7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

You forget the key component of arc dodgers is the ability to reposistion after everyone has moved (which is why a TIE Phantom is now a blocker and not an arc dodger). Go ahead and plan where the high pilot skill ship is going to be. If you guessed right, all they have to do is simply moved out of the way and you are as good as wrong. Furthermore if they have blockers of their own they could set up a screen so you cant use the droid, then simply move those out of the way.

Some upgrades are better on a low pilot skill ship such as Deadeye, some are better on a high pilot skill ship such as advanced cloaking device. Nothing is good on a middle pilot skill ship because there is nothing good in the middle. For this upgrade, it is the higher pilot skill ship.

See, FAA can't effectively be used for arc dodging. It's more for early repositioning, disengaging and for some outside the box thinking. It's been great in practice on low PS ships as you can base your movement on current game state. I've missed FAA chances on high PS pilots due to somebody getting in arc.

Edit - think I misunderstood as well...

18 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

With the whole game the best pilot skills are on the far end of the spectrum. In order for a mid range pilot skill to be effective it has to be considerably OP like Biggs or Manaroo.

So yeah just because something is kind of good on a low pilot skill ship doesn't make it well, good.

You forget the key component of arc dodgers is the ability to reposistion after everyone has moved (which is why a TIE Phantom is now a blocker and not an arc dodger). Go ahead and plan where the high pilot skill ship is going to be. If you guessed right, all they have to do is simply moved out of the way and you are as good as wrong. Furthermore if they have blockers of their own they could set up a screen so you cant use the droid, then simply move those out of the way.

Some upgrades are better on a low pilot skill ship such as Deadeye, some are better on a high pilot skill ship such as advanced cloaking device. Nothing is good on a middle pilot skill ship because there is nothing good in the middle. For this upgrade, it is the higher pilot skill ship.

The bit you're missing is that FA has different jobs at each end of the spectrum: At lower levels, it's a way to add agility to ships that sacrifice so much to have it. At higher levels, it's an arc-hunting tool. At both ends, it's a straight-up speed boost if you need to cross the table quickly.

It's not an arc-dodging tool, where high PS makes it inherently better than low-PS; the only-when-out-of-arc restriction makes it more nuanced than that.

Sure, it's not much good for mid-PS pilots, but there's very little that ever can be.

doublepost

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I've played around with Flight Assist Astromech lists based on 4 rebel fighters a few times now, and I'm becoming convinced that they're both fun and good enough to pursue more seriously. They're fast, they throw a lot of dice, they're reasonably tough, and they're incredibly stylish.

The main weakness in my estimation is a lack of doubly modified dice. To a degree, you can Target Lock to bank for later, but FAA gives a surprisingly solid time on target.

The two lists I've tried so far have been four T70s (Blue Squadron Novices) and 2 BSNs plus two Gold Squadron Pilots with Ion Cannons and BTLA4s.

Both have advantages the quad 70s is fast and punchy, and can reposition with an action even when FAA doesn't trigger. The Golds add the element of control, but have even more low quality attacks, and the dial is crap. That Ion can swing games, though.

Consequently, I'd like to draw in additional expertise to this problem and see what kinds of stuff people are looking at.

Ideas so far:

Throwing a Stresshog in instead of one FAA fighter.

Making sure one T70 is Jess (it's really a no-brainer).

Making one ship a support ship to try and enhance the offense of the other 3.

Any practice or theory any of you can share to put Rebel Fighters back on the map?

I really like the idea of Luke w/ VI + FAA. A ps10 30pt ace with both offense and def mods almost always getting shots.

Luke Skywalker (28) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Jess Pava (25) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1)

Rookie Pilot (21) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

or, my favorite build with FAA, is that ion cannon ywing, but with FAA, add bombs to them and they get the deathfire effect, can turn away from high ps aces, barrel-roll or boost, and drop bombs on them. If you go down to jess, you can afford EM on the Ywings. I just really wanna fly THE MAN, LUKE FREAKIN SKYWALKER!!!

Luke Skywalker (28) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Captain Rex (14)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18) w/ Ion Cannon Turret (5), Bomb Loadout (0), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Cluster Mines (4), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18) w/ Ion Cannon Turret (5), Bomb Loadout (0), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Cluster Mines (4), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

1 minute ago, wurms said:

I really like the idea of Luke w/ VI + FAA. A ps10 30pt ace with both offense and def mods almost always getting shots.

