23 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

The Corvettes should have been Flotillas.

Since the core it has felt weird for a single CR90 to go at any of the bigger ships. A flight of 2 CR90’s would be far more thematic. Same goes for the Hammerheads and Raiders. Maybe even the Neb-B’s

But how would that change them?

26 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

But how would that change them?

This is the main issue. It looks and sounds great thematically, and I suppose it would have the minor benefit of making the ramzilla corvette strategy less effective, but by and large it would have no impact on the actual game mechanics.

In fact, Hammerhead Corvettes explicitly can ram and are in some ways designed to do so as evidenced in Rogue One. So the Flotilla rules would actually make them less thematic mechanically.

Finally, from a production standpoint, flotilla models are smaller and less detailed. Some of the more iconic ships would be flotilla scaled if CR90s are flotilla scaled. This means producing twice as many models, but smaller and with less detail. That would have profound impacts on release schedule and average model quality.

23 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Idle conversation topic while wait for some info from FFG.

Have any units felt a bit off to you? Like they are just not quite the way you envisioned them? As an imperial player 3 spring to mind.

Darth Vader fighter squadron. To me Vader is not primarily a team player. Hence Escort just feels wrong. If anything Rogue suits him better.

Interdictor. Seems to big and too well armed. To my mind this should be a medium base, say 6 hull, 60-70 point support vessel that needs protection. More in keeping with the old immobiliser 418 from the EU.

Quasar. A bit too well armed. I'd remove a dice from front and both sides and remove rear guns altogether. Drop the points cost accordingly.

Discuss ?

If Vader loses escort then Luke should too...

First, escort makes Luke hard to use, same as Vader I’d imagine...

and in ANH Luke literally lets his best friend die covering his ***

6 hours ago, Blackout7 said:

Gladiator should have been on medium base

All praise the rise of Konstantine!

6 hours ago, Blackout7 said:

Gladiator should have been on medium base

Not convinced. The actual ship values for hull and shields don't seem to match for the size and scale of other medium ships.

One that should be a medium ship, though, is the Arquitens cruiser. It's decently sized, fairly well armored, and would make Konstantine a very appealing option when paired with other medium combat ships.

Now that I think about it... I don’t care for how the escort ability works at all. It makes flying a group of xwings (generic and unique) lame. I don’t like that the opponent gets to chose which escort they get to attack

I would have done it like this... At the beginning of the round each player (based on initiative) declares which squadron their escort squads are escorting... a squad that is escorting another squad cannot be escorted

This would allow a generic xwing to escort Luke...

To take it a bit further...

Really any non-heavy squad should have the ability to escort... this of course would require a major squad game overhaul

8 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

I don't hate it, it just doesn't seem like Vader. He doesn't strike me as being particularly concerned about protecting other fighter units from what we have seen in various sources.

I disagree. Vader is very happy to let his forces die without him.

But.

If he is fighting then he is fighting 1 against 500 just to prove he can.

23 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

Vader and Luke need to lose escort.

The Interdictor needs to be large base (it's as big if not bigger than a liberty class cruiser) with slightly (and I mean slightly) better maneuvering to compensate for the bigger base. Otherwise I agree with cactusman.

The TIE phantom needs to have a standard scatter die and be cost appropriate.

I always figured the interdictor was a medium ship to prevent Motti shenanigans with making it even more tanky.

7 hours ago, ManInTheBox said:

Regarding Vader and other cards that feel like they've been mis-costed or now have mere appropriate mechanics available:

I don't know how FFG usually deal with these issues, or if they do at all, but I have the impression that they don't like doing things like outright errata-ing (is that a verb?) cards. Instead preferring to do things like release updates that make the overcodted card cheaper (TIE Advanced from X-Wing, if I understand correctly).

Is there any precedent for them just issuing a replacement card alongside the original? For example, just a new Luke, or Vader, or Han card. They don't need to deal with any of the issues of errata and the confusion that can bring, they just sell a new squadron pack with the new cards in.

The new Han Solo movie might be a good prompt to do that, with the original Millennium Falcon model.

You could still choose to use either card, but one is an effective replacement for the original, without them having to remove anything. That might be a solution for anything that you can't modify with upgrade cards to 'fix'.

I suppose, the new ISD refits sort of fit this replacement card solution, except they're 'new' variant s, rather than alternate ones.

X-wing did have the big faq errata to the jumpmaster, since the expansion now has stuff in it that it can no longer use. And Imperial Assault changed stuff at one point with some of their cards for skirmish and campaign, with replacement cards being given out as prizes for a tournament I think along with most likely reprinting them with the errated text. But yes, generally FFG likes to just sort of patch things down the line rather than changing the card in question.

2 hours ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

The Corvettes should have been Flotillas.

