1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

That’s basically what I was going for with my thematic fleet - A cymoon ISD, which is basically a Ii equivalence, with Entrapment to enhance speed control, and Thrawn for Confires or Navs as needed.

Aiming for the best of both worlds.

Oh, I like this. I had a long discussion at game tonight with a good player who was looking to push his game to the next level, and I had literally built out a Jerry list with the corresponding features to my Madine list and sent it to him. Then I saw this thread. I ended up settling on Raider, Arq, ISD-II as the mix, but I started with ISD, 2x Arq. Points get to a premium after a while, and that second arq just eats up too many points. I wonder if the titles were better (Salvation) or did something utterly critical to a list (Yavaris), if people would take them more. Hand of Justice is flexible and can help one ship on a key turn get a little more push, but isn't strictly speaking necessary. The other title just seems goofy.

3 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I like the II-click for reorienting its flight path for future turns, but it's horrible for dodging ships trying to jam up a broadsides ship from the front because its movement trajectory without Jerry is very predictable (straight line + wobble at the end). Nav commands help, of course, but needing to nav when you'd really rather be concentrating fire makes the Arq's unimpressive damage output worse.

Usually I try to avoid getting cut off as far back as deployment. Either I drop the ARQs to bait my opponent in a certain direction or start with the fighters and then place the ARQ battery in the optimal position. My first instinct is to try using my fighters and flotillas to intercept any blockers that might try to head off the ARQ battery line, then turn the battery to fire over the GZs and destroy the incoming ship.

Alternatively I have such a deep bid I could choose to go second with my objectives (Most Wanted, Ion Cannon Battery, Solar Corona) to help me determine where the fight is going to happen. The trick here I guess is to make sure your ARQs are never in a position where they are desperately maneuvering.

I think if you wanted to prevent anyone cutting you off, slamming the breaks to go to speed 1 and cutting a hard turn to put your side arc in their face is the best result. Or, you could double-arc with another color in your battery to soften up the target. I think at least once I managed to accelerate, fly over a ship that tried to cut me off, and then perform a hard turn at the end of the maneuver to get my side-arc on target. Your rear is exposed, but at least the ship has some decent shields on the Rear and side to deflect at least one shot if such a blow (MC-30/Gladiator) won't destroy the ship outright.

1 hour ago, Vergilius said:

You're either taking Jerry with them, in which case Jerry greatly fixes their positioning, allowing you to CF or perhaps Eng in the right circumstance. They definitely like their CFs. I think DTT is the right turbolaser for them, because the red dice pool is large enough that you mostly want to fix the blanks, and Needa/TRC is a bit too pricey relative to a CR90 Corvette. Or you're taking Vader, and you'll probably mostly Nav while Vader becomes your damage modifier.

I dispense with Jerjerrod because, while he's good in certain ways, my objective is to maximize firepower potential out of the ARQs instead of playing the maneuvering game. Jerjerrod could be okay if I'm in a high-speed chase and want to keep the side arcs on-target, but I'm sacrificing a few other great commander abilities that would serve the list better. I think DTTs work if you want an ARQ without a specific purpose, but for Maximum Firepower I'll go Slaved turrets with CF once the engagement begins. ARQs are best as Standoff shooters- at best firing on a ship with the biggest hit it can as soon as possible.

I never take Needa/TRCs. Rather than chase that deterministic damage fairy for only one craft, I'd rather increase firepower and let Vader handle control. If there was a card you could put on such a one-ship ARQ to make it a really great sniper I think it would be worth it... but if Needa takes up the officer slot and TRCs the turbolaser, what's left?

The only other commander I'd consider for this battery list is Thrawn, because I can double-up on concentrate fire commands while I'm navigating simultaneously. Thrawn taking Concentrate fire for three turns means once the engagement begins my ARQs increase firpower, the Gozantis chip in, and I still get my maneuvering. However I think that might end up being redundant, and I would miss the dice control Vader allowed with so much red dice.

I think Arqs suffer from being too expensive. Drop them to 48/52 and now you can start to find a real niche for them. Now they are cheap enough to run TRC Arq swarms, or to simply support like a TRC90 at 55 points. Most of the time you are only getting 1 attack per round, which is why they are so bad at killing things quickly.

