing difficulty seems a bit wonky.

I'm going to stick by my choice to make them minions. After all, they're an entire legion, which is about 10,000 people. Sure, they probably have an elite platoon or even company full of badass rivals, but they'd be the best of the best. Regardless, I made as template to be added to the stormtrooper profile for a reason; so it would be equally easy to add it to the pretty badass stormtrooper sergeant profile if you want 501st rivals. Also, if they're all rivals, a nemesis can't use a squad of them as meat shields bodyguards with the squad rules.

But perhaps something like this:

Maybe I should just conflate Vader's fist with Stormers... , and make an automatic Success on Discipline checks over all?

While I liked the old Vader's fist mechanic for giving them a boost against engaged enemies, and changed how they were used tactically, just upgrading their shooting is more streamlined and easier to keep in mind. But perhaps it makes them too bland now, just being better against everything?

Ehhh, I never really pictured the 501st as being capable of being afraid. Their CO is a walking horror show as it is, and they've been through some of the worst sights of the Clone Wars. I do think that just upgrading the check for So Precise works better for your concept of them as minions, so nice touch there.

As for other differences from regular stormtroopers, I think that just making them tactically smarter than the others would avoid them being bland. Giving them dynamic fire worked pretty good for making them an assault unit, but just having them be better overall works too, because, well. . . They are better.

I think it would be cool to give these guys a point of defense. But yeah, cool and vigilance on a minion group is plenty elite.

2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

I think it would be cool to give these guys a point of defense. But yeah, cool and vigilance on a minion group is plenty elite.

Nah, the first thing we see from the 501st is one of them going down from blaster fire on the Tantive IV, so they shouldn't be too hard to kill.

Then again, charging through a chokepoint while only losing a single guy is pretty impressive, so it might not be completely unwarranted.

This is my elite stormtrooper.

On 2017-12-16 at 6:38 AM, mouthymerc said:

This is my elite stormtrooper.

Photobucket is holding your pic hostage. I gleaned some of it from the thumbnail in your gallery though. Deadly accuracy on minions is severely nasty! I'd save that for stuff like Death troopers (if I decided to stat them as minions) I think. That alone would turn regular stormtroopers into killing machines.

There is also something inherently funny about how the phrase "Standard elite minion" makes perfect sense to us rpg:ers.