The players at my local gaming store are starting to form little cliques around different play styles and as one of the few purely imperial players, I'm trying to work my way through the list building process to find something that flies decently well against any of them.

The first list that has started doing well enough to attract a following is a Deadeye + ordnance mini swarm. That started out as protectorates or scyks and has branched out a bit to a few lists all around PS 4-6. It's usually 3 or 4 ships, with guidance chips and either concussion/harpoon missiles or proton torps. Once the wad is blown, it's usually mediocre maneuverability and single modded shots. Nothing terribly scary, but I think it can be targeted with how much reliance they have on focus tokens. (As a note, our store TO has ruled that a Deadeye focus can be used as a target lock for all attacks, making it the default action on those ships.)

The second set of lists that has come to the fore front is a mix of PTL and Expertise aces looking for a strong joust. These include a lot of Rey/Finn, Fenn Rau and TBC, all trying to close into range 1 and throw the 5 dice with mods attacks in your face. However, none of these lists run higher than PS 9 fighters, so I'm hoping there is room to exploit here. Bomb droppers like Nym have started to die out because of a combination of these two groups, so I would feel pretty safe flying a triple aces list.

High PS aces like VI vader should be able to dodge and range control well enough to avoid most of the shots, but having PS 10 or 11 means most ships won't have more than a single boost or barrel roll to arc dodge and I feel like turrets are still going to be an issue. So what else can an imperial list do to combat some of these? The Deadeye squads have a hyper reliance on focus tokens, which we can counter with hotshot copilot or carnor jax. Stress stacking stops both PTL and expertise hard, although imperials are pretty limited in that department. PWT's would hate to fly against a list heavy with autothrusters, and potentially you can get some good mileage out of them by always trying to shoot from range 3.

What potential lists spring to mind? I'm looking at a Vader/Inqy/Carnor Jax list that's as dodgy as can be or RAC with tactician and gunner paired with Whisper flying around a rebel captive. Neither one feels great to me or versatile enough to do well against both groups. Let me hear your options and I'll show them why the empire should be feared!

Quickdraw might be at the top of the meta IMO. It hits multiple notes by being an ace, being fairly sturdy, and trading well. Fire-control system + Targeting synchronizer is worth building lists around. You can fire in the combat phase for a target lock allowing others to focus fire with missiles.

Defenders look good to me right now as well. They've got health/evade to enter combat against missile carriers and the ability to turn around and follow post engagement.

More than any meta advice, fly what you like and get good at flying it. A lot of things can work right now if you know the ins and outs of the list. Take advantage of that. Asteroids and how you engage really matter right now. Flying against missiles... Where do you want them to be when you engage? Can you use their formation to draw one ship out of position? Are there certain lists you need to play a certain way against?

From what it sounds like you can build a list in the midrange PS - above deadeye carriers (although with that ruling what ship doesn't consider deadeye?) and below aces - but with far more health and damage output. I like the Vader-Inqy-Jax list idea but some games will have to be a piloting masterclass. You also have the ability to bring overwhelming firepower with missiles.

Imperial alpha strike can remove ships from the ordnance generics before they get to shoot and do the same thing to aces. The standard list would be something like this:

"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)
Special Ops Training (0)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/x1 (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

But the one ship you don't get to PS11 can be a bit more flexible. I played and lost against a version using Intensity Valen Rudor recently, for example.

I've actually run imperial alpha a number of times and have had fun with it. It's a pretty successful list in general, although I have disproportionately terrible luck if I don't have double mods on my ordnance shots.

I've also run a lot of QD in the past couple iterations of lists I've flown, so a change of pace would be nice if possible. I'm all for the defenders idea, and have flown QD and 2 x7's to good results a while back.

Is there anything else that would pair well with defenders? Or anyway to bring in a stress list besides TIE/D and flechettes?

I'm not gonna lie, I think swarms could be effective in that kind of meta. With so many ships, the ordinance shouldn't be able to clear them before the spend their shots, and against aces, that's just a lot of dice to dodge.

RAC can be brutal in that scenario, especially with a ship like Whisper or Soontir as the wingman (so they can solo an entire list). RAC beats aces, and the wingman beats jousters.

