Most card games, especially Magic but also other LCGs, have very little decision making beyond creating decks once you understand the game and the meta. You usually have clearly optimal plays to make, so does your opponent, and you find yourself predicting that "If I draw card X before they draw card Y, I will win. Otherwise, they will win." Every turn becomes an exercise in filling time until one of those cards is drawn, with the very rare game where neither win condition is drawn and play decisions are able to decide the game. Game of Thrones with it's constant board wipes has become a poster boy for this, for example. If you are knowledgeable enough about the game, you compound perfect knowledge of your deck with a 90% plus knowledge of their deck, and the game feels like it's on autopilot.

Playing 3 core, I found a great amount of fun in that you decided the game 99% of the time based on the decisions you made with your cards, because little could be done that affected the board state too dramatically with a single card or 2 card combo. Unfortunately, I am finding that the more cards are out the less this is true. It's extremely annoying when you set up a game, play it, and find that you never really had any decisions to make because they simply out-drew the holy **** out of you. More cards are providing more opportunities. Yes, I realize that there aren't any straight up game-over combos but if you didn't draw equally well it's just the long road through purgatory rather than straight to the fires. Are you coming back from a 7 fate, 6 honor deficit? No, you really aren't, and taking another 20 minutes for that to play out is just a waste of time.

Is it just me? Is it just something to accept, and move on to another game? Combo-licious top decking annoys me, and the more non-interactive (or virtually so) crap that comes up the more irritating it becomes. I realize this is something that others may enjoy, but I am not one of them and I feel like if this trend continues to escalate over the next few packs I might be cashing in and calling it already.

Flame on, I feel like this post is begging for it, but if you have some insight I am missing I would appreciate it if you would share.

While it can feel that way sometimes, I've never felt that one play completely swung the game so far as to make winning inevitable for either player. It's generally a sequence of plays that lead to that defining moment and had you or the other player done things differently, you would have likely had a different outcome.

I've played and watched games where someone just had an unbelievable hand of cards and just seemed to have an answer to everything their opponent played. I often "rewind" games to the point where things go sideways to see if there is a different line of play and generally there is.

It starts at recognizing what clan you are playing against and how you mulligan, and the game just doesn't let up. Gotta be "on it" at all times.

It might help if you explained how you want the game to work. Considering you're complaining about 'power' cards dominating the game while also complaining about board wipes in Thrones that are mostly intended as a counter to power cards (except that right now they're kind of not, but I don't think that's the reason you're complaining about them).

What is your idea of balance? How do you want your choices to matter and how is it currently different?

I've played a lot of CCGs and LCGs, and none are as tactical as L5R imho. I've played maybe 50 games with my current deck, and I can say that every game has been different in its own way, due to bidding, fate decisions, opponent deck, opponent fate decisions, opponent bidding, etc (you see what I mean).

I like Magic, but as you said 90% of the game is the deckbuilding (or more commonly, net-building). While this is still quite important in L5R (and will for sure grow in importance with the release of more cards), how you actually play and the decisions you make in game feel way more relevant and impacting to me. One day maybe we will have auto-piloting decks, but so far I really cannot see how that could happen.

So unless you bring some practical examples, I don't really agree with your conclusion. This is one of the few games where you can give a crappy deck to a great player and see him win consistently.

While I think we all agreed that L5R is really deep and tactical game ... it is true also that the more 5 costers come out in this first cycle, the more luck of the draw starts to matter.
I'm playing Phoenix and the games where I dig both my Kaede and Tsukune, have very little in common with those were I flip 2-3 costers for 3-4 rounds. While in only Core environment you could definitely feel the weight of drawing, or not drawing, the clan champion ... I.e. right now against LION is crazy to expect them to draw poorly. They have 1 great and 1 good 5 coster, LPB which is best character in core set, Kitsuki Spiritcaller which runs right behind her and a few other good cards.