Luke Skywalker (28) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Jess Pava (25) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1)

Rookie Pilot (21) w/ Flight-Assist Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

or, my favorite build with FAA, is that ion cannon ywing, but with FAA, add bombs to them and they get the deathfire effect, can turn away from high ps aces, barrel-roll or boost, and drop bombs on them. If you go down to jess, you can afford EM on the Ywings. I just really wanna fly THE MAN, LUKE FREAKIN SKYWALKER!!!

Luke Skywalker (28) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Captain Rex (14)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18) w/ Ion Cannon Turret (5), Bomb Loadout (0), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Cluster Mines (4), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18) w/ Ion Cannon Turret (5), Bomb Loadout (0), Flight-Assist Astromech (1), Cluster Mines (4), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You know, I was just about to list the first squad! I like it because Luke grants a little more durability, but losing regen will still leave him awfully vulnerable.

I keep toying with a TLT Y-wing running Chopper, but they're just not fast enough.

41 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

You forget the key component of arc dodgers is the ability to reposistion after everyone has moved (which is why a TIE Phantom is now a blocker and not an arc dodger). Go ahead and plan where the high pilot skill ship is going to be. If you guessed right, all they have to do is simply moved out of the way and you are as good as wrong. Furthermore if they have blockers of their own they could set up a screen so you cant use the droid, then simply move those out of the way.

Some upgrades are better on a low pilot skill ship such as Deadeye, some are better on a high pilot skill ship such as advanced cloaking device. Nothing is good on a middle pilot skill ship because there is nothing good in the middle. For this upgrade, it is the higher pilot skill ship.

I didn't forget how the game works. FAA lets low ships be more effective blockers to stop just what you're describing, and it lets them do it while saving an action for Focus or Target Lock, woth maneuvers they may not have had access to on their action bar.

If people start bringing PS1 to block FAA, that's freaking great for the game and they're welcome to it.

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I didn't forget how the game works. FAA lets low ships be more effective blockers to stop just what you're describing, and it lets them do it while saving an action for Focus or Target Lock, woth maneuvers they may not have had access to on their action bar.

If people start bringing PS1 to block FAA, that's freaking great for the game and they're welcome to it.

The thing is your FAA can be ability blocked. If it were an unconditional free action like BB-8 then maybe, but it isn't. Sure if you get a free boost or barrel roll then sure you can add action economy on top of it. But you could also have some snap juke green wings come in and then now you move where they are in your arc. If you are unlucky they shoot you, then they move out of the way then your ship get shot. Your ship dies, FAA never triggered, points spent for something that has never been utilized. End of story.

At least on Wedge if FAA is not triggered Wedge gets his shot that removes a green die therefore it isn't a waste of points.

Helping the dial game is a really good thing.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The thing is your FAA can be ability blocked. If it were an unconditional free action like BB-8 then maybe, but it isn't. Sure if you get a free boost or barrel roll then sure you can add action economy on top of it. But you could also have some snap juke green wings come in and then now you move where they are in your arc. If you are unlucky they shoot you, then they move out of the way then your ship get shot. Your ship dies, FAA never triggered, points spent for something that has never been utilized. End of story.

At least on Wedge if FAA is not triggered Wedge gets his shot that removes a green die therefore it isn't a waste of points.

So what, it's a point. It is massively helpful setting up the proper initial engagement, kill boxes, and blocks. It can be shut off sometimes and it has still done it's job. In my experience, getting a ship in the right position on one turn, can pay off for several turns in the future, even if FAA isn't technically active. A non 100% duty cycle upgrade is not necessarily a waste of points.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

So what, it's a point. It is massively helpful setting up the proper initial engagement, kill boxes, and blocks. It can be shut off sometimes and it has still done it's job. In my experience, getting a ship in the right position on one turn, can pay off for several turns in the future, even if FAA isn't technically active. A non 100% duty cycle upgrade is not necessarily a waste of points.

The way I see it FAA can easily be exploited by higher pilot skill ships. Therefore a liability where one might have thought they had an advantage. So funny thing is when you have an upgrade put it in the worse condition for the upgrade and see if the ship is in worst for wear. For low pilot skill ships if the condition happens, the ship may be in trouble. For higher pilot skill ships if the upgrade is not triggered, the ship is actually in a good spot.

