I for one intend to have fun with both. I'll decide which one sucks less after they actually come out though.

2 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

I wish I had one more point

Kylo Ren - 35
Push the Limit - 3
Advanced Sensors - 3
Autothrusters - 2
First Order Vanguard - 2
= 45

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

3 points spare so no linked battery on both gunboats.

Edit: I wonder if it's worth dropping advanced sensors for FCS to take linked battery on both gunboats? @Biophysical

The other response was correct - drop the Gunboat to Mangler. It synergizes with Kylo's pilot ability better. Still a 3 die attack, you can put linked batteries on both so the passive mods probably help compared to the 4 die hlc.

6 hours ago, SirCormac said:

I'm actually wondering if Karsabi might be the better ace in the pack. Here's a build I want to try:

Karsabi 24

Predator - 3

XG-1 Assault Configuration -1

LRS - 0

HLC - 7

Linked Cannon - 2

Total: 37

Since there is no way to put Deadeye on any of these puppies in a way you can abuse them (since you need a TL to use the other title), this might be the closest you can get. Karsabi can SLAM every turn, gain a stress to dump the WD token, and then fire a 4-die attack with at least two rerolls. This should hit like a truck. It will be vulnerable to someone getting into range 1, but I am interested in giving it a go when I get my hands on it.

Also you can choose Wired instead of predator

So happy to hear you have been experimenting with these, Bio. I’ve been trying out 2 Rho’s + Ace as well. My biggest concern with the Gunboats so far has been their durability. It seems like one will die quickly in the opening pass if it gets focus fired. Have you had any issues with them just not lasting long enough to really bring the pain? My build has been:

Rho Squadron Veteran (32) - Alpha-class Star Wing
Crack Shot (1), XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), Linked Battery (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Rho Squadron Veteran (32) - Alpha-class Star Wing
Crack Shot (1), XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), Linked Battery (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Plus an Ace to flavor. I’ve generally been trying to have an AT Ace, either Inquisitor with a Procket, or Fel.

Use a couple of Deadeye Rhos.

No SLAM, just reload.

Fire a Cluster Missile or a Plasma Torp, reload, and use a Jamming Beam or Flechette Cannon when you have the weapons offline. Chips for the mods.

It's either that, double unique, or HLC Nus for me.

I don't have vassal, but I fully intend to be messing with these the moment they come out.

And I have plans for all the phantom II stuff.

And I'm working on my kimogila list building.

Honestly, wave 12 is the flavor/thematic/fun wave I've been waiting for. Wave 11 was more tournament stuff (fun but focused on making it top tier). Wave 12 just looks like lots of fun.

8 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I know that Harpoons are the sexy new toy right now, but I'm amassing a pretty sizable body of evidence that missiles are not the power build for Gunboats. You don't have the action economy to make use of the abilities. You either take Long Range Scanners to get the TL, but then you often can't spend it. You take Chips to modify shots better, but then you have no TL set up after you SLAM, or you take Advanced SLAM to get the action, but you're firing shots that are more lightly modified.

Then you run into the issue of getting the lock against ships that move after you.

What doesn't have this problem? HLC gunboat. You can have it between 26 points (Nu, Assault Title, HLC, LRS) and 32 (Rho, Crack Shot, Linked Batteries, HLC, LRS). It's easier to use, slightly more expensive, doesn't need to be reloaded, and doesn't run into those annoying action requirements that missiles do.

2 Rho Squadron Pilots + an Ace is a thing. It's going to be a big thing, I think. It's not a secret, or won't be for long, because holy crap, it burns **** down.

Im still not sure which title will make the better build but some things to consider:

- You dont need to SLAM/reload every turn. I dont think thats what the ship was designed for. What the missile boat will most likely end up doing is hit and run.

- A 4 dice shot with TL and Lone Wolf might not be as good as the usual fully modded ordnance shots but it's still really good and can be used turn after turn. HLC boat will probably have the same kind of mod.

- Getting a lock when you have a lower ps is usually a problem but i've found that with advanced SLAM it's much less of an issue. You just have to maneuver carefully to limit the chances your opponent will end up at range 1 after he moves.

- You wont be using the TL every time you shoot

- Targeting Synchronizer: The Tie SF is one of the best imperial ship and can provide a TL with minimal penalty if equiped with expertise. The Tie Silencer might be a candidate as well but i suspect it will want advanced sensor mor than FCS.

This 31 pts ship makes for a good partner and fits nicely in the popular Tie SF + 2 ships formula:

If you have 2 extra points, you can even replace Lone Wolf by expertise.

6 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Well, I've been having decent success with Rho Rho Rho Your Boats thus far.

3x Rho with Expertise, Harpoons, OS1, AdSlam.

I was just listening to the Stay on Target podcast, and they were discussing this list tearing stuff up on Vassal already.

@Biophysical after our game last night I stayed awake thinking about my X-wing decisions. Those Rhos provide almost identical punch to the old crackshot IGs, but you also get an ace of your choice in the list. Without slam, they can't chase or arc dodge, but they will eat you alive if you are in their arc. The archetype almost reminds of the old large base + 2 thugs that was popular before the jumpmaster. Only they hit harder on the joust.

4 minutes ago, Nhoj4 said:

So happy to hear you have been experimenting with these, Bio. I’ve been trying out 2 Rho’s + Ace as well. My biggest concern with the Gunboats so far has been their durability. It seems like one will die quickly in the opening pass if it gets focus fired. Have you had any issues with them just not lasting long enough to really bring the pain? My build has been:

Rho Squadron Veteran (32) - Alpha-class Star Wing
Crack Shot (1), XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), Linked Battery (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Rho Squadron Veteran (32) - Alpha-class Star Wing
Crack Shot (1), XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), Linked Battery (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Plus an Ace to flavor. I’ve generally been trying to have an AT Ace, either Inquisitor with a Procket, or Fel.