Since the core it has felt weird for a single CR90 to go at any of the bigger ships. A flight of 2 CR90’s would be far more thematic. Same goes for the Hammerheads and Raiders. Maybe even the Neb-B’s

You can always use the flotilla base for CR90s and Hammerheads if you prefer, I'm sure FFG won't be upset if you feel the need to buy more expansions or that.

2 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

One that should be a medium ship, though, is the Arquitens cruiser. It's decently sized, fairly well armored, and would make Konstantine a very appealing option when paired with other medium combat ships.

The Gladiator is 600 meters, the size of an Interdictor, and is roughly to scale with the Victory and ISD. The Arquitens is 325 meters, and is about to scale with the Quasar and Interdictor models but too large for anything else (except the Gozanti.) While I see where you’re coming from gameplay wise, it would raise some eyebrows for sure, mine included.

14 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The Gladiator is 600 meters, the size of an Interdictor, and is roughly to scale with the Victory and ISD. The Arquitens is 325 meters, and is about to scale with the Quasar and Interdictor models but too large for anything else (except the Gozanti.) While I see where you’re coming from gameplay wise, it would raise some eyebrows for sure, mine included.

Depending on the source, the Gladiator changes length by up to 100m. Admittedly, I thought it was physically smaller in line with the Arquitens at 300-400 meters.

44 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Depending on the source, the Gladiator changes length by up to 100m. Admittedly, I thought it was physically smaller in line with the Arquitens at 300-400 meters.

I agree - certainly, on the models , the fact that the Gun batteries are similar sizes does tend to make one think that way - especially when compared to the Victory/ISD.

3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Not convinced. The actual ship values for hull and shields don't seem to match for the size and scale of other medium ships.

One that should be a medium ship, though, is the Arquitens cruiser. It's decently sized, fairly well armored, and would make Konstantine a very appealing option when paired with other medium combat ships.

Hmm? The Arquitens has the same HP as the Glad.

15 minutes ago, svelok said:

Hmm? The Arquitens has the same HP as the Glad.

It also has a defensive retrofit slot and redundant defense tokens. It's physically more durable than the GSD.

That would make the Quasar the smallest ship in the Imperial navy, tied with the Gozanti.

edit: my bad, forget we were taking hull into account first. Ignore me.

On 11/18/2017 at 0:01 PM, thecactusman17 said:

TIE Phantom is mechanically meaningless in most engagements, it's a less powerful version of a TIE Interceptor that inexplicably costs more. The ability is useless as it doesn't trigger until after the opponent has had a chance to bring all their firepower to bear on the target. If Phantoms had Rogue their ability would make sense; but as it is they have to be activated into range to attack and then weather the remainder of the ship and squadron phase before they can try ducking back out of the fight.

The Interdictor should be a great ship, but it's absurd cost makes it difficult to coordinate with anything. Too expensive to back up a dedicated combat ship, not enough squadron to be a carrier, overly dependent on specific objective choices to be effective, and a cost premium for defensive retrofits to do anything other than repair constantly. In the campaign it has a critical bonus ability plus a points advantage to bring it into line with other ships, but in normal tournament or casual gameplay it is an over-costed mess.

I disagree strongly with both of your assertions here.

1. Phantom ability combined with station can be backbreaking. And if you want to be bombing ships, phantom let's you disengage other squads and take another angle on that ship. The opposite is also true, allowing you to get out of Intel fields and tie down enemy bombers once again. The phantoms are the closest thing Sloane gets to a heavy bomber and they do a fairly good impression at that. Whisper is practically unkillable.

2. Interdictor is one of those ships you need to play a lot to get the most out of it. That said, once your fairly good with it, I think it's on par points wise with a bare bones ISD... I run mine at 115 points. You don't always have to double arc, but you have to at least some if the time. Of course when you do, you're often pulling off 3 damage x2, which is quite decent on the damage scale... Dcaps really helps here cause it gets you a bonus round of fire. ET's double ram is also a good tactic with this ship. As for tournament worthiness, I just won a ten player tourney against quite a decent field with it. Small sample size for sure. So maybe it doesn't equate to much. But it speaks a heck of a lot louder than theory crafting trash talk imo.

Escort on most of the Aces seems wrong. I paid the extra points due to some awesome offensive ability. Escort suddenly makes them the target that has to go down first meaning they are often defending less important and less potent units that I really don't want them defending.

From a purely defensive standpoint, pairing Dengar with Vader is less effective than pairing Dengar with a base Advanced and Black Squadron. Dropping escort from vader would allow other advanced units to be used to keep his awesome offense punching longer.

Basically, escort becomes a very clear negative on Aces, even though it isn't built into the cost.

Arq. Just a trash ship. 3 red dice, 2 Redirect with only 8 shields, no Brace, and the worst move template in the game, for almost the same cost as a Gladiator which is superior in every way. Glads even have 2 red dice to match the 3 the Arq get to use. Grab Demo and your Glad has a greater threat range too.

