1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:Could someone smarter than me please explain why Lightning Reflexes isn't better than Crackshot on Rhos, especially with how much of the thread has talked about the GUNBOAT's lack of turn around options?
Please, thanks, and HAIL GUNBOAT.
dead things won't merit further attention; **** green dice
Edited by ficklegreendice21 hours ago, Waaaaaampa said:I know this is going to make Biophysical upset I'm trashing his idea, but the truth is it just flat out won't work in a Kylo crew dominated meta, which is what we are about to see from the Imperial faction.
We're not about to see a kylo crew meta though we'\re about to see a kylo pilot one.
Which has its own problems for lower-PS arced ships, but...
51 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:We're not about to see a kylo crew meta though we'\re about to see a kylo pilot one.
Which has its own problems for lower-PS arced ships, but...
Really? Didn't you hear? The Kylencer is overpriced DOA trash (apparently)
lol i heard many things.
And until the FAQ dropped, it probably WAS.
Now, we'll need to wait and see. It still has rock hard counters, particularly VI AdvSens Nym.
14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:dead things won't merit further attention; **** green dice
We should start a cult proclaiming it's not dead, only sleeping.
So yeah, after getting my ships early I just want to say that I couldn't agree with the title if this thread more. Even flown poorly by me as I'm getting used to them, HLC with a reroll (or use if a target lock if needed) are legit. I flew 2 of mine with Kylo after settling on this list and it blew me away how good it was.
Silencer and HLC gunboats (100/100)
==================================
TIE Silencer: Kylo Ren (35 + 9)
+ Push the Limit (3)
+ Fire Control System (2)
+ First Order Vanguard (2)
+ Autothrusters (2)
Alpha-class Star Wing: Nu Squadron Pilot (18 + 10)
+ Xg-1 Assault Configuration (1)
+ Long-Range Scanners (0)
+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
+ Linked Battery (2)
Alpha-class Star Wing: Nu Squadron Pilot (18 + 10)
+ Xg-1 Assault Configuration (1)
+ Long-Range Scanners (0)
+ Linked Battery (2)
+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Now, to be fair all the lists I played against were PS8 or lower so Kylo had free reign to cause havoc, however the Gunboats are still meat grinders.
With Kylo I was considering dropping some things to get a bid, or changing one or both HLC's to Manglers, which would have the added benefit of triggering Kylo's condition, but to be honest I'm it that fussed about triggering his condition. Instead I think I'll drop PTL for VI, and add advanced optics.
It means I don't need to drop things for a bid against PS9 ships that become pointless against higher PS ships. With FCS and advanced optics I should be well set up for mods every turn and still have an action to reposition. I may be being silly trying to fit Kylo and 2 HLC Gunboats but it is very effective...
TIE Silencer: Kylo Ren (35 + 9)
+ Veteran Instincts (1)
+ Fire Control System (2)
+ Advanced Optics (2)
+ First Order Vanguard (2)
+ Autothrusters (2)
Yup. I've been doing A HLC Nu and a Delta x7 with plans to be Kylo wingmates, and they've been brutal on Vassal. The Gunboat and take a pasting, and the x7 is the least threatening target(!) so it can fortress into the endgame.
The real trouble is getting the gunboats turned round usefully, but they're coming out much more useful as strafers than standard jousters - slow roll in, shoot, SLAM into a bump, SLAM out of range, SLAM round, slow roll in, repeat.
Yes! Having never flown a SLAM ship before its wonderful to be like "hmm not going to be able to turn into this fight, I'll run far away (3+3)and come back on the next turn. So much fun, and makes me really want to try the named Gunboat pilots.
1 minute ago, Goseki1 said:Yes! Having never flown a SLAM ship before its wonderful to be like "hmm not going to be able to turn into this fight, I'll run far away (3+3)and come back on the next turn. So much fun, and makes me really want to try the named Gunboat pilots.
