1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Before anyone complains about "ONLY 1 ATTACK!! ARE YOU INSANE!!!" consider:

1. If you are attacking with this ship enough to care, you are doing it wrong.

2. It makes this design not "TIE/ln Plus." This ship is for electronic warfare/coordination. If you want 2 attack, use a TIE. But if you took a Vanguard, the ship has a defined role in your list.

To enforce that role I think it could make sense to drop the normal primary all together and just equip a stock jamming beam.

20 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I thought I would revisit this ship for 2.0, because one of the great design perks about 2.0 is that it allows layers of flavor that were not possible before.

Before anyone complains about "ONLY 1 ATTACK!! ARE YOU INSANE!!!" consider:

1. If you are attacking with this ship enough to care, you are doing it wrong.

2. It makes this design not "TIE/ln Plus." This ship is for electronic warfare/coordination. If you want 2 attack, use a TIE. But if you took a Vanguard, the ship has a defined role in your list.

I think I wouldn't link the coordinate, but would have both focus and evade link into Red Jams. With Long Range Comms, I'd have it require that the Jam/Coordinate in question be a white action, so that it couldn't work off a linked action.

Also, I'd consider giving it two attack dice... in the Bullseye! 1V, 2||.

//

Also, this is a ship which *NEEDS* configs. I liked flavor of your 1e versions of these without coordinate, since every dang support ship is just a coordinate bot, and TIE Vanguard as something different feels really nice.

Wait... what if you couldn't coordinate Small ships? Hrm...

2 hours ago, Singulativ said:

To enforce that role I think it could make sense to drop the normal primary all together and just equip a stock jamming beam.

That changes it from an Action to an Attack, so not exactly equivalent.

35 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think I wouldn't link the coordinate, but would have both focus and evade link into Red Evades.

I did that mostly so this ship could do its primary ability LOTS.

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evade link into Red Evades

Uh. . .

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With Long Range Comms, I'd have it require that the Jam/Coordinate in question be a white action, so that it couldn't work off a linked action.

Yes, you are 100% right.

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Also, I'd consider giving it two attack dice... in the Bullseye! 1V, 2||.

While I would not be opposed to this, where would it go?? I wouldn't want to overburden this Ship Ability with multiple exceptions, methinks.

Also, another way to give this ship 2 attack dice is with ace abilities that play off the defender having a Jam token, or the like.

Lastly, to stick with my guns as a designer, I guess I'd prefer to make this ship cool enough that 1 attack die doesn't bother you as an end user.

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Also, this is a ship which *NEEDS* configs. I liked flavor of your 1e versions of these without coordinate, since every dang support ship is just a coordinate bot , and TIE Vanguard as something different feels really nice.

Yes, I would envison that the 2 titles I did in 1.0 would just port over. If I should call them configs now, so be it. I would just change the icon and upgrades to be 2.0-compliant.

And I guess I see what you are getting at with the linked red coordinate. . .maybe focus and evade both link into red jams.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

While I would not be opposed to this, where would it go??

You can have a second primary attack on the stat bar (I think the Strange Eons plug in can do that, but I could be misremembering) that is firepower 2 and bullseye arc. Just don't have gunner and/or crew slots on it if you want to avoid people turning it into a dakka wagon.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

You can have a second primary attack on the stat bar (I think the Strange Eons plug in can do that, but I could be misremembering) that is firepower 2 and bullseye arc. Just don't have gunner and/or crew slots on it if you want to avoid people turning it into a dakka wagon.

Sure enough.

Although, I'll still say that if the major malfunction is that this ship can't bang out a 2 die primary, you're missing the point.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Although, I'll still say that if the major malfunction is that this ship can't bang out a 2 die primary, you're missing the point.

I was just explaining that it could be done without adding to the ship ability. 🙂 1 die primary on a ship that can link either focus or evade to a red Jam and it having the ability to Jam into range 2 if it is willing to stress to do so is fine with me. I just wish it was S&V instead of Imp.

11 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I was just explaining that it could be done without adding to the ship ability. 🙂

I totally appreciate you pointing it out, since I missed that option.

I have had a few folks ask to use my ideas, so I like to make corrections and repost improved versions.

Heck, I discovered last night that someone has reposted one of my space station ideas to pintrest. And if you Google TIE Vanguard Images, you can find one of my cards in this thread.

I actually have a lot of fun when y'all constructively pick at my card ideas.

17 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

...but would have both focus and evade link into Red Evades

16 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Uh. . .

Red Jams. 😛

16 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

[2 dice bullseye]

While I would not be opposed to this, where would it go?? I wouldn't want to overburden this Ship Ability with multiple exceptions, methinks.

Well, bullseye would just go in the attack dice line, like the Nantex, with two different weapons. Which I notice has already been suggested. 😛 😛

I suppose Long-Range Comms could easily become a modification (or Sensor) upgrade. That'd probably be too strong in general, however, without "TIE Vanguard only." Of course then you change the name to something like "VNG Comms Array 87-B," or such.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Also, another way to give this ship 2 attack dice is with ace abilities that play off the defender having a Jam token, or the like.

