1 hour ago, TeethAlmighty said:

I was hoping to use Diala's force throw to cluster enemies for Fenn's havoc shot - is that a viable strategy? Or too difficult to set up?

Agreed that Gaarkhan can use cleave more reliably!

Appreciate the post! Excellent strategic advice.

Fenn is generally considered top three characters in the game and that’s the first dissenting opinion I’ve heard on him.

I believe the point was more that an experienced Imperial will try to keep his troops separated preventing Blast but they can do the same with Cleave, albeit with more difficulty.

I’d hardly call it situational. When the Rebels get to act first after an optional deployment (which occurs every round) Fenn can typically knock out a group that has just been deployed. Whether or not that’s going to be your best option might be up for debate, but it’s always an option.

Melee though? That’s ridiculous. He has ranged only skills and ranged weapons can be used at point blank.

And yes, Force Throwing enemies to set up Havoc Shot is totally viable. EDIT: Only when the groups have both activated. So if Diala is the third hero to activate and either Fenn or Gideon is last. If Diala has Battle meditation then strain isn’t a big deal to her because resting becomes useful.

Different people play different strategies but some things are constant.

Rebel always go first and the imperial has to place most of there forces where the book says and on deployment points.

These 2 things are massive advantages in the rebels favour and playing hard against those 2 facts can give the imperial very little in the way of choices.

I very much favour the high damage output hero strategy.

First turn every mission clear as much as possible, concentrate in order on the most dangerous opponents and/or the most likely the imperial would activate next.
The second turn if you do well will likely leave you a choice of mopping up or moving on objectives , the ideal is you do both.

The key is when you hit your next trigger event be it opening the next door or whatever that ideally it is at the start of a fresh round and "most" of the initial imperial deployments are down.

At this point you are playing as if it is round one again, rinse and repeat.

Simple fact is a very strong group of rebels is almost always capable of killing the imperials faster than the imperial can reinforce them.

By mid/late game the strongest heroes can be doing 15 damage a round each, if you have 2 of those and 2 good hybrid/supports for them adding to there damage and hitting the objectives you will give the imperial a hard time.

You will find people will argue that killing imperials rather than going for objectives is a poor choice and I am not saying ignore objectives, what I am saying is if you can kill the imperials FAST you have much more time for picking up crates and hitting your objectives.

1 hour ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Fenn is generally considered top three characters in the game and that’s the first dissenting opinion I’ve heard on him.

I believe the point was more that an experienced Imperial will try to keep his troops separated preventing Blast but they can do the same with Cleave, albeit with more difficulty.

I’d hardly call it situational. When the Rebels get to act first after an optional deployment (which occurs every round) Fenn can typically knock out a group that has just been deployed. Whether or not that’s going to be your best option might be up for debate, but it’s always an option.

Melee though? That’s ridiculous. He has ranged only skills and ranged weapons can be used at point blank.

And yes, Force Throwing enemies to set up Havoc Shot is totally viable. EDIT: Only when the groups have both activated. So if Diala is the third hero to activate and either Fenn or Gideon is last. If Diala has Battle meditation then strain isn’t a big deal to her because resting becomes useful.

You can try blast on hired guns or on a Nexu. I doubt you'll blast that much. Possibly you'll get attacks right back at Fenn. Also some imperial class card allows you to get figures hidden as soon as you deploy them.

Melee Fenn also means that you give him an Hand Cannon or a Deathhammer or Disruptor Gun. You attack at melee or reach range in case you want to blast. Then you have Tact. Movement, take cover, Adrenaline rush, trench fighter, rebel elite. It's 11Xp build. A combat coat or laminate armour are a nice addition. You want to stay on the enemy line all the time and get attacks with no/low damage and then recover strain/health. If you really want to go melee, I tried this using cleave and reach and replacing rebel elite with superior positioning.

2 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Fenn is generally considered top three characters in the game and that’s the first dissenting opinion I’ve heard on him.

I believe the point was more that an experienced Imperial will try to keep his troops separated preventing Blast but they can do the same with Cleave, albeit with more difficulty.

I’d hardly call it situational. When the Rebels get to act first after an optional deployment (which occurs every round) Fenn can typically knock out a group that has just been deployed. Whether or not that’s going to be your best option might be up for debate, but it’s always an option.

Melee though? That’s ridiculous. He has ranged only skills and ranged weapons can be used at point blank.

And yes, Force Throwing enemies to set up Havoc Shot is totally viable. EDIT: Only when the groups have both activated. So if Diala is the third hero to activate and either Fenn or Gideon is last. If Diala has Battle meditation then strain isn’t a big deal to her because resting becomes useful.

I agree, fenn's blast can get really powerful. As the imperial player, I know if will be a difficult campaign if he is a part of the group. Basically him, onar, and gideon are the hardest to deal with I think. Maybe mak as well.