RAC/Whisper was one of the first lists I had thought of. I'm pretty used to flying RAC/QD and I think by adding in a tactician and rebel captive to the list, I'll be able to neutralize the expertise and PTL crowd pretty well. I just worry about either one of them having to eat 3 or 4 torpedos in a single round from the swarms. Sometimes you just can't get into range 1 / bump / get out of arc of all the shots. I'm also a little unsure of a RAC build that would be good both against high agi, low HP ships and low agi, high HP ships. Any ideas there?

3 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

RAC/ Whisper was one of the first lists I had thought of. I'm pretty used to flying RAC/QD and I think by adding in a tactician and rebel captive to the list, I'll be able to neutralize the expertise and PTL crowd pretty well. I just worry about either one of them having to eat 3 or 4 torpedos in a single round from the swarms. Sometimes you just can't get into range 1 / bump / get out of arc of all the shots. I'm also a little unsure of a RAC build that would be good both against high agi, low HP ships and low agi, high HP ships. Any ideas there?

The trouble with Whisper is that she melts to TLT fire - especially 2 or more of them like in a Nym/Miranda list, and also to PS 10+ turrets. This is similarly true for QD - and QD can easily melt in a round of concentrated fire from many lists. It makes it pretty essential t have an ace that has Autothrusters and repositioning capability as the wingman.

For the moment, you're relegated to either Soontir or Carnor for this role, but Kylo will soon be a possibility. The Inquisitor is simply too slow with his 1-speed greens. I prefer Carnor myself, because he's incredibly disruptive to a lot of builds, so here's my current build:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (64)
VT-49 Decimator (46), Veteran Instincts (1), Kylo Ren (3), Emperor Palpatine (8), Dauntless (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

Carnor Jax (35)
TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Shield Upgrade (4)

Totalling 99 points.

RAC is fairly standard, with EU to flesh out the points. Carnor is standard, with a shield upgrade, again to flesh out points. When Kylo comes out it'll translate into the following:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (58)
VT-49 Decimator (46), Veteran Instincts (1), Mara Jade (3), Emperor Palpatine (8)

Kylo Ren (42)
TIE Silencer (35), Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Sensor Cluster (2), Autothrusters (2)

RAC is a little more barebones, but maintains his core functionality. Kylo is where things get interesting. Assuming he's got the standard arc-dodger dial, he should have no problems dodging most arcs and maintaining range 3. With FCS he has decent offensive firepower, and sensor cluster gives him excellent control over how much damage he takes.

I was thinking about a RAC/Kylo combination when the silencer is released, although I'm not particularly set on Palp in that list. Have a Merc Copilot on RAC and target lock most turns and you have a crit coming in. Likewise I think Kylo with PTL is going to get work done and probably doesn't need the vanguard title with FCS, but I could see some arguments for it. If any shots do get through on kylo, you're getting your ISYTDS cards out, and if you put a deterrent on RAC, it gets to be a pretty painful list to fly against.

I think I'd build that like:

• RAC (46)
  • Engine Upgrade (4)
  • Veteran Instincts (1)
  • Rebel Captive (3)
  • Merc Copilot (2)
• Kylo (35)
  • Autothrusters (2)
  • Push The Limit (3)
  • Pattern Analyzer (2)
  • FCS (2) or Vanguard (2) and Collision Detector (0)

Depending on how comfortable that PA is, it might be worth swapping in adv sensors and primed thrusters and try to dodge all the arcs, but I want him to get shot at so that might not be the best idea. The next upgrade to go would be EU if I wanted to try out different crew or fully load up Kylo. Lots of ideas to work through. Any thoughts or comments on that list?

Looking into a decent swarm idea that would fit in this area's meta. I'm leaning towards 3 strikers and 2 bombers, just imperial trainees with LWF and AA and scimitars with chips, ion and tracer missiles. Not sure what I'd spend the last 3 points on, probably a plasma missile on one of the bombers for any falcons that line up across the way. I could upgrade to scarif defenders, but I'd like to be able to shoot that tracer and get double modded shots on the same round for the other ships. Throws a lot of dice, decently defensive, each ship should be able to survive a single ordnance shot between evades and decent hull and there's too many targets for the big scary 2 ship lists to deal with.

Anyone with some swarmy experience that can give some suggestions on that or if I should scrap the idea and stick with RAC/Kylo?