Lastly, to stick with my guns as a designer, I guess I'd prefer to make this ship cool enough that 1 attack die doesn't bother you as an end user.

I think I mostly agree that 2-dice normal is perhaps best left off the ship. But this thought of a defender having a Jam token seems cool... if Long-Range Comms were an upgrade or whatnot, a ship ability could be "While you defend or perform an attack, if the enemy ship is Jammed, you may roll 1 additional die."

One problem with Jam tokens is that, to some extend, an opponent can ignore them. "Oh, I'll just take a boost or barrel roll action, and the Jam will go away next turn." However, with this getting extra dice, keeping a jam token uncleared puts you at even more of a disadvantage. That seems like that'd be really cool along with a 1-dice full arc, and a 2-dice bullseye.

But on the other hand, there's something cool about having a small-base 1e Rebel Transport. Support and control, and let someone else handle the damage.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

"While you defend or perform an attack, if the enemy ship is Jammed, you may roll 1 additional die."

Maybe "While another friendly ship at range 0-2 defends or performs an attack, if the enemy ship is Jammed, the friendly ship may reroll 1 die." ("the friendly ship" instead of "they" because of likely confusion over if "they" would refer to the enemy or the friendly)? I'm thinking that the single occupant of the Vanguard is so focused on EW and flying that they aren't going to be able to focus all that well on shooting themselves but can have a telemetry relay signal preset up for their squad mates to make use of while the Vanguard pilot focuses on pinging targets and staying alive. Though this is feeling like a more powerful Howlie, so probably not.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Maybe "While another friendly ship at range 0-2 defends or performs an attack, if the enemy ship is Jammed, the friendly ship may reroll 1 die." ("the friendly ship" instead of "they" because of likely confusion over if "they" would refer to the enemy or the friendly)? I'm thinking that the single occupant of the Vanguard is so focused on EW and flying that they aren't going to be able to focus all that well on shooting themselves but can have a telemetry relay signal preset up for their squad mates to make use of while the Vanguard pilot focuses on pinging targets and staying alive. Though this is feeling like a more powerful Howlie, so probably not.

Howlrunner effect gotta have Howlrunner prices. I'm sure it could work in some way, and would probably be cool. But the price is going to have to be up there.

One way to bring it down in power and cost: "friendly ships that are medium-base size or larger." I mean, most standard TIE fighters aren't going to be set up to receive advanced telemetry data.

50 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, most standard TIE fighters aren't going to be set up to receive advanced telemetry data.

Funny you should mention that. I continued to splash around in the TIE-tronic swimming pool today:

Just for DIY gamers, mostly.

Very interesting concepts found here within this thread.

If the empire had such a ship, and it needs to fit within the game, it might really lends itself to having 2 green dice and the Cloak mechanic. I mean, it's not there to shoot anyway.

19 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Maybe give them a target lock beyond range 2 ability or something actually quite useful to lower PS ordinance platforms. It might just single handedly bring TIE Punishers and TIE Bombers back to the mats.

On 4/12/2020 at 1:13 AM, Darth Meanie said:

On 4/11/2020 at 11:01 PM, Singulativ said:

To enforce that role I think it could make sense to drop the normal primary all together and just equip a stock jamming beam.

That changes it from an Action to an Attack, so not exactly equivalent.

But would solve the issue what to use the attack for if the 1 dice is useless anyway. Maybe an ability like: " Beam Hardpoint : You can equip 1 beam [cannon] upgrade.

Otherwise my own idea for an ability was: " Sensor Suit : While a ship locks an object or jams an enemy ship, it may measure range from you." (Copied from the DRK-1 probe droid.)

6 hours ago, Singulativ said:

But would solve the issue what to use the attack for if the 1 dice is useless anyway . Maybe an ability like: " Beam Hardpoint : You can equip 1 beam [cannon] upgrade.

I don't think 1 die is useless in 2.0. OTOH, it definitely is under-powered to emphasize that this ship has a different role than a TIE/ln.

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Otherwise my own idea for an ability was: " Sensor Suit : While a ship locks an object or jams an enemy ship, it may measure range from you." (Copied from the DRK-1 probe droid.)

Certainly another good way to go.

On 4/14/2020 at 2:56 AM, Singulativ said:

Otherwise my own idea for an ability was: " Sensor Suit : While a ship locks an object or jams an enemy ship, it may measure range from you." (Copied from the DRK-1 probe droid.)

That's really clean and nice, and fits with how the TIE Vanguard is designed to work.

mmmm.... 1 dice attack? i'm not shure is a good idea....

considering how difficult already is to put damage through a 3 agi ship with 2 attack dices.... imagine with 1.... seems useless.

And for 14 /16 points i would prefere a proton torpedo. it would probably do more damage during all the game...

at this point maybe you should think if is not better to have zero attack dices (that 1 red dice influence A LOT the cost of the ship), but doing this the tie vanguard start to be very similar to a separatist probe droid...

Anyway this to say that i would renouce to the 1 attack dice for a more powerfull and cheaper ability

sorry for my english