14 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The thing is your FAA can be ability blocked. If it were an unconditional free action like BB-8 then maybe, but it isn't. Sure if you get a free boost or barrel roll then sure you can add action economy on top of it. But you could also have some snap juke green wings come in and then now you move where they are in your arc. If you are unlucky they shoot you, then they move out of the way then your ship get shot. Your ship dies, FAA never triggered, points spent for something that has never been utilized. End of story.

At least on Wedge if FAA is not triggered Wedge gets his shot that removes a green die therefore it isn't a waste of points.

If it's on Blue Squadron Novices or Gold Squadron Pilots, then only Prototype A-Wings or Adaptability Greens are going to be able to block you. Otherwise, you're setting your PS2 dial with a perfect idea of the game state, and all of your ships are moving before their PS3s.

I'm seriously not seeing the issue. If the enemies are higher than PS2, then your low-PS ships know exactly what their move will do for them. If they're less than PS2, then your low-PS ships will either have someone in arc, or have a free repositioning move to get them in arc.

And on an unrelated note: I now want to try this new astromech with Nien Numb. It seems like it should be good with Stay On Target, but the BB8 variant is probably still better if you have a point.

7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The way I see it FAA can easily be exploited by higher pilot skill ships. Therefore a liability where one might have thought they had an advantage. So funny thing is when you have an upgrade put it in the worse condition for the upgrade and see if the ship is in worst for wear. For low pilot skill ships if the condition happens, the ship may be in trouble. For higher pilot skill ships if the upgrade is not triggered, the ship is actually in a good spot.

Wtf are you talking about?

12 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

If it's on Blue Squadron Novices or Gold Squadron Pilots, then only Prototype A-Wings or Adaptability Greens are going to be able to block you. Otherwise, you're setting your PS2 dial with a perfect idea of the game state, and all of your ships are moving before their PS3s.

I'm seriously not seeing the issue. If the enemies are higher than PS2, then your low-PS ships know exactly what their move will do for them. If they're less than PS2, then your low-PS ships will either have someone in arc, or have a free repositioning move to get them in arc.

And on an unrelated note: I now want to try this new astromech with Nien Numb. It seems like it should be good with Stay On Target, but the BB8 variant is probably still better if you have a point.

I think a VI Nein Numb would rock FAA like there is no tomorrow, not so sure about Stay on Target. Thing is you have to plan out your stress considerably, since you can't take free actions but again if you trigger the pilot ability you don't need to trigger FAA. Since BB-8 is only 1 point more BB-8 might be better but that is assuming you haven't put BB-8 on someone else like Poe. But man that would be a duo of destruction.

37 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Your ship dies, FAA never triggered, points spent for something that has never been utilized. End of story.

You're forgetting about Integrated Astromech. FAA is never a waste on an X-wing, even if it never triggers.

23 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I now want to try this new astromech with Nien Numb. It seems like it should be good with Stay On Target, but the BB8 variant is probably still better if you have a point.

YES! Especially since you could take a barrel roll and boost to ensure range 1. This next to Wedge and a Strammbot could be some good fun.

Back to the topic: Don't forget about the phantom II! PTL Ezra could be a nice cheap coordinate bus to bolster the rest of the squads dice mods (or you could run him as a stressbot), or Fenn could help to mitigate incoming damage. FAA is obviously not great on the phantom itself, but I think the phantom would be a great choice to support a squad of FAA X-wings/Y-wings etc.

19 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I think a VI Nein Numb would rock FAA like there is no tomorrow, not so sure about Stay on Target. Thing is you have to plan out your stress considerably, since you can't take free actions but again if you trigger the pilot ability you don't need to trigger FAA. Since BB-8 is only 1 point more BB-8 might be better but that is assuming you haven't put BB-8 on someone else like Poe. But man that would be a duo of destruction.

With pattern analyzer Stay on Target will allow you to get into that range 1 spot to drop the stress more often than not.

Just now, BVRCH said:

You're forgetting about Integrated Astromech. FAA is never a waste on an X-wing, even if it never triggers.

...

1 point shield yes it is better than nothing. But again it is still better on say a higher pilot skill X-wing even for the extra hit. I guess that is why it wasn't 0 points, on Wedge it would have been broken for 0 points so it had to be at least 1, problem is that means it is also 1 for rookies and novices as well.