I've built my deck to adapt to this as much as possible. Still, I feel what the OP is saying ... My hopes are that things will balanced out by end of 1st Cycle.

I personally think this is a highly skilled game, and the proof will be in the pudding as we have more and more people consistently topping more and more events.

Games can be swung of course, and variance exists, but there are so many decision points and so many moving parts that skilled play will be rewarded more often than not. And conversely, incorrect play will be punished over time too.

Luck will always be a factor in any card game. You might have a bunch of bad dynasty draws in a row, or duplicate draws of limited use cards from your conflict deck. Deckbuilding is about limiting those bad draws, but it can't fully eliminate it. A well designed deck will still have games lost due to bad draws, and that's an aspect of the game that has to be accepted.

Unlike a lot of other games I've played, there are very few "swing" cards that in a vacuum, create an imbalance between the players. Most cards have an optimal time to use, based entirely on the game state, and that's where player skill comes into play. Not to mention other decision aspects that are not draw based, such as: when to attack, with what Ring and Type, against which province, and with who. Because of this, player skill during the game is going to be a greater factor in winning most games.

1 bad dynasty flop is all it takes to swing the game sometimes.

Bad dynasty flood can be mitigated by conflict chats and possibly passing early and accepting a couple of province losses whilst building for a better board state next turn. Dependant on situation of course.

This is one of the few games I play where bad draws don't matter so much and allowing you don't panic early reversals can be countered.

2 minutes ago, Matrim said:

This is one of the few games I play where bad draws don't matter so much and allowing you don't panic early reversals can be countered.

THIS.

Old5R was a snowball. One good turn usually meant that next turn would be even better. Come-from-behind victories were few and far between.

Nu5R is a pendulum, or a tug of war. I can't tell you how many games I've had where I thought for sure I was in a tough spot I couldn't come out of, only to find that next turn I come out to win it. Or vice-versa. More so than any other game I've ever played, the game isn't over until the very last moment.

New L5R has a great differential, the rings. They affect the board state significantly each turn and can help you recover from bad draws, they effects can be compared with 1 cost events.

The dinamic of draw/honor and spend/save fate also affects much the gameplay.

Some events can be game-changers like Display of Power or For Greater Glory, but I feel the devs always be cautious of getting a drawback for great cards, in this case, besides the costs, both are dead cards once the stronghold is reached.

There is very powerfull new cards, like Ujiaki, I've been testing him and with the favor it is really a little OP, basically grants you a conflict, but again, there is a considerable drawback, since it have more than 50% chance of doing nothing for 5 fate cost..

I don't think we have this "who plays first the card X or Y" wins the game, there is a lot of ways to change the board, and the feeling I have is the game is a lot more about gameplay than luck.. Some players will run 6-7 holdings and blame luck for having a bad dynasty flip, others like to run hard-to-play cards like fallen in battle, so of course deck construction makes diference, but does not guarantee your victory in this game.

Let's face it, with the current card pool, most people are playing with the same or pretty similar deck. The splash/influence idea is great as it certainly adds some variety but not necessarily game breaking variety.

The true greatness of the game is the sheer number of decision points as many people have stated. Also many decision points of this game aren't just right/wrong but levelled as good/better/best.

This leads to more swings creating a much better play experience. Skill trumps cards currently, I just hope they can maintain this balance as reasonably as possible throughout the next few cycles.

2 hours ago, caseycheesecake said:

1 bad dynasty flop is all it takes to swing the game sometimes.

Thats why they created the conflict chars, normally this swing occurs when you have fate but reveal cheap guys.

So choosing the right moment to play conflict chars is important.

Also dont run too much holdings..

Simplifying everything and reducing it to bad dynasty flop is in almost all cases wrong. Often the game is recoverable and comebacks are quite possible because of the mechanics of the game. I urge everyone who quits after turn 2 bad flop to keep playing and see the results after 20 games. More likely than not there will be a significant percentage of games which were not decided on a single moment.

