Okay, so maybe I'm not good enough yet but I HATE the condition of the Harpoon Missiles. I LOVE that I can keep my TL, but hate the condition. I take Harpoons only because they are 1 point less than Homers.

Is there a workaround?

As in, before starting the game can you agree with your opponent to not apply and receive the condition? I'm talking about at a tournament. Are you allowed to make agreements with your opponent like this before a game starts? I know THEE ZACK MATTHEWS CAROLINA KRAYTS PODCAST often offers opponents the opportunity to go straight to final salvo - so can you do this?

My guess is no, since you can't partially resolve a card effect if it doesn't say "you may".

I haven't got Guns for Hire yet; but I do wonder if keeping track of "harpooned" conditions when there are several ships equipped with them will be more of a pain in the *** than the benefit they bring.

Which is weird, because I don't feel like this about anything else in the game.

25 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Okay, so maybe I'm not good enough yet but I HATE the condition of the Harpoon Missiles. I LOVE that I can keep my TL, but hate the condition. I take Harpoons only because they are 1 point less than Homers.

Is there a workaround?

As in, before starting the game can you agree with your opponent to not apply and receive the condition? I'm talking about at a tournament. Are you allowed to make agreements with your opponent like this before a game starts? I know THEE ZACK MATTHEWS CAROLINA KRAYTS PODCAST often offers opponents the opportunity to go straight to final salvo - so can you do this?

I'm not understanding what it is about the condition you don't like. The effect? Keeping up with the tokens? A combination of both? For me, the condition is the best part of the missiles. Forces the opponent to take a risk by not getting rid of it, or potentially taking damage to avoid further damage.

14 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

I'm not understanding what it is about the condition you don't like. The effect? Keeping up with the tokens? A combination of both? For me, the condition is the best part of the missiles. Forces the opponent to take a risk by not getting rid of it, or potentially taking damage to avoid further damage.

Here's how it works for me, usually:

1) I fire missile and stick somebody.

2) Then all my ships wind up in range one of the harpooned ship.

3) The harpooned condition goes off and damages all my ships.

Just take concussion missiles then.

You will on average, with G.Chips, get four hits, one might even be a crit if your primary attack is 3.

22 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

Just take concussion missiles then.

You will on average, with G.Chips, get four hits, one might even be a crit if your primary attack is 3.

I've thought about that and I would... but you lose the Target Lock with Concussions. That is the one reason I take Harpoons.

31 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Here's how it works for me, usually:

1) I fire missile and stick somebody.

2) Then all my ships wind up in range one of the harpooned ship.

3) The harpooned condition goes off and damages all my ships.

This is why harpoon missiles are actually balanced with most other missiles and torps. You get the best missile at 4 points, but you give your opponent free Dead Man's Switch, and you better have good strats and execution if you want to avoid your own splash damage. Harpooned! is a complex condition, but it does create very interesting game situations, which I like immensely.

In which case, I would highly recommend ensuring you can get a crit on the ship in the same turn but after the condition is applied, getting maximum damage and removing the condition.

Another Kirhaxz with harpoon or cruise missiles, or a Scyk with a mangled cannon.

I have used two kirhaxz with harps, and two Scyks with mangers to great effect. As I too am afraid of handing my opponent a pseudo deadmans switch.

17 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I've thought about that and I would... but you lose the Target Lock with Concussions. That is the one reason I take Harpoons.

Maybe just give concussion missiles a go? If you really don't like Harpoons they're the closest thing to it. Combo'd with Guidance Chips you can change up to 2 blanks to hits (blank to hit with conc, result to hit/crit with chimps), and in a lot of cases that's better than a re-roll.

Just now, BVRCH said:

Maybe just give concussion missiles a go? If you really don't like Harpoons they're the closest thing to it. Combo'd with Guidance Chips you can change up to 2 blanks to hits (blank to hit with conc, result to hit/crit with chimps), and in a lot of cases that's better than a re-roll.

I actually REALLY like Concussion missiles and think they are underrated. I flew them a lot with Miranda and they bring the pain.

But I'm talking GUNBOAT, and with that thing you REALLY don't want to lose your Target Lock!