They're just so expensive 
Seriously, I was looking at Crack Shot HLC Gunboat, for 32, and thinking 'that's reasonable for what you get, I wonder if I could fit in an upgrade to Karsabi, and he's THREE points more. That's Soontir cost, and whatever he is, at PS6 he **** sure ain't Soontir.
Hmmm, the Silencer doesn't look as big as I originally thought in that pic. It looks quite similar in size there to @Gosric's Avenger, in fact...
True, but I think there's a good Karsarbi build to pair with Quickdraw and a Palp shuttle which could mess with target priority.
2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Hmmm, the Silencer doesn't look as big as I originally thought in that pic. It looks quite similar in size there to @Gosric's Avenger, in fact...
It's longer than a Brobot, and at least as long as a U wing. It definitely wouldn't fit in the normal Blister packs.
4 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:It's longer than a Brobot, and at least as long as a U wing. It definitely wouldn't fit in the normal Blister packs.
Maybe just the angle in the picture then, but it doesn't look out of place on a small base, that's for sure.
I'm not a believer in the PS9 Kylo because I think there's a hard cap of things he's bad against and he's almost 'won more' against the stuff he's good against, but I'm going to have a stab at the PS11 Threat Tracker version for a game or two.
1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:I'm not a believer in the PS9 Kylo because I think there's a hard cap of things he's bad against and he's almost 'won more' against the stuff he's good against, but I'm going to have a stab at the PS11 Threat Tracker version for a game or two.
- Kylo Ren - Veteran Instincts, Fire Control System, First Order Vanguard, Threat Tracker, Autothrusters (45)
- Nu Squadron Pilot - XG-1, Long-Range Scanners, Harpoon Missiles, Linked Batteries, Flechette Cannon (27)
- Nu Squadron Pilot - XG-1, Long-Range Scanners, Harpoon Missiles, Linked Batteries, Flechette Cannon (27)
Let us know how this goes! Completely agree that he probably needs to be PS11 in the current meta (or 10 at a push). Harpoon gunboats are the next thing I want to try.
9 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:Let us know how this goes! Completely agree that he probably needs to be PS11 in the current meta (or 10 at a push). Harpoon gunboats are the next thing I want to try.
I've really struggled to make the harpoon boats useful. Assuming they don't spend their TL, which is a bold assumption, they need at least 2 rounds without shooting to get back on target - one to turn round, and one to reload.
If the spend the lock, 3, one turn, one lock, one reload. And that's assumign they don't need tokens to survive at any point.
I suspect ordnance is better used to support cannons, as SotL has done here, or with the OS1 title, but even then, you need a round to turn round, a round to re-lock, but you can at least fire the round you reload.
3 hours ago, Goseki1 said:So yeah, after getting my ships early... I flew 2 of mine with Kylo after settling on this list and it blew me away how good it was.
Silencer and HLC gunboats (100/100)
==================================
TIE Silencer: Kylo Ren (35 + 9)
+ Push the Limit (3)
+ Fire Control System (2)
+ First Order Vanguard (2)
+ Autothrusters (2)
Alpha-class Star Wing: Nu Squadron Pilot (18 + 10)
+ Xg-1 Assault Configuration (1)
+ Long-Range Scanners (0)
+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
+ Linked Battery (2)
Alpha-class Star Wing: Nu Squadron Pilot (18 + 10)
+ Xg-1 Assault Configuration (1)
+ Long-Range Scanners (0)
+ Linked Battery (2)
+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Sweet
3 hours ago, Goseki1 said:Now, to be fair
You’re not fair at all @Goseki1
“....envy we all now have” and you know what that leads to?
Hugs?
4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:Maybe just the angle in the picture then, but it doesn't look out of place on a small base, that's for sure.
I dunno; my opinion looking at it, if you include the bit overhanging off the back, it looks to me like its almost two bases long.
On 11/19/2017 at 5:27 PM, MajorJuggler said:
It might have legs. I play against him regularly, and can say from personal experience that if he set that up across the table from me I would have to be very very careful.
Hi, have you played against your friends 4x gunboat list yet?