52 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

Looking into a decent swarm idea that would fit in this area's meta. I'm leaning towards 3 strikers and 2 bombers, just imperial trainees with LWF and AA and scimitars with chips, ion and tracer missiles. Not sure what I'd spend the last 3 points on, probably a plasma missile on one of the bombers for any falcons that line up across the way. I could upgrade to scarif defenders, but I'd like to be able to shoot that tracer and get double modded shots on the same round for the other ships. Throws a lot of dice, decently defensive, each ship should be able to survive a single ordnance shot between evades and decent hull and there's too many targets for the big scary 2 ship lists to deal with.

Anyone with some swarmy experience that can give some suggestions on that or if I should scrap the idea and stick with RAC/Kylo?

So Imperials have a ton of decent options that work well but if your looking for a solid list that is not over powered but can deal with basically everything.

Quickdraw, Backdraft or Vessery, Omega Leader.

Lots more....just pick something and practice with it. Imperials are solid with enough reps. Nothing you listed as part of your local meta is particularly strong.

If you want to go the Tie Striker route.....I have been enjoying this alot lately.

Strikers are amazing fun to fly! Go for it....

Support bombers are something I've been meaning to try too, and the combination looks interesting.

Main advice:

1. Your weaknesses with strikers are always:
   1. Your minimum speed (3)
   2. Your turning circle (no speed 1 turn unlike most combat TIEs)
   3. The way your dial collapses utterly if you become stressed
   4. Your susceptibility to 2-dice attacks (Miranda Doni or Accuracy Corrector/Nym with Twin Laser Turrets will make you hate your opponent). Be warned that the Scyk swarms (if they're a big thing) can hurt you quite badly....
2. Your strengths are:
   1. You can keep up with boosting large ships without losing your action to boost yourself
   2. The insane maneuver tricks you can pull (especially aileron/segnor combinations)
   3. 3 ships for ~ 60 points is a lot of firepower
   4. Strikers are pleasingly tough enough that they rarely get one-shotted without taking a 5-die cruise missile attack, range 1 from Fenn, or similar 'holy jeebus!' attack.
3. Be careful to spread out and come in from a lose 'net'. Bumping yourself and your target is easy. This goes double against the Harpoon Fantastic brigade.
   1. If a ship cops a harpoon missile, it's probably on 1-2 health. If you don't have a safe way to break off, especially if you're on only 1 health, get aggressive with it and glory in the free deadman's switch!
4. Be ready to attack, break off, sort your formation out, and come back in again after a turn or so (having sorted out removing stress, harpoons and blinded pilot criticals). Don't try and turn to pursue immediately unless you aren't fast enough to get away or your quarry is going to regenerate shields if you let up on the pounding.
5. I've played with 5 scarif defenders versus Chiraneau a couple of times and he's refreshingly easy to kill. 15 attack dice a turn - maybe 12 if he dodges one arc - turns an agility 0 target to scrap metal pretty fast.
   1. Try to come in from the flank.
      1. If you chase from behind his boost is more likely to carry him out of range, meaning only some of your ships get to shoot. Plus sod's law says that the one opponent you play will have shelled out the points for cluster mines and extra munitions and you'll forget this at a critical moment.
      2. From ahead...you tend to find out that strikers are going way too fast (seriously. Unless stressed, Strikers are always moving too fast). Moving into range, getting a shot, and then being able to aileron & move without bumping is annoyingly hard!
      3. From the side, you can move into range, shoot, and have an easy break-off move he's not going to be able to block.
   2. Aim to engage from range 3.
      1. Normally with strikers I'd say range 2; at range 3 you suffer from not getting lightweight frame against most attackers, whilst your opponent does get a range defence bonus. But even parking everyone within range 2, you're still highly unlikely to clobber a decimator in a single shooting phase, and this way you don't get Chiraneau's pilot ability coming into play.
      2. Don't die in a ditch about range 3. Range 2 is fine too - better if you think you'll be on the edge of range 3, because that's likely to have some ships in range and some out of range - the worst possible situation. As long as you're firing with all 5 ships you're fine.
      3. Don't aim for range 1. The bonus dice you gain from range 1 will be more than counterbalanced by the dice you lose from being arc-dodged by a boost, and/or getting a ship wasted by a range 1, 4 dice, target lock-and-chiraneau-critical hit come in before you can attack, plus it leaves you with problems moving away next turn.
   3. it's shocking how fast 4+ attackers take him to bits.
      1. People are used to thinking of a decimator as 'tough' because they generally only have 6-9 attack dice at their disposal per turn. Throw a heavy swarm at him and he just isn't.
      2. In the first time I played a decimator I parked 3 strikers at range 1 and 2 at range 2. 18 attack dice, a Major Explosion and a Direct Hit later, and there was a 60 point expanding cloud of shrapnel in front of my squad. This is not likely, by any stretch of the imagination, but it is feasible, and any player with a Ghost or Decimator has to honour the risk of it and has to play far more cagily than they might otherwise do.
6. Support Bombers look very nice. I'm not sure if I'd recommend 2 or 1.
   1. On the one hand, 2 is almost guaranteed to get a tracer hit.
   2. On the other, it's leaving you with only 3 strikers to do the heavy lifting - putting you actually at a numeric disadvantage against the missile boats, and a generic striker isn't that great 1-vs-1
      1. Spending 40% of your squad on support ships starts to feel like too much. Its the same reason a palpatine shuttle or manaroo never really topped out 1/3 of a squad's points.
   3. The ion pulse missiles should be nasty, and turn a one-off howlrunner impression into a more serious threat - thing is, I'm not sure if it's so crucial with strikers. I've considered the support bomber as a tool to boost up a TIE fighter swarm, because TIE fighters desperately need attack boosts and desperately need to get into range 1, so a thread tracers/ion pulse one-two is the bantha's unmentionables.
   4. Attack 3, fleet-as-anything strikers don't really have the same problem, so I'd be half tempted to stick with just one.
      1. A bomber can carry an extra set of thread tracers (cheaper than extra munitions!) and Lightweight Frame for the same points - that makes it a much tougher target, and it does what it's really there for; an extra-tough howlrunner impersonation.
      2. If you still have spare points, Alternatively consider Seismic Torpedoes. Strikers have an issue with close-packed rocks, and blowing them to itty-bitty pieces is a nice solution to the problem, and might even score some damage into the bargain - especially when facing squads of 4 ships.

