I don't actually really want a solution to Caldara. Yes, she's potentially powerful. But that's why Caldara decks are so much more popular than they were before. I don't think abolishing a power deck type is necessarily a step forward for the game...

But if we have a solution, I'd prefer a card-based limit rather than a hero-based limit. I'm fine with resurrection cards removing themselves from the pool -- they're expensive cards that are unlikely to be recurred in the first place unless you're exploiting a discard ability, and limiting the discard ability immediately makes the hero worse. Companion decks can resurrect Caldara more easily but also dilute the impact of her effect.

So impact numbers on the seriously affected cards:

Hama decks at ringsdb: 189. All less powerful than they were yesterday

Caldara decks at ringsdb: 123. All less powerful than they were yesterday.

TaBoromir decks at ringsdb: 283. All less powerful than they were yesterday.

We Are Not Idle decks at ringsdb: 483. Almost all (few may just use it for shrinking the deck) less powerful than they were yesterday.

And for the beneficiaries:

Out of the Wild/Keen as Lances decks at ringsdb: 94 decks. Some portion of those (those not intending to recur OOTW) more powerful than they were yesterday.

Fringe cases:

Wandering Took/Song of Earendil/Vanish from Sight: 7 decks

Wingfoot/Eleanor/Doughty Ranger: 3 decks

Other Doughty Ranger decks: 2 decks

A bit sad about Boromir and Hama, as I used to use them a fair bit, but I don't actually remember the last time I played either of them, so It's not terrible either. I never tried a Caldara deck, and I probably never will.

They all seem fairly sensible, to be honest.

Dale, How many OotW combined with Scroll of Isildur for recurrence?

I count 49 decks that combine OOTW with Scroll of Isildur, 30 of which use Keen As Lances. One of my decks (Rossiel deck) falls in that category, since it's a monosphere deck I wanted SoI in there. But it wasn't targetting Out of the Wild in particular, starting at 19 threat I only had 2 turns for its secrecy discount, and there are *lots* of green events to recur.

i'm not going to be polite, nor makes friends, and i honestly don't mind, coz let's say it... FFG and designers like caleb are poison to their own games. wich is amazing by the way ! (the game i mean !) (but wich could be so much better with the right manager...)

1st : I don't mind the BAN, please yourself if you feel like it. Maybe this time you will read what people are actually saying to you ? (coz about your game, looks like you never read our returns...)

Caleb ? Sir ? Are you playing your own game sometimes ?

Those nerfs, are just such a poor work... Escpecially for archetype that are alive for many cycles / years now... So What's the point... ?

I'm not saying boromir did'nt need a small adjustement but this... It's like if Sean Bean just died once again...

And Hama... ? What's that for a "nerf" ? And Caldara... what's that poor rework... ?

how about reworking the "smart" way for a change ?

Fact is, lukas (star wars destiny - Thank god that one left the boat !) and caleb are the same kind of designers : They actually might not playing their own game like they should... or listen their playtesters, like they should... ?

So Caleb... ? Who are the next ones ? Aragorn tactic ? (Wich is even better/worst to the game than Boromir ?) Nor Elrond maybe ? (coz he's healing WAY TOO MUCH don't you think ? It's not a good stuff for our game right ? You surely have to nerf those aswell !)

and how about nerfing Bilbo and Dori ? coz they're so usefull to this game right ?

So basically, you nerf Hama, for basically what... 1 card ? One combo that you don't like ? Ticket of spears... A combo that is alive for Years now.. And that no one cares about anymore... Coz people learn to play with, or without it... So basically, if you don't like ticket combo, Why don't you just bloody Nerf that Thicket like some others cards : With a simple "add to victory display" after using... ?????

That way you kill that "annoying" combo, but you still keep Hama alive !

But no... You just make it the no brainer way... And kills an other hero...

3 Heroes are strongly nerfed (or killed here), but have you ever played any of the nightmares or very hard quest in your own game ? Don't you realize that some of those "O.P" archetypes / heroes, are needed ? Like an "Evil Necessary ?" Do you ? No... of course you don't...

Sorry to be that "hatred guy" but someday people have to stand up against too many bull ! not especially for this game, but for many of ffg games out there !

This is not a new way of making bull for you, as i remember the Nerf for "Horn of Gondor" wich has been made for like what... 2 decks "abusing" it ? **** yeah, such a great vision of making the job there aswell !