Like I said in the other thread, I think the Glad is more efficient to spend points on. And the way people load up Arqs, you can get Demo for cheaper with the same threat range and better damage output.

I tried my last pure Vader-Arquitens list last week at our bi-weekly gathering.

Arquitens - Intel Officer, RBD, EA, Darth Vader
Arquitens - Intel Officer, RBD, EA, Hand of Justice
Arquitens - Intel Officer, RBD, EA
Arquitens - Intel Officer, RBD, EA
Gozanti
Ciena Ree
Valen Rudor

My opponent flew a Sloane list with a massive ace fighter wing. He flew his ships to keep them out of range of my Arquitens while sending in squadrons to do the work (boosted coms FTW).

While I managed to lose by only 4 points (trading my squadrons and an Arquitens for Demolisher and Saber Squadron ) I was lucky. If my opponent hand't sent Demo in then I would have killed nothing but a single squadron.

The all Arquitens fleet seems a much more difficult prospect in the current wave. It has difficulty with spike damage and is very vulnerable to massed squadrons.

I tend to fly them poorly. Either a bit too aggressively so they get caught in an arc too many, or just far enough out that they shoot once per game.

In our CC I I did find a use that my Arq always somehow was in position to obstruct shots and jam up my opponent. It died a lot though.

12 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

anyone else think they suffer from terrible titles as well? The squadron activation one in particular just seems god awful.

Centicore will become much more valuable if/when Relay gets a nerf. Until then it is fairly useless. Hand of Justice has some value but it isn't a have 2 have title like Yavaris or Admonition.

5 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I think Arqs suffer from being too expensive. Drop them to 48/52 and now you can start to find a real niche for them. Now they are cheap enough to run TRC Arq swarms, or to simply support like a TRC90 at 55 points. Most of the time you are only getting 1 attack per round, which is why they are so bad at killing things quickly.

Like I said in the other thread, I think the Glad is more efficient to spend points on. And the way people load up Arqs, you can get Demo for cheaper with the same threat range and better damage output.

Pretty much this.

You want burst?

Arq, Engine Techs, Reinforced Blast Doors.

But back on topic. Arqs, as mentioned, are good for leveraging activation damage. What I mean by this is that unlike flotillas and burst damage ships, the Arquittens put out damage on every single activation. Just like with TRC90s, they can cripple ISDs over time. Are they the mainstay? No, because they get no real benefit from first activation. They do however give you the activation flexibility with the rest of your fleet.

59 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Arq, Engine Techs, Reinforced Blast Doors.

That would be really fun to try.

I have been playing around with a Arq+Quasar build. It scares me to put it on the table though, as I think that Arqs and Quasars are just too fragile to survive a game. I tried to give the ships as much survivability as I could so the squads can soften up ships for the Arqs to finish off...

Motti's Mini Tanks
Author: itzSteve

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 89 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 65 total ship cost

Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
- Squall ( 3 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
= 72 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
4 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 64 points)
3 YV-666s ( 45 points)

Why does an Arq with ET and RBD become burst damage??

If you're talking about ramming, you could do it with a Gladiator, which is also gonna cause hurt at close range anyway.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Why does an Arq with ET and RBD become burst damage??

If you're talking about ramming, you could do it with a Gladiator, which is also gonna cause hurt at close range anyway.

That's what I've been saying!

I had some success with this list (no longer legal but you could always move Screed to Demo)

The Intel Officer on everything really forces loads of decisions on the opponent.

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 382/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 66 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 66 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
= 49 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)

I’m having another “Woo!” moment thanks to these forums. Our local meta has a healthy dose of Arquitens. We also have an unusually high number of large/medium ships as well. The common combos we see are:

Commanders:

Arqs+Vader to avoid spending on DTT or TRCs

Arqs+JJ to add maneuvering. Then TRCs are added

Arqs+Thrawn to have Thrawn spam ConFire and add some dice.

Ship composition:

We rarely see Arquitens as the heavy lifters. They almost always sit off to the side of an ISD or a DCap VSD2. As is pointed out elsewhere, they provide a constant damage supply that people -and this is key- don’t want to spend brace tokens on because of larger attacks incoming. They take large advantage of Avenger as well.

That has been my experience. The only time I remember them suffering was when somebody ran Cracken and nebulons. Turns out double brace and a single evade does wonders when your big attacks are 2 dice.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Why does an Arq with ET and RBD become burst damage??

