Cost for Invasive Procedure and Order Hit

By brettpkelly, in Imperial Assault Rules Questions

Interesting discussion came up on the skirmish command post fb group.

Invasive procedure on 0-0-0 reads:

"An adjacent figure suffers 1 damage, 1 strain, and becomes bleeding. You become focused."

It's unclear whether the first part of the ability is a cost for becoming focused. The two parts of the ability are two separate sentences with no "then". In other words, if you use this ability and there are no adjacent figures, do you still become focused?

Here's a counter argument:

Jabba's "Order Hit" reads: "Spend 2 VP's. A merc figure of your choice may interrupt to perform an attack. Then, it gains 2 movement points." It's worded similarly, but it seems like the 2 VP's are a cost that is required to use the attack (although it's not written in bold like most costs). Can you use this ability if you have less than 2 VP's and it just uses up as many VP's as possible? If not, why not?

The cost is an action. The rest is the ability. By paying the cost you activate the ability, then perform as much of the ability as you can.

If there are no adjacent figures, no figure is valid for the first part. The second part does nothing if 0-0-0 is already focused. They are independent of each other. Even with "Then," you would try to perform both, because "Then," indicates a sequence, not a prerequisite. ("if you do" would require the first part to be successfully performed.)

For Order Hit, spending VP's is explicitly defined to be a cost that you must be able to pay (see the rules). Otherwise only the double-action would be the cost (and you would spend only as many VP as you can).

Jabba said:

Some abilities allow a player to spend his VPs or force his
opponent to lose VPs. A player cannot have fewer than 0 VPs and
any VPs lost beyond 0 are ignored. A player cannot use an ability
that requires him to spend more VPs than he has.

Edit:

Page 2 of RRG, Abilities lists other costs, including, but not limited to: action, strain, exhaust, deplete, discard a card/token, and any combination thereof. I think spending anything (VP as shown above, movement points) can be considered costs to activate abilities. Quite a few abilities are also worded "do x to do y" to provide an explicit cost.

Edited by a1bert

It seems pretty clear to me that the intention of this ability is that it shouldn't be used unless 000 does the first part of the ability.

Consider Leia's Battlefield Leadership. While worded slightly different, "Perform an attack, then...". I think we can probably agree you can't use Battlefield Leadership unless you perform the attack?

Leia can use Battlefield Leadership even if she doesn't have a valid target for her attack. When she tries to perform the attack, she is unable to declare target, so the attack does not get performed. She can still choose another friendly figure within 3 spaces to perform an attack. (It would have include "if you do," to require that she actually performed an attack. "if you do" is used in some later abilities.) Edit: that part would fail too, because it requires the same target.

0-0-0 can use Invasive Procedure without an adjacent figure. Let's just say this has come up in previous discussions with the designers and the tech editor.

Edited by a1bert

If 0-0-0's only adjacent figure is friendly, 0-0-0 is required to hurt him if you use this action though, right?

34 minutes ago, theChony said:

If 0-0-0's only adjacent figure is friendly, 0-0-0 is required to hurt him if you use this action though, right?

Yes.

So 0-0-0 has a self focus action? Really? Maaan, this changes things for me

And Leia also says that the figure that you choose must attack the same target as her, if she couldn't attack a target how the chosen figure could perform the attack? It's like he don't have a valid target because Leia targeted no one.

1 hour ago, Mantis731 said:

And Leia also says that the figure that you choose must attack the same target as her, if she couldn't attack a target how the chosen figure could perform the attack? It's like he don't have a valid target because Leia targeted no one.

I would agree. If Leia can't attack, she can't make somebody else attack "the same target"

4 hours ago, Mantis731 said:

And Leia also says that the figure that you choose must attack the same target as her, if she couldn't attack a target how the chosen figure could perform the attack? It's like he don't have a valid target because Leia targeted no one.

True. Then that part fails too. It would not be wise, but there is no prerequisite so Battlefield Leadership can be used even then (to do nothing).

Edited by a1bert

Reply from Todd

" Secondly, yes, 0-0-0 can become Focused even if there is no adjacent figure. Order Hit is marginally different given that its using some VP rules, but I’ll consider a clarification in the next FAQ. "

46 minutes ago, Szycha said:

Reply from Todd

" Secondly, yes, 0-0-0 can become Focused even if there is no adjacent figure. Order Hit is marginally different given that its using some VP rules, but I’ll consider a clarification in the next FAQ. "

This completely changes my view on 0-0-0. Self focusing killer robot

I had a lot of fun with before DARK TIMES came.. before NAL HUTTA came... :)

On 12/13/2017 at 4:49 PM, Szycha said:

Reply from Todd

" Secondly, yes, 0-0-0 can become Focused even if there is no adjacent figure. Order Hit is marginally different given that its using some VP rules, but I’ll consider a clarification in the next FAQ. "

Hi @Szycha can you post a screenshot of the reply e-mail you received for reference? I am collecting recent rulings from Todd for our gaming group and any of our future events (until we get an FAQ). Thanks for the help!