Hello everybody,

As this question is popping up a lot during gameplay and events can we please have an official reply from FFG on how these champions work on defence?

On attack they're supposed to allow twice the ring effect, but when it comes to defence as per RAW the attacker has the choice on how to resolve the claim effect of the ring itself.

Is this how these champion are supposed to work? (basically only as doublers in attack and useless on defence?)

Is there going to be an official errata if their ability was supposed to be different?

Thanks.

Nate French has already responded officially stating that is how they work. Twice on attack, but attacker resolves ring once when win on defense and use ability.

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37000-akodo-toturi-and-resolving-rings-on-defense/

1 hour ago, Japara81 said:

Is there going to be an official errata if their ability was supposed to be different?

I was expecting an errata earlier, but since Worlds has passed and still nothing - probably time to give up the hope on that one. FFG hasn't put a page together for errata yet, so I suppose you can hold out hope that once they do, Hotaru and Toturi will be on it, but I suspect they'd have done so already if they were going to do so at all.

Lion and Crane need to look to their new 5-costers, I guess.

Thanks for the feedback, although I think this sucks as it's really counterintuitive and I'm pretty sure that this is not how they were intended to work.

I hope I'm right waiting for an official errata.

I wouldn't hold my breath for errata. When the issue regarding the Crab holding switching with your stronghold came up, the team provided a ruling that it was legal, but then issued a RR update within a couple days to reverse that ruling. It's been at least a month now since the Hotaru/Toturi ruling and no further word on it since.

27 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

I wouldn't hold my breath for errata. When the issue regarding the Crab holding switching with your stronghold came up, the team provided a ruling that it was legal, but then issued a RR update within a couple days to reverse that ruling. It's been at least a month now since the Hotaru/Toturi ruling and no further word on it since.

Not to mention, Lion and Crane were 1 and 1A at Worlds. I don't think they'd be in a hurry to change a rule that only makes them even better.

That's not a question to make them better, it's just that it is a pretty confused wording and unintuitive outcome.

I know that this may change in the future and it is slightly different from the actual effect but the words "If this character wins a conflict while attacking blah blah blah" would have made this whole thing a lot simpler.

17 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Not to mention, Lion and Crane were 1 and 1A at Worlds. I don't think they'd be in a hurry to change a rule that only makes them even better.

That is an excellent point I hadn't really considered. At this point, I was just assuming the difference between this situation, and moving the stronghold was the difference between updating the rules reference and issuing card errata. But the fact that Crane and Lion are already very strong in the current environment is an argument that they don't need fixing.

Drat.

Well if this is the case, I can see that only the Water Ring is worth triggering on Defense, and that is somehow only if you managed to clear your opponent's board and you have somehow a character out of conflict that was bowed so you can force opponent to just choose that and ready it.

9 hours ago, Yogo Rye X said:

Well if this is the case, I can see that only the Water Ring is worth triggering on Defense, and that is somehow only if you managed to clear your opponent's board and you have somehow a character out of conflict that was bowed so you can force opponent to just choose that and ready it.

in that scenario the opponent would just choose not to resolve it. Plus, why would they attack with water if it couldn't resolve against you.

1 hour ago, HidaYama said:

in that scenario the opponent would just choose not to resolve it. Plus, why would they attack with water if it couldn't resolve against you.

Again, with this goofy idea, if I trigger Hotaru/Toturi on the defense, you MUST resolve the ring ability, even if it is to your determent.

31 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Again, with this goofy idea, if I trigger Hotaru/Toturi on the defense, you MUST resolve the ring ability, even if it is to your determent.

This.

Plus there was another thread about this, seems Void is not a bad choice to force trigger as well in certain scenarios.

The only problem with the situation where you force the attacker to resolve the ring is "how do you get them to attack you with a ring that wouldn't help them." They surely wouldn't simply attack with a ring that wouldn't benefit them...

The only answer I have is the province Elemental Fury. Its the only way for Lion / Crane to switch the ring after the attacker has declared so they can set it to a ring that could be useful only for them. Water and Void are the best candidates for a ring which may screw over your attacker.

They must’ve been meant to work on defence, it’s kind of bizarre that they didn’t clarify that immediately.

1 minute ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

They must’ve been meant to work on defence, it’s kind of bizarre that they didn’t clarify that immediately.

I thought that at first... but now I'm not sure. Its hard to say

When it comes to cards like these, even if they were intended to work "the good way" on defense we don't want too many cards that don't do what they say they do on a strict read through. This leads to a wait and see approach before any errata are launched.

Right now both Lion and Crane have proven they don't need these guys to work on defense to play a good game - and considering the general play style of L5R you typically wouldn't want these guys wasting their stats on defense anyway...

Given these things I'm not surprised we haven't heard anything, and I won't be surprised when these cards aren't changed.

On 16/11/2017 at 7:36 PM, Soshi Nimue said:

The only problem with the situation where you force the attacker to resolve the ring is "how do you get them to attack you with a ring that wouldn't help them." They surely wouldn't simply attack with a ring that wouldn't benefit them...

Because that ring had Fate on it? It’s not so uncommon to choose a ring just for the Fate, even if its effect is not beneficial for the attacker.