29 minutes ago, kris40k said:I dunno; my opinion looking at it, if you include the bit overhanging off the back, it looks to me like its almost two bases long.
If I get a chance I'll take some top down comparison pictures tonight
27 minutes ago, kris40k said:I dunno; my opinion looking at it, if you include the bit overhanging off the back, it looks to me like its almost two bases long.
I picked up Gosric's Avenger a while back and was quite surprised at how large it looked at around 5 1/2 cm, but I do like the interceptor-style wings. So maybe I'km used to this style of ship being slightly larger.
3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:I've really struggled to make the harpoon boats useful. Assuming they don't spend their TL, which is a bold assumption, they need at least 2 rounds without shooting to get back on target - one to turn round, and one to reload.
Yeah, I have continuing concerns over ordnanceboats as well, which is a shame as I'd really to see them make an impact. I think FFG were playing it safe with the reload action, OS-1 title and SLAM as a combination, but it just doesn't really work. Evn if you take missiles where you can retain your Target Lock (Homing, Harpoon, Cruise, Ion Pulse) the action economy just isn't there, especially with the ship's ability to turn tied into it's actions as well. Run into a stress-dealers and you're essentially crippled.
The closest I've come to mapping out a best-case chain of events with ordnanceboats would be:
Rho Squadron Veteran - Lightning Reflexes, OS-1 Ordance Loadout, Harpoon Missiles, Long Range Scanners
Turn 1 (approach) - Move, Target Lock
Turn 2 (engagement) - Move, Focus, Fire (spend Focus to modify)
Turn 3 (disengage) - Move, SLAM, use Lightning Reflexes to 180 if necessary
Turn 4 (engage) - Green move, Reload, Fire if possible (spend Target Lock to modify)...
...so best case scenario, one partially-modified missile shot every 2 turns until you spend/lose/need to acquire a new Target Lock and/or spend Lighnting Reflexes.
Sure, you can look at Advanced SLAM, but then you run into Target Lock acquisition issues against higher PS ships. Or you could look at Push the Limit, but then you're looking at a hefty point sink and lose some mobility. The points costs and action economy just don't add up when when you compare it to a cannonboat. CrackHLC is better in pretty much every way.
Yeah, Lightning Reflexes might actually have a use on Gunboats. Getting them a meaningful K Turn is probably better than getting a single extra point of damage through, when it's the difference between firing that HLC one extra time before dying, or no extra times. LR is probably more damage than Crack, on a Gunboat.
2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:Yeah, Lightning Reflexes might actually have a use on Gunboats. Getting them a meaningful K Turn is probably better than getting a single extra point of damage through, when it's the difference between firing that HLC one extra time before dying, or no extra times. LR is probably more damage than Crack, on a Gunboat.
I definitely agree that Lightning Reflexes is worth considering. It can be quite handy, especially if your opponent forgets you have it!
However, I don't think its 'better'. These things are situational after all. There will be times when you wish you had crackshot (like that time I wiped Fenn off the board with a single shot at R3---not possible without it!), but there will also be times you wish you had LR...
Ultimately, I think the ship can do quite well without LR. I think more people are starting to realize this is not a jousting ship. It looks like it, but its not. Its an imperial gangster. Hit & Run! With that playstyle, I don't think LR is necessary, really.
7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:Yeah, Lightning Reflexes might actually have a use on Gunboats. Getting them a meaningful K Turn is probably better than getting a single extra point of damage through, when it's the difference between firing that HLC one extra time before dying, or no extra times. LR is probably more damage than Crack, on a Gunboat.
Depends on whether the meta becomes low health/high agi or the opposite. But in most cases I agree that LR will be the safer pick, it will certainly make it way easier to approach and joust.
Either way, it will be a glorious time over the next few weeks testing out all these ideas.
I imagine that a 26 point IPM/Flechette/LB Gunboat will see play too - IMO it is just about as effective a control piece as a stresshog, You can't get that sweet double stress, but a single IPM can win games, and this ship will actually get to turn around.
Edited by Bonza