Caleb... Lukas... Same fight... Really...

And If i just want to say you thank you ! for creating this game ! Coz we all love it, A LOT !

But maybe, now, it's just the time to leave the boat and or AT LEAST, listening to the people trying to work with you ! Giving you advices on cards / quests during the creation process...

Coz nerfing just coz christmass is nice ! really ! especially with your tight vision of the game, but have you ever thought about :

BOOSTING some cards and Heroes for a change ?

Cards Like... i don't know : Bilbo (wich cost 9 instead of 6 or 7 like he should ?) for exemple ?

Nor like DORI wich is one of the bullshitiest character ever created ?

Or even small cards like those "Rangers from the north" that we shuffle into the encounter decks wich got NO BLOODY SHADOW EFFECT ON THEM ? (would have been great you know... to have a simple "shadow effect that says : deal 2 damage to the defending character" don't you think ?)

And the Roomcream on the cake is probably : your amazing way of choosing your heroes : TOM COTON !!!!???????!!!!????? Really... Really FFG ? TOM COTON... ? Is that how you want to ends up your Saga... ? With a hobbit that no bloody one cares about ? interresting ability sure... BUT How about Frodo and Sam v2 ? Or Bilbo V2 (a real playable version of bilbo ?) No ? really, you prefer a TOM COTON to end your saga story... ? Waaaaaaah... what an Amazing choice here... i can even say that this choice is probably the Designer Award Winner of the century !

God... So many award around you ffg...

Anyway... I'm probably just a raging guy right ? You all got right, those are just masterpiece works and reworks !

Keep up the good works guys... I can't wait the next changes to come in 3 years !

BTW, Nerfing a Co Op game, especially when you make it the poor and bad way... it's a piece of art in itself ! Good Job on that ! ^^

I wish that at least : you offer something else than .pdf for those nerfed and reworked cards... Something like a Pack on Print on demand, contening all those crap your reworks for us.. That we could purchase for you to make money for your awesome job !

Take care everyone.

I'm done with ffg for a long while now.

I rarely agree with the errata FFG makes (for player cards, as broken encounter cards are much more harmful than player cards), but let's see:

Wandering Took: Now in line with blue mountain trader. Can't complain.

Boromir: Lost his ability and now has a build in armored destrier for 1 threat. Still usable, but ofc much weaker. The theme took a hit for me, too. It was always easy to imagine Boromir giving everything to stop the endless stream of enemies, now the former brave suicidal gondorian combat machine is more like "hey I could block his hit and counterattack, did anyone EVER hear of such madness?" And I will ignore the Errata for the last three quests of the Saga. FFG, you will not destroy my carefully buffed trio^^ Will be interesting in how many decks he will make it after that. He isn't weak, but the glory of his past will always overshadow him I fear.

Out of the Wild: The decks based around controlling the encounter deck shouldn't really be hit.

Háma: If the only reason for this change is the one explained in the article I can only completely disagree. One card makes combat obsolete? Sure nerf Háma he really is the prob... Hm? Wait, the card actually making this possible is thicket of spears? Nah looks fine to me just keep it this way... As some others have pointed out you could just make thicket remove itself. Or at least make Háma remove the recycled card. But don't limit him. You already discard a card AND pay for the event. But why do I argue, every deck with Háma had to be butchered, because of one combo. Sure changing him now frees up "design space", would be interesting how many concepts were scrapped because someone was like"Dude! You can't print this, totally broken with Háma!" (but maybe I misjudge Háma and there are tons of OP combos, if someone can think of other ones that require a limitation of Háma, I'd be pleased to read them, but shame on FFG for not at least calling them out...)
I may not like them, but I observe 99% of the errata. Looks like Háma makes the 1%...

We Are Not Idle: Still 0 cost? Check! Still draws a card? Check! Still and auto include and still an amazing combo with lure of moria? CHECK! Shows how strong the card was/is. How many dwarf decks run Dain and how often his he still ready at the end of the round? Pretty save bet this card will generate value by round two, as this didn't get changed into a ressource phase action (did it?) After love of tales it was a matter of time as this one didn't even require a gimmique deck.