1 hour ago, Boba Rick said:

Okay, so maybe I'm not good enough yet but I HATE the condition of the Harpoon Missiles. I LOVE that I can keep my TL, but hate the condition. I take Harpoons only because they are 1 point less than Homers.

Is there a workaround?

As in, before starting the game can you agree with your opponent to not apply and receive the condition? I'm talking about at a tournament. Are you allowed to make agreements with your opponent like this before a game starts? I know THEE ZACK MATTHEWS CAROLINA KRAYTS PODCAST often offers opponents the opportunity to go straight to final salvo - so can you do this?

No, you are not allowed to make such agreements. Now if you just forget to assign the condition ...

6 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I actually REALLY like Concussion missiles and think they are underrated. I flew them a lot with Miranda and they bring the pain.

But I'm talking GUNBOAT, and with that thing you REALLY don't want to lose your Target Lock!

There it is. I was wondering if this was why you wanted to hold that lock.

Maybe pair the missile gunboat with a mangler xg1 title gunboat. Set off the condition the same turn you apply it.

11 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I actually REALLY like Concussion missiles and think they are underrated. I flew them a lot with Miranda and they bring the pain.

But I'm talking GUNBOAT, and with that thing you REALLY don't want to lose your Target Lock!

Ah I see. Well in that case, if you're 100% off harpoons, you could either run Karsabi with Wired and just not worry about the weapons disabled token. Otherwise Homing Missiles is probably your best option for generics. I guess you could lose the chips for advanced slam, but that will end up being more expensive than bumping up to homings, and less consistent in terms of damage output.

Just now, BVRCH said:

Ah I see. Well in that case, if you're 100% off harpoons, you could either run Karsabi with Wired and just not worry about the weapons disabled token. Otherwise Homing Missiles is probably your best option for generics. I guess you could lose the chips for advanced slam, but that will end up being more expensive than bumping up to homings, and less consistent in terms of damage output.

Hmmmm....

Okay, sidebar: I need one point to switch from Harpoons to Homers.

I can get that one point in my list by going from Pattern Analyzer to Primed Thrusters . I don't have a lot of experience with either card - how big of a difference is there?

This is the other 70 points of my list:

“Quickdraw” (35) Special Forces TIE (29), Adaptability (0), Fire-Control System (2), Pattern Analyzer (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Colonel Vessery (35) TIE Defender (35), Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

The condition is mandatory, and agreeing not to apply it with an opponent at a tournament would be cheating and collusion.

10 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Hmmmm....

Okay, sidebar: I need one point to switch from Harpoons to Homers.

I can get that one point in my list by going from Pattern Analyzer to Primed Thrusters . I don't have a lot of experience with either card - how big of a difference is there?

This is the other 70 points of my list:

“Quickdraw” (35) Special Forces TIE (29), Adaptability (0), Fire-Control System (2), Pattern Analyzer (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Colonel Vessery (35) TIE Defender (35), Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

Pattern Analyzer is good on Quickdraw, but it probably can be skipped entirely for points.

Considered A Score to Settle? It's almost like a free Expertise. I mean, not really, but kinda maybe.

15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Pattern Analyzer is good on Quickdraw, but it probably can be skipped entirely for points.

Considered A Score to Settle? It's almost like a free Expertise. I mean, not really, but kinda maybe.

I have! But as previously illustrated a condition like this would definitely backfire!

33 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Hmmmm....

Okay, sidebar: I need one point to switch from Harpoons to Homers.

I can get that one point in my list by going from Pattern Analyzer to Primed Thrusters . I don't have a lot of experience with either card - how big of a difference is there?

This is the other 70 points of my list:

“Quickdraw” (35) Special Forces TIE (29), Adaptability (0), Fire-Control System (2), Pattern Analyzer (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Colonel Vessery (35) TIE Defender (35), Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

I find that Primed Thrusters is fine on Quickdraw, Pattern Analyzer is handy to get the focus for defense, but with her ability in particular, being able to barrel roll to ensure you have arc is always a good thing considering you need to take damage to trigger the double tap. Unrestricted repositioning at PS10 once her shields are down is also very helpful. If you want to run Homing Missiles I would recommend dropping to Primed Thrusters.