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Arq. Just a trash ship. 3 red dice, 2 Redirect with only 8 shields, no Brace, and the worst move template in the game, for almost the same cost as a Gladiator which is superior in every way. Glads even have 2 red dice to match the 3 the Arq get to use. Grab Demo and your Glad has a greater threat range too.

Arquitens-class Command Cruiser (59 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Redundant Shields ( 8 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

Most manuverable ship in the game, with a nav dial it is essentially speed 4 with 7 clicks of yaw.

Is it worth the cost though?

7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Arq. Just a trash ship. 3 red dice, 2 Redirect with only 8 shields, no Brace, and the worst move template in the game, for almost the same cost as a Gladiator which is superior in every way. Glads even have 2 red dice to match the 3 the Arq get to use. Grab Demo and your Glad has a greater threat range too.

Have you played against many well-flown Arquitens? Because they will ruin your day if you're not careful.

Alternatively, I would say the Arquitens is an incredible ship for the Imperials and fits into more Imperial fleets than the Gladiator. It doesn't need much investment to do plenty of work. If you're not running Vader for rerolls, just throw on Dual Turbolaser Turrets for a pseudo-reroll and that can be all you need. Vader with 3-4 Arquitens running Enhanced Armament and spamming Concentrate Fire commands will also rip through even the toughest ships at long range.

Gladiators have to get close, and really only Demolisher is the dangerous one. Arquitens can stay at a safe distance and pick off your ships.

4 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

Arquitens-class Command Cruiser (59 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Redundant Shields ( 8 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

Most manuverable ship in the game, with a nav dial it is essentially speed 4 with 7 clicks of yaw.

Is it worth the cost though?

[ flagship ] Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 111 total ship cost

Yea.... 111 for Demo vs 110 for that Arq. And this Glad is equally as maneuverable as the Arq. I always run Navs and get II I II with JJ on my Glads. Even if you drop RS, that's still 102 on the Arq which gets you weaker dice, which are most unmodified.

You’re lucky Crabbok isn’t here...

2 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Have you played against many well-flown Arquitens? Because they will ruin your day if you're not careful.

Alternatively, I would say the Arquitens is an incredible ship for the Imperials and fits into more Imperial fleets than the Gladiator. It doesn't need much investment to do plenty of work. If you're not running Vader for rerolls, just throw on Dual Turbolaser Turrets for a pseudo-reroll and that can be all you need. Vader with 3-4 Arquitens running Enhanced Armament and spamming Concentrate Fire commands will also rip through even the toughest ships at long range.

Gladiators have to get close, and really only Demolisher is the dangerous one. Arquitens can stay at a safe distance and pick off your ships.

I have. One of the guys I play with is easily the best Arq player I've seen, but he still only uses 1. Needa and TRC. And he still takes Demo because Demo is superior to another Arq.

Mass Arqs is weak against DC+GT Vics and Ackbar. They are good against squads because of the Redirects and Contain.

There's a big problem with Vader Arqs and it's why it doesn't win tournaments. You're taking upgrades to cover the weaknesses of your ships. Red dice are the weakest of the three, so you end up taking upgrades that add more red dice like EA or DTT so you can bump your average damage. Since red dice don't have rerolls, you grab Vader.

Here's the breakdown.

4 EA Arqs with Vader : 292 points.
Average damage with CF and rerolling blanks: 4.83
Cost: 73 (9 from Vader split among 4 ships)

4 Glads with OE : 240 points
Average damage with CF and rerolling blanks: 6.44
Cost: 60

Glads spitting 5 dice vs Arqs spitting 5 dice with rerolls. Glads still room for an Ordnance slot AND a commander that builds on top of the Glads natural upgrade synergy. Considering red dice have a 12.5% to roll an Acc meaning the Glads can likely use their Brace and Evade most attacks, the Glads can take the shots coming in and then simply kill the Arqs with a double arc, which I didn't even take into account for this.

Glads are just better than Arqs. Hands down, there is no argument to be had. The damage output to cost is better, and Glads have consistently proven to be more effective in competitive play than Arqs. I'm pretty sure a Glad wolf pack won recently in GA. I also run 2 Glads and have won a few tournaments.

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In fact, Hammerhead Corvettes explicitly can ram and are in some ways designed to do so as evidenced in Rogue One.

I don't know about that. Ordering a ship to ram out of desperation isn't proof that the ship was designed to ram.

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I don't hate it, it just doesn't seem like Vader. He doesn't strike me as being particularly concerned about protecting other fighter units from what we have seen in various sources.

No, but he sure would draw a lot of attention and a natural inclination to "get that guy".

Agreed on the Kittens. I've faced lots of well-flown Arqs and they're just not good. For a long time I thought it was just because I use MC30's so much and they wreck Arqs... Then I started running into them with other ships too and realized they really are that bad. :/