On 11/25/2017 at 11:20 AM, Golan Trevize said:

Melee Fenn also means that you give him an Hand Cannon or a Deathhammer or Disruptor Gun.

Ah, that makes more sense. Still, it’s not a strategy I would use. I was Fenn in my last campaign and I spent most of it with the EE-3, tact display, and the Under barrel. We were up against Black Ops, even with the hidden status and Shadow Armor the IP was struggling to defend my attacks. He (the IP) was inexperienced though; his first as the Imp and my first as a Rebel.

On 11/25/2017 at 11:20 AM, Golan Trevize said:

If you really want to go melee, I tried this using cleave and reach and replacing rebel elite with superior positioning.

That’s more what I was picturing when you said melee. It kills me that Superior Positioning is so good but you never get a chance to take it, but an up close build might be a good excuse.

On 11/25/2017 at 8:43 AM, a1bert said:

Yes, and also less need to Rest because less attacks against you.

However, don't worry about a hero or two becoming wounded toward the end. If you win a mission with all heroes Healthy, you have probably spent too much time Resting and/or attacking.

I would have thought that if you win a mission with all heroes Healthy, you probably did a very good job

1 minute ago, IanSolo_FFG said:

I would have thought that if you win a mission with all heroes Healthy, you probably did a very good job

Did you leave any crates behind?

1 minute ago, a1bert said:

Did you leave any crates behind?

ok ... from a certain point of view

Folks,

I started out wondering about optimal activation order and ended up learning whole game strategy. Well played! Thank you! ?

On 22/11/2017 at 5:01 PM, a1bert said:

If there are two groups of (unactivated) Stormtroopers:

2. If you defeat 1 figure from each group -> the IP activates either one, providing only 2 attacks. You now have only a 2-figure threat in addition to other groups. Do it again, and you halve the effect of an imperial activation.

If Fenn has a chance to either:

1. Defeat 1 or 2 figures from two different unactivated groups

Or

2. Defeat all the figures from one group and leave the other untouched

What's the better move?

There in lies the skill and it depends mostly on the 2 groups in question.

You need to decide what is the biggest threat and after your first attack then is attacking that group again still your best choice.

You cannot stop every imperial activation but you can help dictate which group he will move next , you simply need to mitigate the damage from that as much as you can.

One thing I will say is you should attack to kill, wounding lots of units does you no good. So when you attack something you want to have an idea how much damage you are likely to do and know if you have a good chance of a kill.

3 Storm troopers on 1 HP each are just as dangerous as 3 at full health. Killing 1 of a pair is almost always better than badly wounding both.

Thanks all for the valuable advice. Based on feedback here, this is what I'm thinking for next game. If priority is kills:

1. If Imperials are clumped up nicely, send in Fenn. He's our biggest damage dealer and 2 attacks may be enough to defeat an entire inactivated group with blast.

2. If Imperials are not overly clumped, send in Gaarkhan via charge to the densest area of Imperials and get him in the fight early. With cleave, he may be able to take out one or two figures and make himself a nuisance for the Imps.

3. Diala goes third. By this point she's already been rerolling to help Fenn and Gaar wreak havoc. A couple of more strain moves gives her good positioning before she rests (and focuses either Fenn or Gaar). With full endurance restored, she can now force throw an already activated Imperial next to another for a clustered blast/cleave or take out a 1-HP wounded enemy. Then she can move or attack, depending on the situation.

4. Gideon commands Fenn or Gaar, who proceed to blast (or cleave) the clustered Imps to kingdom come OR try to take out any inactivated Imps. Final move is to use his free movement points to advance.

Sound good? ?

If priority is objective running, would you suggest prioritizing movement abilities in the first round (force throw, command movement, tactical movement) to get to objectives as fast as possible, or a hybrid of doing as much damage as possible in round one while running?

EDIT: Domiuk and A1bert already discussed the virtues of heavy attacking in round one. I guess that's always a good go-to strategy assuming you have the firepower, and then round 2-x flavour as desired depending on the mission.

Gaarkhan always activated first in my hero group, clearing stormtrooper groups like nothing.. in the Hoth Campaign and put the Distraction Bane on him every mission. his first activation was then limited to one action, forcing them to switch strategy

13 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Sound good? ?

I'm against this kind of reasoning. Every turn is a unique case that requires an ad-hoc solution. If your strategy gets this clear to the imperial player you're doomed.

@TeethAlmighty , not a bad general layout, but I can't stress enough that you need to always allow room for flexibility. Especially, consider if your Imperial catches on to the Rebel patterns, and learns to play around them- that could be a disaster, particularly if he uses that knowledge to play the objectives better.