1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

1 point shield yes it is better than nothing. But again it is still better on say a higher pilot skill X-wing even for the extra hit. I guess that is why it wasn't 0 points, on Wedge it would have been broken for 0 points so it had to be at least 1, problem is that means it is also 1 for rookies and novices as well.

It's arguably the best 1pt astro in the game, if you're not looking to take a regen bot or one of the higher ranked astro's, its almost an auto include for that 1 extra HP. I'm not arguing that its not good/better on high PS, but the topic was about its use with low PS.

A 22pt Rookie with R2 is trash. A 22pt Rookie with FAA is usable. So in that sense, it's 100% worth that 1pt.

3 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

It's arguably the best 1pt astro in the game, if you're not looking to take a regen bot or one of the higher ranked astro's, its almost an auto include for that 1 extra HP. I'm not arguing that its not good/better on high PS, but the topic was about its use with low PS.

A 22pt Rookie with R2 is trash. A 22pt Rookie with FAA is usable. So in that sense, it's 100% worth that 1pt.

Yeah, for all the 1 point astromechs that are not unique, FAA is the best. I don't think it would be good enough to see a 4 Rookie Pilot meta though. I still think there needs to be a 0 point astromech that is good on low pilot skill but terrible on high pilot skill.

4 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

It's arguably the best 1pt astro in the game, if you're not looking to take a regen bot or one of the higher ranked astro's, its almost an auto include for that 1 extra HP. I'm not arguing that its not good/better on high PS, but the topic was about its use with low PS.

A 22pt Rookie with R2 is trash. A 22pt Rookie with FAA is usable. So in that sense, it's 100% worth that 1pt.

When IA was revealed, I dabbled with four PS2 T-70s with R2 Astromechs. It was alright as PS2 lists go, but FAA is ridiculously superior as a 1-point generic option. Best 1pt astro in the game is debatable, as that list also includes Chopper and R4-D6, but that's a great debate to have. It's definitely in that conversation.

I've had some success with this list:

Red Squadron Veteran (26)
Intensity (2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Comm Relay (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Red Squadron Veteran (26)
Intensity (2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Comm Relay (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Red Squadron Veteran (26)
Intensity (2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

18 health of token stacking generics with autothrusters..

Usually someone gets badly wounded on the opening joust- that ship disengages to recharge tokens and get autothrusters against anyone who tries to finish it off.

The Primed Thrusters cant token stack as hard as the others, but being able to Talon roll and barrel roll for a token while anticipating an enemy running past you is a powerful move.

Gold Squadron with FAA and action bombs.

23 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I don't think it would be good enough to see a 4 Rookie Pilot meta though. I still think there needs to be a 0 point astromech that is good on low pilot skill but terrible on high pilot skill.

Nor do I, but it does allow for 4 Rookies with Plasma Torpedos to be a thing. Not entirely sure that's a good option, but maybe it is..

I just think its great, if you have those 22pts spare in a list, you don't need to default to a Captured TIE/SS A-wing etc. anymore. We now have a 22pt option that can do decent damage with more bulk. (I'd really love B-wings to once again be a good 22pt option one ship at a time I guess.)

22 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

When IA was revealed, I dabbled with four PS2 T-70s with R2 Astromechs. It was alright as PS2 lists go, but FAA is ridiculously superior as a 1-point generic option. Best 1pt astro in the game is debatable, as that list also includes Chopper and R4-D6, but that's a great debate to have. It's definitely in that conversation.

Yeah I agree.

I did say arguably haha. Yeah its definitely the best generic for 1pt. Chopper has more value if you can fit him out with decent shield fodder, I think FAA has more versatility than R4-D6 at least. Like you said, its a great debate to finally have. We've not ever had this many solid options for such cheap astros.

@Biophysical - I was thinking a decent way to improve your attack mod acquisition would be a cheap crew carrier for Operations Specialist. Maybe that little coordinate shuttle could do the job? I was thinking Ezra is the most survivable, PtL can get him Coordinate and a TL, switching to Chopper regen if he's taking shots.

Jess Pava (25)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Push the Limit (3)
Operations Specialist (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
Phantom II (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Its ok E wings I still believe in you.

*Cries on tie punisher's shoulder

Someone called for a FAA list?

4X PS2 T65 X-wing w/FAA & IA

1X PS2 Z-95

4BZ who?