Kakita Yoshi is such a colossal ******. I can understand if there's a lack of resources (as hinted at by Kachiko's talk with the Emperor), but he's really coming across as refusing any request Taka has because it's the Crab making the request, and the Crane are still sore about the Yasuki Wars.

Also, did Yoritomo just sneak into Otosan Uchi and kidnap the Yasuki daimyo?

2 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Kakita Yoshi is such a colossal ******. I can understand if there's a lack of resources (as hinted at by Kachiko's talk with the Emperor), but he's really coming across as refusing any request Taka has because it's the Crab making the request, and the Crane are still sore about the Yasuki Wars.

To be fair, the betrayal of the Yasuki is supposed to be such a deep seated grudge that Cranes don't even deal with Yasuki in inter clan discussions, the Hiruma have to go instead be the diplomats instead if I'm remembering it right.

Kachiko sending Taka to Yoshi was a cruelty to the poor Yasuki.

13 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Kachiko sending Taka to Yoshi was a cruelty to the poor Yasuki.

And a move calculated to impair any possible improvement in relations between the two.

Meanwhile... apparently the Mantis may or may not be a recognized Minor Clan, but are regarded as a criminal scourge that endangers the coastline. Bad form, Kakita-san... to admit that the entire might of the Empire couldn't protect ANY marine shipment from a few pirates? Stupid Crane.

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

And a move calculated to impair any possible improvement in relations between the two.

Meanwhile... apparently the Mantis may or may not be a recognized Minor Clan, but are regarded as a criminal scourge that endangers the coastline. Bad form, Kakita-san... to admit that the entire might of the Empire couldn;t rpotect ANY marine shipment from a few pirates? Stupid Crane.

"It would be bad for the cran-"
"If the wall ever fails the last thing you will worry about will be some poor pirates, now give me some jade you preening peacock."

It takes a lot for me to agree with a crab, but goodness.

Just gives a bad impression of Imperial weakness and irresolution, even though it's clearly just a Crane being a jerk to deny a request he doesn't want to grant.

Can somebody post a link I can actually read?

22 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

Can somebody post a link I can actually read?

https://i.imgur.com/xze1XWg.png

Probably just because of Game of Thrones but the "Outside supernatural threat will doom us all because everyone behind the wall is too busy doing political backstabbing" is getting tiresome. I know it is a trope from L5R's beginnings, but evil is scarier when everyone is making good decisions and they are still threatened.

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Meanwhile... apparently the Mantis may or may not be a recognized Minor Clan, but are regarded as a criminal scourge that endangers the coastline. Bad form, Kakita-san... to admit that the entire might of the Empire couldn't protect ANY marine shipment from a few pirates? Stupid Crane.

Either we are a recognized Minor Clan and the prohibition against warring on Minor Clans is working in our favor(Bwahaha)

Or we aren't currently recognized and the Crane and Imperial Bureaucracy are so weak that they can't deal with a rogue Clan (What's that? Lost the Blessings of the Heavens?).

Kinda makes me wonder if we got 'disbanded' after the Gusai Incident.

20 minutes ago, Coyote Walks said:

https://i.imgur.com/xze1XWg.png

Thanks! Dis is gettin' gud.

12 minutes ago, Coyote Walks said:

Either we are a recognized Minor Clan and the prohibition against warring on Minor Clans is working in our favor(Bwahaha)

Or we aren't currently recognized and the Crane and Imperial Bureaucracy are so weak that they can't deal with a rogue Clan (What's that? Lost the Blessings of the Heavens?).

Kinda makes me wonder if we got 'disbanded' after the Gusai Incident.

Regardless of which interpretation you go with, Yoshi's basically thrown his entire Clans military ability under the Kobune , and in front of the Yasuki Daimyo, no less.

I can't imagine the Daidoji being very happy when they learn that apparently, according to the Kakita Daimyo, they're to weak to fend off a Minor Clan.

