4 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Sorry if I'm being dense, but could someone please explain why Long Range Scanners seem to be an auto include for these Gunboat builds. I imagine it has something to do with the initial TL or SLAMing to get beyond range 3 but I'm just not getting it. Plz esplain?

TL round 1 manuver in and focus r2. fire with double mods. Slam out of r3 to tl again

3 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Sorry if I'm being dense, but could someone please explain why Long Range Scanners seem to be an auto include for these Gunboat builds. I imagine it has something to do with the initial TL or SLAMing to get beyond range 3 but I'm just not getting it. Plz esplain?

It's so you can get a TL on turn one, so your first turn firing your HLC will have full mods. It is also useful on the turns when you have to disengage because you don't have a k-turn for some reason.

1 minute ago, Ralgon said:

TL round 1 adv slam in and focus or manuver focus r2. fire with double mods. Slam out of r3 to tl again

Can't have both LRS and AdvSLAM

Just now, kris40k said:

Can't have both LRS and AdvSLAM

yeah. fixed post.

4 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

They are more powerful though. Disregarding the splash damage, getting that condition to trigger deals an extra facedown damage card. Harpoons have the potential to do up to 5 damage to the same target, HLC caps at 4.

You have to get lucky without some way to guarantee getting that crit, which I would not put much stock into

And that's one damage over two attacks as you need to set it up beforehand, not just a straight five damage

Combined with low PS locks or having to maintain lock for os-1 or due to lrs range restriction, I'd say HLC is more reliable and therefore more powerful

I think going WITHOUT Guidance Chips is very detrimental. Yes, you do get to keep the TL for Homers and Harpoons - but Ordinance wasn't used before Chips for a reason.

Keeping the TL for repeated attacks, instead of having to spend it for mods, and having the GC modification is really important.

A little off topic, but I just had to comment on the thread title... the way it’s phrased makes it sound like you’re so naive and old-school to be building a ship archetype on a platform that hasn’t even been released yet!

You gotta love how fast the game moves now! I think by the time the GUNBOAT hits shelves, we’ll probably be saying how bored we are of it and speculating for Wave XIII!

1 hour ago, defkhan1 said:

I'll agree with you on the Linked Batteries and maybe on the survivability (haven't tested how survivable the gunboats are) but I actually really like the Scyk dial for cannons. You still have the 1-banks for going slow and the 5K is amazing for gaining distance for HLC. Also having barrel roll is awesome and they're a lot cheaper. I'll have to see it to believe it with regard to the Gunboat, but I've played a ton of HLC/Mangler Scyks and think they do just fine, but they're still Tier 2.

Look at it this way, to replicate the offense of a 26 point Nu Squadron HLC, the Scyk needs Predator in the EPT (or a TL with PTL). To really reap the benefits of the HLC, you'll probably want to use Focus on offense. The Gunboat doesn't mind that too much, because it's got 7 hit points. The Scyk really gets uncomfortable without a token for defense.

All this being said, if I really had any desire to play Scum, I'd have been all over HLC Scyks, especially over the past year after the title boost.

Mangler and Harpoon seems like a winning combo.

Rho Squadron Pilot with...

Crack Shot

Harpoon

Mangler Cannon

Flechette Cannon

LRS

XG-1

33 pts each. Three of them make a list.

Flechettes can be subbed for Linked Batteries if desired (might be the better call TBH).

Highly flexible loadout. Really nasty alpha potential but still has great damage output without ordnance. One ship can Harpoon and other two can Mangler to get that condition off. Can swap next round. Or all three can shoot Harpoons at once. Basically do whatever the situation calls for. Tons of flexibility...

EDIT: You can also do two of these and TC Soontir or Adaptability Vader. That sounds pretty good.

1 hour ago, mxlm said:

Wait. Are we talking about the ship that could fire a torpedo at you at PS9 and then fire a second torpedo at you if you fired at it while in arc that same turn? The ship with 9 hp, 2 agi that was itself nearly guaranteed to survive alpha strikes that would come its way (or at least get simultaneous fire if it didn't)? The ship with white sloops that could take deadeye? The ship with white sloops, deadeye, and ludicrous offensive mods between chips and its mech that gave it obscene odds of 4/4 hits? That's doing torpedoes right?