1 hour ago, Golan Trevize said:

I'm against this kind of reasoning. Every turn is a unique case that requires an ad-hoc solution. If your strategy gets this clear to the imperial player you're doomed.

Good point. Since I'm new at this, I've been trying to think of it in terms of a general algorithm to apply to increase success, but maybe the key is learning to identify specific patterns and respond appropriately. There's probably no substitute for experience.

13 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

@TeethAlmighty , not a bad general layout, but I can't stress enough that you need to always allow room for flexibility. Especially, consider if your Imperial catches on to the Rebel patterns, and learns to play around them- that could be a disaster, particularly if he uses that knowledge to play the objectives better.

As a seasoned player, is the "right" strategy usually apparent to you when you know the objective and you see the Imperial load out? I was hoping for general rules of thumb until I get more experience under my belt. This thread has been great for that!

15 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:

As a seasoned player, is the "right" strategy usually apparent to you when you know the objective and you see the Imperial load out? I was hoping for general rules of thumb until I get more experience under my belt. This thread has been great for that!

Totally, always good to have a rule to thumb.

Thing is, these rules as are are for a more combat heavy turn . And for that, it's not a bad skeleton for a strategy. However, all four of your heroes are somehow contributing to combat in this round. That's not always going to be practical- in fact, it rarely ever will be.

Instead, each mission is going to have different objectives. What you need to consider is how to achieve these objectives- and they'll be different every time!

For instance, let's throw in a basic setup. Your objective is to activate a terminal to progress the mission. The terminal is behind a closed door. Meanwhile, Vader is 3 spaces away from the nearest hero.

1) In this case, you might have Gideon activate first. Maybe he uses Command to move Fenn right next to the door, then uses an attack to stun Vader, ensuring Vader won't be able to both move and attack this round.

2) Next, you might have Diala use force push to send Gaarkhan toward the objective, take two strain to move, and hit a stormtrooper (or more, with Way of the Saarlac).

3) After that, Fenn can open the door and blast some troopers who spawn inside the room (because stuff almost always spawns when you open a door).

4) Finally, Gaarkhan can use charge to move adjacent to the terminal, hit one of the survivors from Fenn's blast, and spend his last action to activate the terminal.

Obviously this is all hypothetical, and maybe there was a better strategy for the heroes at one point, but you have to keep in mind that you need to balance removing enemies from the board with actually completing the objective. Combat is only a part of the game, and if for instance you'd used Diala's Force push or Gideon's Command aggressively instead of using its utility to progress the objective, there's no way you'd have been able to advance the mission by the end of the first round like the above example- and the slower the Rebels go, the better for the Empire.

And yeah, it's going to take you a little bit to really start to see these strategies emerge- but that's all the more reason not to fall into a rut of assigned spots during activation.

9 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:

As a seasoned player, is the "right" strategy usually apparent to you when you know the objective and you see the Imperial load out? I was hoping for general rules of thumb until I get more experience under my belt. This thread has been great for that!

One strategy I liked to use when I'm not sure what the imperial player would do is to go with Gideon first, especially when he can command people twice. I basically have him command someone (probably fenn or garkann in your case) to move twice, or move and attack depending on mission set up. This basically gives one of your characters two turns, and allows you to react to whatever the imperial player does. For example, now that garkaan is moved up and he still had his activations, you are free to attack twice, move twice, interact, whatever you need to do that is best for the mission. I think using Gideon first allows for the most flexibility.

Really appreciate the in depth response!

Quote

Thing is, these rules as are are for a more combat heavy turn . And for that, it's not a bad skeleton for a strategy. However, all four of your heroes are somehow contributing to combat in this round. That's not always going to be practical- in fact, it rarely ever will be.

All other things being equal, is it safe to say that the first round is a good candidate for a combat heavy turn? Gain an early activation advantage over the Imperial?

Quote

For instance, let's throw in a basic setup. Your objective is to activate a terminal to progress the mission. The terminal is behind a closed door. Meanwhile, Vader is 3 spaces away from the nearest hero.

1) In this case, you might have Gideon activate first. Maybe he uses Command to move Fenn right next to the door, then uses an attack to stun Vader, ensuring Vader won't be able to both move and attack this round.

Love it! ?

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...the slower the Rebels go, the better for the Empire.

And yeah, it's going to take you a little bit to really start to see these strategies emerge- but that's all the more reason not to fall into a rut of assigned spots during activation.

Yep. Lol

Our rookie team sometimes gets frustrated when we can't kill an enemy and strategy tends to go out the window as we focus fire on that stupid figure.

I guess flexibility also plays in when a plan goes awry. We *should* have been able to take out that trooper on Fenn's activation, but didn't. So now what's the best move? Continue to target that figure, or focus on a higher mission priority?