... do you think Yoritomo's gonna offer the Yasuki part of his Crane loot to reinforce the Wall, in return for them helping get the Mantis recognized as a proper Clan/Great Clan?

7 minutes ago, Mangod said:

... do you think Yoritomo's gonna offer the Yasuki part of his Crane loot to reinforce the Wall, in return for them helping get the Mantis recognized as a proper Clan/Great Clan?

Storywise, I think that Yoritomo will help the Crab. But I don't want to guess what the price will be yet.

Meta-wise, if FFG is going to use those Art Assets they have from The Blackest Storm , the Mantis are going to need just as much help as the Crab.

38 minutes ago, Coyote Walks said:

...

Kinda makes me wonder if we got 'disbanded' after the Gusai Incident.

Then, someone needs to ‘teach us’ the Nothing. ... Followed by the Lust for Undone. ?

51 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Probably just because of Game of Thrones but the "Outside supernatural threat will doom us all because everyone behind the wall is too busy doing political backstabbing" is getting tiresome. I know it is a trope from L5R's beginnings, but evil is scarier when everyone is making good decisions and they are still threatened.

According to Kachiko (assuming she's telling the truth, of course), there really IS little material aid the Empire can offer the Crab. She notes to the Emperor that foodstocks across the Empire are barely enough to feed everyone as it is, while the existing jade mines are close to exhaustion. Now, one could argue that the Emperor should direct the clans to send TROOPS to assist the Crab, but that runs into a dramatic problem--it begins to move the story in the direction of "everyone vs the BBE (Big Bad Evil))...and it's pretty clear that FFG wants to avoid that, at least for the time being. In-setting, it could be argued that more troops on the Wall are all very well and fine, but that would correspondingly require more jade that no one has.

In any case, it's not JUST political scheming that's preoccupying the clans...there are genuine constraints on how much aid the Empire can provide to the Crab.

If you believe Kachiko.

4 minutes ago, DGLaderoute said:

According to Kachiko (assuming she's telling the truth, of course), there really IS little material aid the Empire can offer the Crab. She notes to the Emperor that foodstocks across the Empire are barely enough to feed everyone as it is, while the existing jade mines are close to exhaustion. Now, one could argue that the Emperor should direct the clans to send TROOPS to assist the Crab, but that runs into a dramatic problem--it begins to move the story in the direction of "everyone vs the BBE (Big Bad Evil))...and it's pretty clear that FFG wants to avoid that, at least for the time being. In-setting, it could be argued that more troops on the Wall are all very well and fine, but that would correspondingly require more jade that no one has.

In any case, it's not JUST political scheming that's preoccupying the clans...there are genuine constraints on how much aid the Empire can provide to the Crab.

If you believe Kachiko.

Or your armies should be put to use locating and exploiting more resources instead of expending resources fighting over the same scrap of land over and over again.

1 minute ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Or your armies should be put to use locating and exploiting more resources instead of expending resources fighting over the same scrap of land over and over again.

You're assuming they're not doing this. Kachiko even notes that "no new jade mines are being located to replace the ones nearing exhaustion". We also know that the most fertile lands of the Crane, who normally have large food surpluses (which is where a LOT of their political clout comes from) have none because of the damage done by tsunamis (which is why they have much LESS political clout now). Now, it's not clear how much effort the Empire really is putting into finding new jade mines or developing more arable land somewhere, true. But the back-text suggests that they are putting at least some effort into this.

It occurs to me that by making sure no Imperial aid is forthcoming the Scorpion have ensured their offer is the only viable one on the table. Which would leave the Crab indebted to them of course.

I'm betting Yoritomo plans to ransom Taka back to the Crab.

4 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

I'm betting Yoritomo plans to ransom Taka back to the Crab.

I don't see how a ransom would help the Mantis. Ransoming someone who has nothing extra isn't usually a good strategy. I'm betting Yoritomo will make a deal with Taka to have the Mantis support the Crab, but in exchange the Crab will need to support the Mantis in a bid to become a Great Clan. The Mantis probably have resources that the other Great Clans don't. Just don't ask us where we got them.