Caldara: I have very limited experience with Caldara decks, but I always thought that the ability to get extreme expensive allies out insanly early was what makes her so strong. Ok you can only do it once per game now, what obviously makes her much worse, but does that really limit the deck that much? I'd still give her a chance, if I'd play the deck
It is also funny how FFG says that Caldara is nerved because now way to many cards support her. Good Job! Who would have thought that something like spirit Imrahil would increase her power. Totally blame this on FFG, stuff like Arwen might not be obvious in their interaction with Caldara and are cool on their own, but did we really need a third Imrahil with very little theme, a card you can't think of without Caldara partying through your head and very limited use elsewhere? They just pushed her over the edge and, because every card that overperforms sooner or later gets errata, did not care.

Wingfoot: Whatever. Way to annoyed about Háma, the shortsighted design of cards like spirit Imrahil that are now used to justify the Caldara nerf and dismanteling of Boromir to think much about this one...

I am a little sorry that I cannot really appreciate the thought they put into this as they hoped, but I fear I'm a dead loss concerning errata :S

While I'm no fan of some of the errata, I want to say that Dori is an interesting and thoroughly underrated hero, and I think Tom Cotton is a fine addition to the ranks of Hobbit heroes. The last thing I want is for Caleb to stop designing.

the only thing he should design, is quests (wich are sometimes really nice and great) and the other only thing he should do, would be to : listen what his playtesters are telling him ! That might actually help a lot during the creating process... (avoiding some crap héroes, broken cards, post erratas...)

And i forgot to say that, even when he's a card in a card game : Sean bean find the way to be a dead man !

26 minutes ago, Aorakis said:

i'm not going to be polite, nor makes friends, and i honestly don't mind, coz let's say it... FFG and designers like caleb are poison to their own games. wich is amazing by the way ! (the game i mean !) (but wich could be so much better with the right manager...)

(SNIP)

Take care everyone.

I'm done with ffg.

I hear what you're saying Aorakis, but if you don't like these amends then just ignore them. I've never played with any of the previous changes made by the designers, and have no intention of ever doing so. In fact I've never read any of the FAQs and I've been playing since the beginning!

I don't know if your post means that you are dumping the game but that's a shame if you are. It's too good to drop.

12 minutes ago, JonG said:

I hear what you're saying Aorakis, but if you don't like these amends then just ignore them. I've never played with any of the previous changes made by the designers, and have no intention of ever doing so. In fact I've never read any of the FAQs and I've been playing since the beginning!

I don't know if your post means that you are dumping the game but that's a shame if you are. It's too good to drop.

Well, i like the game a lot, the basic mechanic, the solo playable options, the co op, we got a really nice community here in belgium and some of our people are making this community to live by making 4 to 6 events a years, just for this game !

But as a fan, i don't really agree all those changes they're making... just coz, many of those are just a bad work, a really poor work...

If changes are needed fine, even if this game is not a competitive wich makes those changes/nerfs questionnable...

But changes if they has to be done, could be done much more smartly...

Like not nerfing Horn of gondor for 2 decks (including one that got More than 300 cards in his deck "yeah i never saw that deck on any table i played... they had to nerf that for fure !) nor That Hama's Nerf for what... One card that SIR C Bullcrap did not like to see played ?

I'm not against changes and nerf, but they have to make those smarter than what they're doing.

Coz, and that's for sure, i'll never apply hama's rework ever...

Same for caldara and boromir, there were smarter ways of reworking those aswell...

But they never listen the testers or guys that are bringing real and interresting solution... They're just doing it the way they want.. And here, i say They, but the problem is just a guy that likes having right all along and all the time... (and i'm not talking about me... )

2 hours ago, DarthJalapeno said:

I just bought my third core set to have at least one copy of all cards as written

Also it's going to be a pain remembering how many times I've used Hama as my memory takes a hit with all the stress commingled off the encounter deck.

Would Hama ever have a reason to have Progress tokens on him? If not, you could use those to track usage.

23 minutes ago, Aorakis said:

i'm not going to be polite, nor makes friends...

Sooo... just to be clear... you're saying you don't like the changes!?

I'll be contrary and say I like the changes. Sure, buffing some poor cards would be great, but nerfing OP cards is better. I've not played with Boromir for 2 years because he's lame and boring. And while I'm a bit bummed about Hama, I realize I haven't used him for 2 years either, as the recycle effect can be so potent due to some amazing Tactics events. (However, I'm not a big NM player, so for those players, I can somewhat sympathize.)