1 hour ago, KotasMilitia said:

I think using Gideon first allows for the most flexibility.

In my campaign with Gideon, I often found the opposite to be true as well, especially later in the campaign. If Gideon gets "Air of Command" and "Mobile Tactician" there should be little reason that Gideon can't go last as well. If Gideon goes last, you already have your other 3 heroes in a sensible position and Gideon is presumably out of harms way. Then you "Command" a friendly figure who gets to attack again or move closer to the objective. Gideon gets 2 movement points (4 with "Masterstroke"), then moves into position with the remainder of the group or attacks if he's in range to help him stay out of harms way.

Gideon is so wizard.

2 hours ago, KotasMilitia said:

I think using Gideon first allows for the most flexibility.

Interesting! I think I was already falling into a mental rut (as cautioned by Subtrendy2) that Gideon should activate last, but I see now that may be more of a reactive strategy, versus something proactive that forces the Imperial to react to us ?

1 minute ago, thestag said:

In my campaign with Gideon, I often found the opposite to be true as well, especially later in the campaign.

Lol

Clearly there is no one-size-fits-all!

This is how I was thinking of Gideon as well.

10 minutes ago, thestag said:

In my campaign with Gideon, I often found the opposite to be true as well, especially later in the campaign. If Gideon gets "Air of Command" and "Mobile Tactician" there should be little reason that Gideon can't go last as well. If Gideon goes last, you already have your other 3 heroes in a sensible position and Gideon is presumably out of harms way. Then you "Command" a friendly figure who gets to attack again or move closer to the objective. Gideon gets 2 movement points (4 with "Masterstroke"), then moves into position with the remainder of the group or attacks if he's in range to help him stay out of harms way.

Gideon is so wizard.

Yea I totally agree. Gideon is awesome and can work well in almost every situation. I get really annoyed when people pass him up as a lame character because he is 100% support.

2 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:

All other things being equal, is it safe to say that the first round is a good candidate for a combat heavy turn? Gain an early activation advantage over the Imperial?

Again, I think it really just depends on the strategy for your mission. If, for instance, the mission starts with the heroes staring down the barrels of several stormtroopers and other enemies, then I'd probably suggest taking them down fast. On the other hand, if there are just a few enemies within firing range of the Entrance, I'd suggest to at least run and gun.

Let's say that you spend the first 2 turns as combat heavy. Maybe some heroes performed a move here and there, but for the most part everyone was firing at the enemy. Now, maybe during those two turns you managed to defeat all imperial units on the board. That's good, aside from the fact that you've burned two turns without making much progress on the mission. Plus, even at a threat level as low as two three, the Empire will have enough threat to bring in new enemies, such as a fresh new batch of troopers. And, of course, you still have no idea what's in reserve- could be some scary stuff! You don't want to be pressed for time while having to face down and E-WEB or AT-ST.

Of course, on the other hand, you wouldn't want to rush the objectives too fast, because that could spawn more Imperial units and give the Empire a serious activation and board presence advantage.

It can definitely be tough to really nail the balance there, especially when the info the Rebels have on the mission is so limited.

Quote

Our rookie team sometimes gets frustrated when we can't kill an enemy and strategy tends to go out the window as we focus fire on that stupid figure.

I guess flexibility also plays in when a plan goes awry. We *should* have been able to take out that trooper on Fenn's activation, but didn't. So now what's the best move? Continue to target that figure, or focus on a higher mission priority?

Dice aren't always gonna be your friend. You just have to play your heroes to their advantages. For instance, let's say Gaarkhan hits a trooper for two damage, but doesn't quite kill it. Now, he can definitely spend another action to attack it... but that's an entire activation just to remove one health from an enemy. It might be better to have Gaarkhan move somewhere else, and have Fenn try to blast the trooper once it gets adjacent to a different enemy.

Almost no enemy is worth focusing fire of your whole team on, outside of bosses. If an officer rolls three Dodges in a row (not totally impossible, given the Cower ability), you have to try to suppress your rage at that undoubtedly smug Imperial. I've had my Rebels (when they were new to the game) spend up to four activations trying to get rid of an officer they were frustrated at, but for what? That's almost half an entire Rebel turn spent getting rid of 2 Threat worth of a unit.

My Rebels are a lot smarter now. Lately, I've had them had each other justify the attacks that they're making. If, for instance, Drokkatta's player declares an attack, Shyla's player might ask "Why are you doing that"? Often, the answer is that he simply wanted to do some damage- but that's not always the best strategy. Attacking is fun, but you should always assume that the Empire is gonna have units on the board.

I can't claim credit for this, but I've seen this clip describe how ideal Rebel gameplay should go- run and gun, but make sure you're running to the objective. Maybe showing it to your Rebels could help.