28 minutes ago, Xelian said:

I used to think that as well. It does make sense in my book. My players argued the **** out of me and it turned out they were right. A quote from the perception skill (I hope I'm not violating some rules with that)

Ah, right you are. That definitely does devalue Vigilance. I think I'll keep the distinction of active vs. passive as a house rule to make both skills valid options.

Another thought on Discipline for non-Jedi: Few GMs use the fear check rules as much as they should, nor do they have NPCs roll social checks against the PCs. Both of these should arguably come up much more often, which makes Discipline a valid choice for non-Jedi.

43 minutes ago, Xelian said:

As for Coercion - it is still subpar to deception or charm. At carries a lot of narrative negatives compared to the other two. Lie to the officer, charm the officer or intimidate the officer.

While Coercion has obvious problems in Force and Destiny (hello, Conflict, my old friend...), how it can be applied compared to other social skills very much depends on the situation and the GM's abjudication.

Charm requires at least a certain degree of receptiveness. You can't schmooze your way past the guy who really wants to kill you.
Deception requires props for making up a lie that is convincing. You need to research your target, know what they want to believe and what would make them suspicious.
Coercion requires only your ability to project a credible threat. Considering the arsenal many PCs lug around, that isn't all that difficult, particularly when they decide to let everyone in on the secret and draw the glowsticks.

Of course, as noted, this somewhat depends on the GM. If they let you just walk up to the enforcer and make a Deception check against their Discipline to get past the door without ever needing to specify why they should let you in, the limitations of the skills evaporate and Coercion indeed becomes less valuable due to its downsides.

16 minutes ago, Cifer said:

While Coercion has obvious problems in Force and Destiny (hello, Conflict, my old friend...), how it can be applied compared to other social skills very much depends on the situation and the GM's abjudication.

Charm requires at least a certain degree of receptiveness. You can't schmooze your way past the guy who really wants to kill you.
Deception requires props for making up a lie that is convincing. You need to research your target, know what they want to believe and what would make them suspicious.
Coercion requires only your ability to project a credible threat. Considering the arsenal many PCs lug around, that isn't all that difficult, particularly when they decide to let everyone in on the secret and draw the glowsticks.

Of course, as noted, this somewhat depends on the GM. If they let you just walk up to the enforcer and make a Deception check against their Discipline to get past the door without ever needing to specify why they should let you in, the limitations of the skills evaporate and Coercion indeed becomes less valuable due to its downsides.

Also note that Charm requires sincerity on the PC's part; I suspect that quite often when PCs are asking to roll Charm, they should be rolling Deception instead.

GeneSys has Vigilance as a passive form of Perception, so I am sticking with that.