17 minutes ago, DGLaderoute said:

You're assuming they're not doing this. Kachiko even notes that "no new jade mines are being located to replace the ones nearing exhaustion". We also know that the most fertile lands of the Crane, who normally have large food surpluses (which is where a LOT of their political clout comes from) have none because of the damage done by tsunamis (which is why they have much LESS political clout now). Now, it's not clear how much effort the Empire really is putting into finding new jade mines or developing more arable land somewhere, true. But the back-text suggests that they are putting at least some effort into this.

I don't need to assume. They clearly put out that the Crane and Lion are tossing away men and material against each other. The Dragon, Scorpion, and so on are sitting back and not staging big expeditions into foreign lands. Every samurai you see fight and die in a story could've been another body hunting down resources or conquering new lands.

If we ally with the Mantis, do we need to repeat the path of letting the Shadowlands in?

Can we just unofficially support the Mantis for all our military equipment and manpower needs? Seems like the next best thing to rebellion. And everybody wins. Except Crane.

30 minutes ago, Horizonshard said:

I don't see how a ransom would help the Mantis. Ransoming someone who has nothing extra isn't usually a good strategy. I'm betting Yoritomo will make a deal with Taka to have the Mantis support the Crab, but in exchange the Crab will need to support the Mantis in a bid to become a Great Clan. The Mantis probably have resources that the other Great Clans don't. Just don't ask us where we got them.

What do you mean nothing extra? He's the Yasuki Daimyo. That makes him one of the wealthiest men in the Empire by default.

Of course there's any number of people who'd could be paying him to acquire a high value hostage. That's the thing about mercenaries, they then to have someone else pulling their strings.

8 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

What do you mean nothing extra? He's the Yasuki Daimyo. That makes him one of the wealthiest men in the Empire by default.

Of course there's any number of people who'd could be paying him to acquire a high value hostage. That's the thing about mercenaries, they then to have someone else pulling their strings.

My take from the fiction was that the Crab Clan is sending the majority, if not all, of their resources to Wall. Yes the Yasuki family is wealthy and have extra gold laying around, but ransoming back Taka to the Yasuki for some gold really wastes the opportunity Yoritomo has here. It would be a temporary gain of wealth and piss off the Crab.

It would be much better to "kidnap" the Yasuki daimyo so that Yoritomo can have a real talk with him outside of the Imperial Capital. It is in Yoritomo's (and thus the Mantis Clan's) best interest to ally with the Crab so they can get some support when petitioning to be a Great Clan / Minor Clan in the future.

2 minutes ago, Horizonshard said:

My take from the fiction was that the Crab Clan is sending the majority, if not all, of their resources to Wall. Yes the Yasuki family is wealthy and have extra gold laying around, but ransoming back Taka to the Yasuki for some gold really wastes the opportunity Yoritomo has here. It would be a temporary gain of wealth and piss off the Crab.

It would be much better to "kidnap" the Yasuki daimyo so that Yoritomo can have a real talk with him outside of the Imperial Capital. It is in Yoritomo's (and thus the Mantis Clan's) best interest to ally with the Crab so they can get some support when petitioning to be a Great Clan / Minor Clan in the future.

If the Mantis become a Great Clan, they are prevented from pillaging? Wouldn't it be more profitable to freely raid and have hidden ports/hideouts in Crab lands and give them a cut?

2 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

If the Mantis become a Great Clan, they are prevented from pillaging? Wouldn't it be more profitable to freely raid and have hidden ports/hideouts in Crab lands and give them a cut?

Some underhanded techniques that the Scorpion use are prevented by law, that doesn't stop them. The Mantis being recognized would be a good thing so they can have some influence and not just be pirates and mercenaries. That doesn't mean we'll stop pillaging, just means that it'll have to be hidden.