My version of "striker swarm plus support craft"

• Imperial Trainee
  • Adaptive Ailerons
  • Lightweight Frame
• Imperial Trainee
  • Adaptive Ailerons
  • Lightweight Frame
• Imperial Trainee
  • Adaptive Ailerons
  • Lightweight Frame
• Imperial Trainee
  • Adaptive Ailerons
  • Lightweight Frame
• Scimitar Squadron Pilot
  • XX-23 S-Thread Tracers
  • Seismic Torpedoes
  • Extra Munitions
  • Lightweight Frame

I would run PTL Soontir + Vader + VI turr phenir and have a solid (2-3) initive bid in order to reposition, then play very defencevly, tokened up soontir w/ or without SD is almost untouchable at range 3

58 minutes ago, mad mandolorian said:

I would run PTL Soontir + Vader + VI turr phenir and have a solid (2-3) initive bid in order to reposition, then play very defencevly, tokened up soontir w/ or without SD is almost untouchable at range 3

I think you'd be bombed to death by the first Miranda that crosses your path, and you wouldn't be able to push damage through on a list with Lowhrick in it.

3 hours ago, Astech said:

I think you'd be bombed to death by the first Miranda that crosses your path, and you wouldn't be able to push damage through on a list with Lowhrick in it.

Miranda can't bombs you at range 3, and you just have to wait thill they mess up, and brace is just -1dmg so decent dice can still pull through

RACdraw (100)

•Rear Admiral Chiraneau (57) - VT-49 Decimator
Adaptability (0), •Kylo Ren (3), •Rebel Captive (3), Tactician (2), •Experimental Interface (3)

•"Quickdraw" (43) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Harpoon Missiles (4), Sensor Cluster (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

1 hour ago, mad mandolorian said:

Miranda can't bombs you at range 3, and you just have to wait thill they mess up, and brace is just -1dmg so decent dice can still pull through

Firstly, yes, she definitely can. The Advaced Slam nerf makes it harder, but with EI she can still do all of the following:

Given that you're piloting ships that have no 1 straight/banks, you're going to be taking bombs if you attack her. And that's 2 damage, since Sabine boosts the bomb. If you're chasing her you'll probably be taking a bomblet. Nym will still solo a list of PS9 arc-dodgers, even with just his autoblaster turret.