If you're talking about ramming, you could do it with a Gladiator, which is also gonna cause hurt at close range anyway.

One has a defensive retrofit and the other does not. Be my guest to ram my cheaper Admonition to death with your Demolisher.

I have a friend who has been running a decentralized fleet for the last couple of waves.

Vader on an Arq with RBD and Slaved,

an Arq with Slaved and Centicore

2 Raiders with External Racks

Gozanti

Cienna Ree
Valen Rudor
Bossk
Zertik Strom
IG-88
Tie Defender

And I'm missing about 10 pts in there somewhere. It's annoying in that it has no center of gravity to attack, and the Arqs can really dish out the pain since he tends to have CF commands dialed up. The squadron mix is extremely effective as well.

Two Arqs is the sweet point, I think, where you can maximize your long range damage without losing too much in the rest of the fleet.

5 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

One has a defensive retrofit and the other does not. Be my guest to ram my cheaper Admonition to death with your Demolisher.

Why not a second gladiator

25 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Why not a second gladiator

Or use Tua.

1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

Or use Tua.

Only one, and rammers run best in pairs.

Really the quest ion is why not 4 gladiators.

GGGG Motti - Rams - s4Strat b14 - or add 3 Goz

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 386/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- External Racks ( 3 points)

= 84 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- External Racks ( 3 points)

= 72 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- External Racks ( 3 points)

= 72 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)

- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)

- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- External Racks ( 3 points)

= 92 total ship cost

1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)

1 Lambda-class Shuttle ( 15 points)

1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)

Card view link

Fleet

This list probably could use a few Gozantis...

I normally run them cheap as anything just the base version with dual turbos, commanded by jerry. Start at speed 2, bank a nav token and then nail every dial to concenttate fire until you or they die.

This is typically with two of them backing up my isd2.

The deluxe version is add intel officer and blast doors, but when playing with the isd i usually cant afford these.

Key thing as mentioned previously is that even with dtt and a token their damage is very swingy. But in combo with the threat of the isd they do good work.

Rubbish against floaters unless you can get jonus in and keep him alive.

Some great discussion of hand of justice title on the latest comm noise podcast as well...

On 11/20/2017 at 4:18 PM, TallGiraffe said:

@Thrindal how are you finding the command cruiser over light cruisers?

I really don’t like the Arc as a carrier, it really wants Nav or Concentrate Fire commands. The Light Cruiser is cheaper. I almost always go with it. They can’t hunt squadrons the way ISDs can, but Arcs are soft enough that no matter their squadron dice, they don’t want to be surrounded by fighters.

12 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

I really don’t like the Arc as a carrier, it really wants Nav or Concentrate Fire commands. The Light Cruiser is cheaper. I almost always go with it. They can’t hunt squadrons the way ISDs can, but Arcs are soft enough that no matter their squadron dice, they don’t want to be surrounded by fighters.

Agreed. I've tried the Command Cruiser and with Engine Techs it can be impressively maneuverable, but you're largely spending points upgrading to the Command Cruiser so you can spend more points on Engine Techs; it's generally superior to keep the Arquitens as cheap as you can so you can fit more stuff in your fleet.

I am curious if Thrawn might provide an alternative, though. Being able to Squadron 2 through Centicore and/or a Lambda while still doing what it actually wanted to do isn't bad at all.

I've been finding that a pair flown in formation is a solid addition to a fleet. Both with Dual Turbos. Keeping them cheap and reliable, as well as co-supported. Providing constant damage to be followed up by other sources (in my case a VSD).

I have been putting a Command Cruiser with Projection Experts on the board, and, when flown well, it does give an appreciable amount of support. Though token maintenance is very important.

Really have not been sold on HOJ of late. I was hoping it would lessen the blow of Sloane's fighters, but the activations are not reliable enough, it just adds another layer of decision making.

The good use for Hand of Justice I find is in a list with 2xISDs. Put it in the middle of them for protection or out on a flank to add fire support and it can get your ISDs their brace back.

Motti or Mof JJ
ISD2, GT, ECM, LS
ISD1, BT, LS, Avenger
Arq-CL, Needa, TRC, Hand of Justice
4xTIE-Int
5-6 point bid.