I found that incremental advantage and disadvantage are crucial to winning or losing the game. The most sure way to win every game is to utilize everything on the board and playing a game without pilling up on missplays and mistakes. Its not one way of the crab that decides the game, it really is a small mistake and not the optimal play every turn that is the deciding factor. The player who manages that compared to opponent will likely be the winner with less regards to bad draws.

I have had several poor 1st round Dynasty flops (3 holdings for example after the mulligan) that left me with so much Fate carried over into round 2 that I was able to set up a strong and lasting board position that immediately got me back into the game, if not actually ahead. I agree with others that there are so many decision points (and so varied depending on board state, rings, fate, opposing clans, etc.) that the VAST majority of games will be decided by player skill and knowledge. Even a disastrous first turn where you lose two Provinces is not an auto loss, you can come back!

I think many players decide to scoop because they see "inevitability" and just want to move on to the next game. This may often be true in MtG or other games, but I honestly feel it is not so in L5R. In fact, to continue to learn and improve I would advise players to play out what seem to be no-win situations. Not every game can be perfect execution of your plan, you have to learn to play from and through a weak position. Just my humble opinion. Thanks!

The only thing I can say regarding this is:

Except for one game, my second one, there has been not a single game, either winning or losing, where I haven’t ended with the feeling that I was in the brink of losing or winning at one point of the game, or even during a great part of it.

Last night, I played Crane vs Crane, I was three broken provinces up, but low on honor. Last turn, both with great board state, me at two Honor, there were some epic battles, and if not for a Display of Power, I would have lost. But I broke his stronghold at one honor. We talked about the game and we agreed it was risky of me to stay so low on honor, but I wouldn’t have broken so many provinces if I haven’t played like that. Also, I risked it to guessing he was gonna attack air and keeping that DoP based on that hunch. One simple playing could have turned the match entirely. And it was skill, not luck, in both parts.

And you know what? 90% of my games have been like this one. And I love it.

I think the main elements that prevent this game from being decided by a few strong cards are:

1) 1 attack of each conflict type, 4 provinces to break. This automatically puts a bit of brakes on any player who might get a lead. They can't blitz through a game very fast even with an advantage.

2) Fate on characters. Even if they get several strong characters out these will naturally leave play. A bit of defense can weather the storm until these characters pass from play. It might make the game last longer, but defense can buy you the time to turn the game around.

3) Rings provide static effects available to everyone. All of the core functions of the game, character removal, honor / dishonor, honor gain / loss, draw / discard, and bow / ready are all present regardless of deck or draw.

4) Dynasty deck is almost purely characters. One of the biggest random problems people experience with their deck in other games is getting too few resource cards making them unable to play other cards, or too many leaving them flooded with resources but nothing to spend it on. The balance of static fate, dynasty of characters and conflict of actions ensures that some balance of all options will be available.

9 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

The only thing I can say regarding this is:

Except for one game, my second one, there has been not a single game, either winning or losing, where I haven’t ended with the feeling that I was in the brink of losing or winning at one point of the game, or even during a great part of it.

Last night, I played Crane vs Crane, I was three broken provinces up, but low on honor. Last turn, both with great board state, me at two Honor, there were some epic battles, and if not for a Display of Power, I would have lost. But I broke his stronghold at one honor. We talked about the game and we agreed it was risky of me to stay so low on honor, but I wouldn’t have broken so many provinces if I haven’t played like that. Also, I risked it to guessing he was gonna attack air and keeping that DoP based on that hunch. One simple playing could have turned the match entirely. And it was skill, not luck, in both parts.

And you know what? 90% of my games have been like this one. And I love it.

I had a very similar game against my buddy recently. I eventually lost the game at 24 honor when he cracked my Stronghold. It was an amazing game, we were both on the edges of our respective seats the whole time.

And the kicker is... it was Unicorn on Unicorn. But that's for another thread.