Assuming that they'll mess up before you do is assuming that they're less skilled than you. When planning a list it's normally best to do the opposite.

14 minutes ago, Astech said:

Firstly, yes, she definitely can. The Advaced Slam nerf makes it harder, but with EI she can still do all of the following:

Given that you're piloting ships that have no 1 straight/banks, you're going to be taking bombs if you attack her. And that's 2 damage, since Sabine boosts the bomb. If you're chasing her you'll probably be taking a bomblet. Nym will still solo a list of PS9 arc-dodgers, even with just his autoblaster turret.

Assuming that they'll mess up before you do is assuming that they're less skilled than you. When planning a list it's normally best to do the opposite.

Miranda can't be everywhere at once and she doesnt want to SLAM, Deadeye Nym with Autoblaster + ordanace can hurt but is not unbeatable, With TIE Intercepters in the current meta and powercreep ether you're the better player or the game's decidedly theirs by turn 10, I choose not to be a pessemist

13 minutes ago, Astech said:

Given that you're piloting ships that have no 1 straight/banks, you're going to be taking bombs if you attack her. And that's 2 damage, since Sabine boosts the bomb. If you're chasing her you'll probably be taking a bomblet.

Well, she can't have both Cluster Mines and Bomblet generator. Attack from behind for the former and in front for the latter. It's a heck of a test of skill either way.

Plus you need to concentrate fire from all your ships simultaneously because shield regeneration.

14 minutes ago, Astech said:

Nym will still solo a list of PS9 arc-dodgers, even with just his autoblaster turret.

He's certainly a very difficult prospect, and far worse news; he moves after you, so attacking from in front leaves you facing an unknown move, barrel roll and autoblaster turret, attacking from behind leaves you eating a bomblet, giving you few safe avenues of approach.

He is at least easy enough to stick damage on from range 3, but there's a fair chance he's packing a cruise missile which even a high end imperial ace may struggle to dodge, so take care.

6 minutes ago, mad mandolorian said:

I dont see how Experimental Interface lets you do that as EI and Adv. SLAM are mutually exclusive

You take Experimental Interface rather than Advanced SLAM. Move, SLAM, Experimental Interface, Cluster Mines.

It is unique (which means it hit generic K-wings far more than Miranda) and more importantly it does leave her stuck on her shoddy green dial for the following turn, but it still allows her to drop mines anywhere in that huge 'bunch of grapes' pattern. She just can't do it two turns in a row - but when you're talking TIE interceptors, being caught even once can be curtains...

8 minutes ago, mad mandolorian said:

Miranda can't be everywhere at once, Deadeye Nym with Autoblaster + ordanace can hurt but is not unbeatable, With the current meta and powercreep ether you're the better player or the game's decidedly theirs by turn 10, I choose not to be a pessemist

True, but she has perfect board knowledge when she moves, and can easily bomb any ship in the 180 degrees of fire in front of her. On an average roll, she'll take out 2/3 of an Interceptor with that first bomb run. On the next turn the odds are high that she can finish it off. Miranda (and warden squadron pilots + sabine) are quite literally the reason that interceptors aren't flown competitively.

Nym is even worse, as with VI, Advanced Sensors, EU and an Autoblaster turret he can dodge two of your arcs guaranteed each turn, while doing reasonable damage in return. Add a bomblet generator and Genius to him and he can do absurd damage while barely even thining about his dial.

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Well, she can't have both Cluster Mines and Bomblet generator . Attack from behind for the former and in front for the latter. It's a heck of a test of skill either way.

It is unique (which means it hit generic K-wings far more than Miranda ) and more importantly it does leave her stuck on her shoddy green dial for the following turn, but it still allows her to drop mines anywhere in that huge 'bunch of grapes' pattern. She just can't do it two turns in a row - but when you're talking TIE interceptors, being caught even once can be curtains...

Sabine crew gives her 3 bomb slots, hence she can. It's also pretty natural to have Sabine on Miranda.

With the bomblet generator, she can afford to take a turn to reset, since there's simply no way the ace she bombed last turn can hit her without dying toaa bomb first.

Ah. Sorry, forgot the extra bomb slot! And with extra munitions that's 2 cluster mines, as well.