Had a game yesterday - My Talonbane harpoons Fenn Rau who tried to arc-dodge but didnt quite pull it off (PS11 TBane vs PTL Fenn) and so no tokens (and rolled 2 focus 1 evade, so no autothrusters... kek!) and he got down to 1 hull and blinded on top of that with weapons failure... I tried to finish him off with another ship but he evaded. He took 4 turns to run away and come back, he ended up firing twice for the entire game but when I killed him, the explosion finished off Talonbane who was on 1 hull and damaged another one of my ships.

Its scary but Harpoon is too strong anyway so the risk of having the splash damage affect you isn't so bad - hats off to an opponent that uses this against you.

7 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

I've thought about that and I would... but you lose the Target Lock with Concussions. That is the one reason I take Harpoons.

Let them eat cake!...

... no, that's not it ...

You can't make a cake without brea-...

... no, NO, that's not it either ...

... ... hmmm, I'm sure there's a saying about 'cake' that applies in this situation!

I really don't understand. In 30+ games with over 90 Harpoons shot I got splash damage maybe 5 times - once with all three ships and once with two, and in both times I really messed up. One time I was so afraid of the splash that I didn't kill Dash which cost me the game.

My lessons out of it are:

1. Don't be afraid of the splash damage. Removing a ship is way more important than your own HP (if and only if you survive the splash of course!)
2. Splash can be good with QD
3. Focus fire your Harpoons, don't spread the conditions around unless you really have to
4. Fly better. Ending all 3 ships in range 1 of the harpoon means you made a mistake. If it's that important to you then you can TL with one ship to see where range 1 ends, so the others can roll out if necessary. But it's of course better to learn to estimate the range

10 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I really don't understand. In 30+ games with over 90 Harpoons shot I got splash damage maybe 5 times - once with all three ships and once with two, and in both times I really messed up. One time I was so afraid of the splash that I didn't kill Dash which cost me the game.

My lessons out of it are:

1. Don't be afraid of the splash damage. Removing a ship is way more important than your own HP (if and only if you survive the splash of course!)
2. Splash can be good with QD
3. Focus fire your Harpoons, don't spread the conditions around unless you really have to
4. Fly better. Ending all 3 ships in range 1 of the harpoon means you made a mistake. If it's that important to you then you can TL with one ship to see where range 1 ends, so the others can roll out if necessary. But it's of course better to learn to estimate the range

Thanks. Great advice there.

If I go with Harpoons that give me back a point. Which option would you choose for Quickdraw:

1) Adaptability and Pattern Analyzer.

2) VI and Primed Thrusters.

19 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

I actually REALLY like Concussion missiles and think they are underrated. I flew them a lot with Miranda and they bring the pain.

But I'm talking GUNBOAT, and with that thing you REALLY don't want to lose your Target Lock!

Without knowing the dial, I’m just going to guess that Cruise Missiles are better on MISSILEBOATs anyway, and you probably want Deadeye either way.

And no true GUNBOAT takes the Arsenal Loadout. That’s for MISSILEBOATs, which are not GUNBOATs.

46 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Thanks. Great advice there.

If I go with Harpoons that give me back a point. Which option would you choose for Quickdraw:

1) Adaptability and Pattern Analyzer.

2) VI and Primed Thrusters.

PS10 is often enough (if you have a bid!), but I really dislike deploying at PS9 and before these PS10 targets as it makes the approach way harder for me. I tried a 10/10/9 list where QD had Ascore to settle, to trigger the harpoons and to have double mods, but that did not work as well for me. Maybe it would by now?

So I would definitely go with VI, as that worked best for me, but adaptability might be enough.

and for the tech slot: pattern is definitely better, but I flew without either and that still worked well. LWF is more missed, so maybe sensor cluster for later might be worth considering?

My take on Harpoons is this, If they didn't explode when it hit you how can it do 4 damage. They should have stated if the attack hits, cancel any results and suffer 2 damage, then gain the harpooned condition. Or at the very least made you spend your TL to use it. Right now it's totally OP, and an NPE to play against it.