Still, if it's that big a deal, play how you want. A tirade accomplishes nothing, and it's obvious Caleb loves the source material and wants the best for players, but they can't please everyone. Also, I say bring on chars like Tom Cotton, which is unexpected and fun. And it's a pro that he's not a pre-existing Hobbit, that way you can try him with any of the prior Hobbits.

I haven't played with Hama yet -- I was constructed a deck to do so when this nerf came along :(.

From my mind, buffing poor cards is better than nerfing "OP" cards. It expands the universe of usable cards, which nerfing does not -- and if the nerf goes too far (e.g. Master of Lore) it actually shrinks the universe of usable cards.

But if you felt that Caldara/Boromir/Hama was overpowered and boring and you haven't played with them in years -- does this new errata make you want to dust them off and build decks around them? If so, then the errata really did benefit you -- if not, then the errata is just ruining someone else's fun.

1 hour ago, Aorakis said:

Complaining about the errata and the design direction is one thing. Calling people disgusting names is another. There is no excuse for your personal insults directed at the developers. You say you don't mind if you get banned and your post gets deleted. I say, delete it yourself.

Complaining about the errata and the design direction is one thing. Calling people disgusting names is another. There is no excuse for your personal insults directed at the developers. You say you don't mind if you get banned and your post gets deleted. I say, delete it yourself.

Thanks, love your work btw !


Before it dies, i bring you my best deck ever !

I passed ALL THE QUEST IN THE GAME with it ! Even nightmares and those quest from Arkham Horror LCG !

Simply to good to be not nerfed !

http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/6882/song-of-caleb-1.0

Wow... Those erratas make some quests now really, really hard to beat in pure solo nightmare mode...

In a positive twist, maybe we can call it replayability value?...

I do wish they would have nerfed up some heroes, like lore Bilbo or tactics Dori.

I'm mostly fine with these erratas except for Caldara. Sure, the deck was top-tier and could beat almost anything, but it was still not invincible and also an iconic, fun and powerful deck. What's wrong with that? I'm reminded of the COTR Law Offices when they invited Matt to defend Caldara, and it was so great. She went from being one of the most neglected heroes on release to one of the best, female and FFG-created at that! ... to finally become unplayable in solo again. Why ruin some of your best achievements? Caldara was not invincible at all to me.

As I said, some of these erratas we saw coming and most are fine. I'm good with these as long as the developers give us some actually good general purpose playable cards and not niche, quirky binder-fodder as has been the case for most of the last couple of cycles.

19 minutes ago, Lecitadin said:

Wow... Those erratas make some quests now really, really hard to beat in pure solo nightmare mode...

I was thinking something along those lines too. Did you have any particular thoughts in mind when you said this, out of curiosity?

I just defeated Blood of Gondor with a Boromir deck, for instance, and I think it just got a lot harder.

And here is a Funny recap from a belgian event we made last weekend :

On 22 players (wich is a lot for an event in small belgium)

Do you want to know how many boromir, caldara and hama were played ?

Boromir : Zéro / None / Nada

Caldara : Zéro / None / Nada

Hama : 1 (with gandalf hero, and no thicket spears into it...)

So... i'm not sure FFG actually understand that a Hero like Boromir nor caldara, are more like a heroes, that advanced players, are (i mean were...) using to make some Nightmares or really hard quest...

or as i said : some necessary evil heroes !

Like Glorfindel 2 for exemple. he's a necessary evil to this CO-OP (not competitive, if they ever forgot about that aswell...) game...

Those kind of heroes, nor decks (like the Caldara one) are a necessary in this game, specially If players want to succeed some of the hardest quest they're purchasing...

(I'm not even sure FFG plays those once and after they made it to be honest...)

So my question is : what are the next nerfs to come then ?

Fast Outlands decks ? Wich can brings like 8 allies into play turn one ? Will they put a Ruling about "you can now only bring/play 4 allies max per turn into play per turn ?" or just nerf Denethor 2 and A very good tale ?

How about Aragorn tactic decks ? Wich can just destroy every enemy into play in a blink of an eye... ?

And about Hama... This is probably one of the worst rework ever made in the card game history...

When ffg will realize that this game is not a competitive game, and that this game need some broken cards/decks into it for the sake of the hardest quests succeeding... They will make a huge step to sanity.

(Aswell as giving a boost to those sleeping and useless cards we've got... Specially iconics heroes such as bilbo and who deserve their glorious days for the sake of middle earth...)