Planning an attack run on miranda is an exercise in frustration. Because the problems are:

1. She'll be somewhere within that cluster of possible mine locations herself, so whilst you daren't sit within it, you need your arc of fire to cover it.
2. She can use her twin laser turret to cover any position you might be shooting at her from. Yes, a TIE interceptor with autothrusters and a stack of tokens isn't going to get hit. The problem is that she'll be recovering a shield when she fires, meaning you need to do at least 2 damage to have any of it stick, and at range 3 with just a focused 3-dice attack that ain't easy.
3. I guess you can get a shot if you can park yourself at range 3 between about 2 o'clock and 3 o'clock of their starting position, facing more or less perpendicular to her direction of travel. That should give you a shot if she goes straight or turns in your direction.
4. If she turns away, do not chase her! Break off, and come in again in a turn or so. Every time I've chased Miranda Doni I've paid over the odds for it in broken ships.

28 minutes ago, Astech said:

Assuming that they'll mess up before you do is assuming that they're less skilled than you. When planning a list it's normally best to do the opposite.

Definitely.

Don't get me wrong; Autothruster Aces are still fun to use, and can be useful game pieces. What isn't a great idea is a squad consisting entirely of them, because when you face something which is pretty much a hard counter, every asset in your squad is in trouble simultaneously.

Pure arc-dodger aces doesn't really work any more than pure jousters or whatever. Either mixed squads (like the classic 'Ace and Swarm') or squads with hybrid units tend to be more effective:

• PS10-11 'imperial alpha strike' is a high PS missile squad.....but Vader and The Inquisitor are capable of playing arc dodger with great aplomb once the missiles are away....
• Striker swarms have the manouvrability to play arc dodger (or at least make other arc dodger's lives difficult) but 3 x 5 attack dice is enough firepower to play jouster when inevitably they find themselves facing a turret.
• Nym and Miranda can play missile boat, bomber and arc dodger at the same time.

On 11/18/2017 at 0:52 AM, Jimbawa said:

(As a note, our store TO has ruled that a Deadeye focus can be used as a target lock for all attacks, making it the default action on those ships.)

This really bothers me. I'd be very upset with a TO that pulled this kind of BS. It is well within a TO's right to make a ruling on something that is ambiguous or doesn't have a clear FAQ entry to deal with a problematic situation that comes up in a game. But it is ABSOLUTELY not OK for a TO to just make up or change rules to suit their fancy. There is no ambiguity with how Deadeye works, and this goes beyond the TO's 'rights'/duties. As if deadeye needed help! Ordnance carriers are already arguably too strong, and this 'buff' makes them even better. I would hate to play in an environment such as this, because obviously it becomes incredibly stale very quick (since everyone is going to build deadeye lists! How is it fun to face the same list archetype over and over again???)

Anyway, rant over.

If the majority of opposing squads are in the PS 4-6 range, there is no point in using VI (unless there are some high PS lists common enough to make it worthwhile). I'd say this is the 'best' list for dealing specifically with a deadeye meta:

RAC w/ adapt, hotshot co-pilot, gunner, kylo, dauntless & engine = 64

Vader w/ lone wolf, X-1, ATC & engine = 36

100

On the first turn of shooting, you are effectively eliminating two missiles: kylo a blinded pilot on the ship that Vader has locked and vader's shot should take care of that; plus RAC's shot on a 2nd ship will strip focus w/ hotshot. That puts a 3 ship list in quite a bad opening position (even a 4 ship list). Vader's only weakness is if Blackone Poe is common (although RAC can probably deal with Poe pretty well)

Alternatively, X-7 glaives + Quickdraw is also really good (although I know you mentioned being tired of running QD):

2 Glaives w/ X-7 & crackshot = 33 x 2

QD w/ crackshot (or VI), title, FCS & LWF = 34

100

If you want a break from Quickdraw, Inquisitor w/ prockets fits in there, or even just a third Glaive kitted as the other two.

This list does not like to see Dash + Miranda though (inquisitor is slightly better for that match-up). Although you can still win if you are really good at flying defenders unpredictably (i.e., not using 3+ speed moves all the time!) and if you can keep Quickdraw from dying early.

The new Gunboat is also going to make mince-meat of some of these kinds of squads, so you will be able to use that option soon (PS 4 Rho's just destroy anything PS 3 or less and can pull off a surprise block with SLAM against PS 5+ when needed, although it isn't often necessary).