In the experience of me and some others I know, you do lose one sometimes. It's usually an acceptable loss, as the ace and the second Rho can do enough damage, and if they're gunning for the Rhos, the ace is in a pursuit position.

5 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well I'm going to be running mine with Proton Torpedoes and Ion Cannons. Because I'm a traditionalist.

You mean Concussion Missiles, right?

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Im still not sure which title will make the better build but some things to consider:

- You dont need to SLAM/reload every turn. I dont think thats what the ship was designed for. What the missile boat will most likely end up doing is hit and run.

I agree, and the HLC is just as good at hit and run as the missile boat is. It is also more flexible and has a much lower burden of execution. Also, the primaries with linked battery and Crack Shot are not garbage at range 1, so opposing ships diving in on you is not as problematic.

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

@Biophysical after our game last night I stayed awake thinking about my X-wing decisions. Those Rhos provide almost identical punch to the old crackshot IGs, but you also get an ace of your choice in the list. Without slam, they can't chase or arc dodge, but they will eat you alive if you are in their arc. The archetype almost reminds of the old large base + 2 thugs that was popular before the jumpmaster. Only they hit harder on the joust.

In some ways, the Rhos have an even better turn 1 punch than the Bots. The Bots don't have their TL up on the first turn. The gunner effect makes them better at catching aces, but the Linked Battery and LRS combo give you re-rolls off the bat with the Rhos. And as you said, you get the ace.

This is what i am looking forward to.

2 hours ago, vtarin said:

Also you can choose Wired instead of predator

That's a great point! It's 2 points cheaper, and should make him pretty tanky with 2 dice, and if you want to come in slow and didn't particularly want to SLAM that turn, you could always do a 1 forward into a 1 forward or bank to get the stress. For 35 points, I'm definitely going to try it.

Could it be that missiles won’t work because everyone keeps insisting on Advanced SLAM when PTL is a good alternative? What about a Rho Squadron with PTL, Harpoons, Missile Title, and Chips? I don’t know, I’m just asking.

1) With PTL I can attempt a TL, and if I don’t get it SLAM closer and then get the TL.

2) With Harpoons (or Homers) I can keep the TL, that way all that is needed is a reload action.

3) Chips takes care of needed modification.

4) 2-turning off of a green 2 bank isn’t that bad for clearing stress and getting around the mat.

12 hours ago, Biophysical said:

If you're still building your gunboats around missiles, I'm pretty sure you're doing it wrong.

P sure I don't care.

I just wanted to put 3 on the table for fun, so I threw this together....i had 3 points available after building the list and an open missle spot on Vydner, so I added Prockets for a range 1 threat.

Alpha-Class Star Wing: •Major Vynder (42)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)
Push the Limit (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Proton Rockets (3)

Alpha-Class Star Wing: Rho Squadron Pilot (29)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)
Crack Shot (1)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Linked Battery (2)

Alpha-Class Star Wing: Rho Squadron Pilot (29)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)
Crack Shot (1)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Linked Battery (2)

Total: 100/100

It was a fun mix of both titles in the 1 game i ran it.

Maj Vydner is a bit too high cost though...

I’m going to try this one:

Nu Squadron Pilot (25) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), "Mangler" Cannon (4), Linked Battery (2)

Nu Squadron Pilot (25) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), "Mangler" Cannon (4), Linked Battery (2)

Nu Squadron Pilot (25) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), "Mangler" Cannon (4), Linked Battery (2)

Nu Squadron Pilot (25) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), "Mangler" Cannon (4), Linked Battery (2)

12 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I know that Harpoons are the sexy new toy right now, but I'm amassing a pretty sizable body of evidence that missiles are not the power build for Gunboats. You don't have the action economy to make use of the abilities. You either take Long Range Scanners to get the TL, but then you often can't spend it. You take Chips to modify shots better, but then you have no TL set up after you SLAM, or you take Advanced SLAM to get the action, but you're firing shots that are more lightly modified.

Then you run into the issue of getting the lock against ships that move after you.

What doesn't have this problem? HLC gunboat. You can have it between 26 points (Nu, Assault Title, HLC, LRS) and 32 (Rho, Crack Shot, Linked Batteries, HLC, LRS). It's easier to use, slightly more expensive, doesn't need to be reloaded, and doesn't run into those annoying action requirements that missiles do.

2 Rho Squadron Pilots + an Ace is a thing. It's going to be a big thing, I think. It's not a secret, or won't be for long, because holy crap, it burns **** down.

but...but...but...Ordinance needs to be nerfed!

Thank you for your sane post.

10 hours ago, xanderf said:

LOL - best gunboat build so far (5-0 with it, to date, VASSAL league and IRL...and I suck):

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

You've got blocking like crazy, which you need to use. The flechette ships tend to ASLAM a lot, otherwise the only thing anyone ever does is focus (the ion boats obviously using SLAM only sparingly, as they can't shoot when they do...but it sometimes helps that they can still do it). MAYBE you get off a thread tracer shot - IE., one of the second pair has a shot but the target is already ioned - but it's no big deal if you don't. Only 2 points spent for it, which is less than many init bids lately. But, yeah, I've walked a LOT of 50+ pt ships right off the table with stress and ion tokens on them completely locking them down from doing anything at all but die.

I love this list. I have a BWing one that is similar.

PSA: Neither Deadeye nor Targeting Synchronizer work with the OS-1 title. You still require your own lock to fire ordnance after SLAMing.

It's not really a problem.

You slam into range to acquire target locks, and boom, you have fully modded Ion Pulse Missile shots. Or a fully modded APT. If you use the APTs, you slam away to reload and reacquire the target lock on your next approach.