43 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

From my mind, buffing poor cards is better than nerfing "OP" cards. It expands the universe of usable cards, which nerfing does not

You make a good point. Certainly, buffing poor cards would be most welcome, no question.

43 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

But if you felt that Caldara/Boromir/Hama was overpowered and boring and you haven't played with them in years -- does this new errata make you want to dust them off and build decks around them? If so, then the errata really did benefit you -- if not, then the errata is just ruining someone else's fun.

I'm definitely open to now using Boromir without feeling lame, as he'd feel thematic rather than superhuman. I suppose the same for Hama, though I never purposefully tried to avoid him; I must have been doing so subconsciously. As for Caldara, I never had a desire to try her Prince Imrahil / Sword-thain shenanigans, so no strong opinion. I appreciate that she's harder to setup, but really, triggering her ability even once with such cards seems quite effective as your "big turn," so triggering more than once seems some anti-climatic to me.

However, again, this is all coming from a non-NM player, and it's those who will probably feel the biggest sting.

I'm definitively done with errata on this game.

I can't understand why developer just kill cards ... No sense !

Caldara has been totally crushed and in the news they said, she stay powerfull ... Sorry but no.

Caldara and Boromir are strong, i agree. But i play these heroes on NM and on NM quest there are just balanced. I have so much fun with them. So like JonG, i will just ignore errata which i think is a mistake like the errata on Horn of Gondor.

I don't play Hama with Thicket of spears. I play it on solo and NM ... It's difficult, tactic and so fun. But no way to play it now with this errata.

No these errata on heroes are so bad and hurts too much.

Like Dalestephenson, i prefer errata on weaker card in order to extend the universe of possible not reduce it.

I am very dissapointed by the developper direction ... It's a coop game not a competitive one.

And like i said ... More than one month with no news and no release and now these errata ... yes dissapointed and angry.

Caldara's just an aggro hero now. That's fine by me.

You can still get a turn 1 Sword-Thained Emery (get 1 resource per Arwen's ability to pay for Sword-thain) and end round 1 planning phase with Caldara in discard, spirit Imrahil on the table and in hero status (so, 4 heroes) plus 2 additional spirit allies also on the table for free. Honestly, if you think Caldara is no longer powerful....

She's a little more like Galdor now. And spirit Denethor. Aiming to get you set up early. Biggest impact in the first rounds of the game. Set up, get ahead of the encounter deck, and stay there.

edit: in fact, resurrection now seems like an optional include in a Caldara deck. If you're getting Imrahil in return and you're already using Sword-thain, you've got 4 heroes on the table, plenty of resources. Fortune or Fate doesn't really do much for you other than bringing back Caldara's meager stats.

26 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

Caldara's just an aggro hero now. That's fine by me.

You can still get a turn 1 Sword-Thained Emery (get 1 resource per Arwen's ability to pay for Sword-thain) and end round 1 planning phase with Caldara in discard, spirit Imrahil on the table and in hero status (so, 4 heroes) plus 2 additional spirit allies also on the table for free. Honestly, if you think Caldara is no longer powerful....

She's a little more like Galdor now. And spirit Denethor. Aiming to get you set up early. Biggest impact in the first rounds of the game. Set up, get ahead of the encounter deck, and stay there.

edit: in fact, resurrection now seems like an optional include in a Caldara deck. If you're getting Imrahil in return and you're already using Sword-thain, you've got 4 heroes on the table, plenty of resources. Fortune or Fate doesn't really do much for you other than bringing back Caldara's meager stats.

Yeah, good luck with that on the hardest nightmares !

If i want to do some aggro on a full spirit deck ... Well Caldara is now not a good option.

I think that the comnbination of Erestor/Denethor leadership hurts the game much than a Caldara.

Caldara can win 1/6 on Five armies NM.

Erestor/Denethor/Hirluin win 5/6 on five armies NM and 6 turn max.

So no these errata are really bad and litterally kill an emblematic archetype.

No she is far far far from a Galdor or a Denethor ... These two guys allow very agressive decks, just combine them ... Yeah draw and ressource, you explode turn one ... always ...

Caldara need a good first hand now, you have to bring Sword Thane & Prince Imrahil quickly in order to use it correctly. But if you haven't these allies in hand quickly and the encounter is agressive ... you will just loose. Before this errata, we can use Caladara before Thane or Imrahil coz you can ressurect her and reuse after at full power. Now, it's just chance not player skill.

No Caldara is now just bad in comparison of other aggro decks.