For example, my upcoming Regionals list is going to be:

Fel w/ PTL, title, AT & TC = 34

2 Rho's w/ crackshot, XG-1, HLC, linked & LRS = 32 x 2

98

This squad would easily obliterate low PS alpha lists. Higher PS alphas will be more problematic unless they take the Fel bait (in which case the Rho's teach them the error of their ways).

The TO made the deadeye clarification because a lot of newer players were asking about it and he couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't work that way, based on how it was written. There's a few threads about it in the rules section where myself and a few other regulars were trying to find some hard evidence to support the traditional ruling but didn't get anything better than "that's how we've done it for so long" or "I don't like it working that way".

I have run almost that exact RAC setup against the deadeye lists with QD as a wingman and do find against it, although I had for a long while used marksmanship on QD to get those crits through. There's only 1 player who always plays rebel jousters and almost always brings Rey with either Poe, Miranda or Nym but only Nym uses VI to get above PS9. We have a bit of a back and forth rivalry and end up building lists specifically to counter each other.

I'm considering toying around with an HLC gunboat, although I might as well embrace the local ruling and toss Deadeye on it. Makes that focus token awfully versatile even with just a cannon.

1 hour ago, Jimbawa said:

The TO made the deadeye clarification because a lot of newer players were asking about it and he couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't work that way, based on how it was written. There's a few threads about it in the rules section where myself and a few other regulars were trying to find some hard evidence to support the traditional ruling but didn't get anything better than "that's how we've done it for so long" or "I don't like it working that way".

All you have to do is read the dead eye text: "you may treat the 'Attack [target lock]:' header as 'Attack [focus]:'. When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may spend a focus token instead."

Where in that text is it ambiguous as to what it does? Where does it say that it lets you treat the focus token as a target lock token? No where. There is no clarification or ambiguity here. This is a permissive rule-set. You can only 'break rules' if a card lets you. Deadeye does not say anything in the nature of 'treat focus tokens as if they were target lock tokens'. Reading comprehension for the win!

I'm only harping on this because I think its a terrible idea (not to mention its breaking the rules!). But if you like it that way, then that's fine.

3 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

All you have to do is read the dead eye text: "you may treat the 'Attack [target lock]:' header as 'Attack [focus]:'. When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may spend a focus token instead."

Where in that text is it ambiguous as to what it does? Where does it say that it lets you treat the focus token as a target lock token? No where. There is no clarification or ambiguity here. This is a permissive rule-set. You can only 'break rules' if a card lets you. Deadeye does not say anything in the nature of 'treat focus tokens as if they were target lock tokens'. Reading comprehension for the win!

I'm only harping on this because I think its a terrible idea (not to mention its breaking the rules!). But if you like it that way, then that's fine.

I'm not particularly a fan of the ruling, but it does seem like it's valid. They are doing precisely what the card says.

If you can use Deadeye with missiles that do not require you to spend your target lock, you are only using the first clause. This is unanimously accepted across all games I've ever played in, as a legal use of deadeye and as acknowledgement that you are only using part of deadeye. Likewise, if you were to use a friendly targeting sync to treat the header as Attack (): instead of Attack (target lock): and still spend your focus to fire it, that is certainly allowed by the same reasoning, using only the second clause. So we have precedence where you can choose to use either just the first clause or just the second clause of deadeye, and they are not inextricably linked.

The next piece of evidence was no where does "the attack" specify you must spend a target lock. Instead, from the FAQ, we were given a list of game effects that instruct you to spend a target lock. The cost to fire a missile, the use or activation of a pilot ability and the rerolling of attack dice during the modify dice step are all explicitly defined as such game effects.

If the token cost of a missile or torpedo is a game effect during an attack, and qualifies as the attack instructing you to spend the target lock, the other instances of similar game effects that instruct you to spend a target lock must also be valid triggers and uses of deadeye. Therefore, a ship with deadeye could use it's focus as a target lock when instructed to for ordnance, attack dice rerolls, and pilot abilities that activate during an attack. That was the general idea of why it was allowed.

If you have strong evidence why any part of that wouldn't work and why we should overturn that ruling, I will gladly take it up with my TO again and watch deadeye fade into the background.