TIL

No actually I was talking about the three ships that can hit you with torpedoes leaving you in a cloud of smoke. Dengaroo came after the 1st batch of nerf so worse than what you just explained apparently.

But when talking about torpedoes done right lets go back to before Jumpmasters where pretty much torpedoes and missiles just plain sucked hutt warts. The problem was well the TL and discard requirement. I often used this set up to explain the shortcomings of torpedoes by comparing 2 proton torpedoes to 2 HLC shots. The two scenarios is no target lock (as in a ship with the TL dodge out and you have to pick another ship) and target lock. in both scenarios HLC won as the TL would be more effective than the one <focus> to <crit> and before EM HLC was cheaper too. However take Deadeye which ironically is better on low pilot skill as you would ensure your actions. Then combine with R4 Agromech now you don't waste your dice modifications on secondary weapons with no dice modification.

The problem we can all agree on is the build was attached to a ship that didn't really need it. Now lets just say you can bend the upgrade rules and put Deadeye and R4 Agromech on a TIE Punisher, then it would have been fine as you have a ship that can do damage but can be easily arc dodged. Thing is FFG wasn't that forward thinking with their upgrades as apparent with well torpedoes and missiles and how awful they were (and still are) with their set up. FFG didn't understand the game they were making, no one did. A statement that can still be said about X-wing to this day. Granted there is a lot more exploration on why things are either OP or lame, but again I don't think players understand X-wing despite all their mathematical knowledge.

Counter to Biophysical's title, I have been having fun with this list:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!c=100!269:19,-1,243:61:25:U.-1,U.-1;269:19,-1,243:61:25:U.-1,U.-1;227:43,95,183,-1,-1:-1:3:&sn=Rho Rho Your Boat&obs=coreasteroid0,coreasteroid1,coreasteroid2

Stridan adds extra focus using fleet officer or can coordinate reload actions. System officer can provide free target locks if you dial in a green.

My usual turn I Advanced sensors a Fleet officer action, reveal a green, clear the stress, let one of the Rho boats get a free TL. Since they all move at PS 4 I can self bump to keep Stridan's arc in the fight. That frees up the Rho's to either focus, slam, or reload according to their needs.

23 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

A little off topic, but I just had to comment on the thread title... the way it’s phrased makes it sound like you’re so naive and old-school to be building a ship archetype on a platform that hasn’t even been released yet!

You gotta love how fast the game moves now! I think by the time the GUNBOAT hits shelves, we’ll probably be saying how bored we are of it and speculating for Wave XIII!

Ooh, are we doing clickbait titles again?

One simple upgrade Rebels don't want you to know about

or

He put a missile on his Star Wing, and then the unthinkable happened

or

23 Gunboat builds that will blow your mind (number 7 is insane!)

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Ooh, are we doing clickbait titles again?

One simple upgrade Rebels don't want you to know about

or

He put a missile on his Star Wing, and then the unthinkable happened

or

23 Gunboat builds that will blow your mind (number 7 is insane!)

We detect that your computer has picked up a virus. Click here to download a free GUNBOAT to fix it.

25 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

A little off topic, but I just had to comment on the thread title... the way it’s phrased makes it sound like you’re so naive and old-school to be building a ship archetype on a platform that hasn’t even been released yet!

You gotta love how fast the game moves now! I think by the time the GUNBOAT hits shelves, we’ll probably be saying how bored we are of it and speculating for Wave XIII!

I mean, for all practical purposes it has been released. We have all the information. People are playing woth them on Vassal and could easily be proxying them on a tabletop. Are there undiscovered builds? Maybe. I'm just be coming more and more convinced that cannons are the most dangerous build, which is basically what I wrote in the title.

Biophysical was crushing people with double defenders before the X7 title... Naive he ain't.

22 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Biophysical was crushing people with double defenders before the X7 title... Naive he ain't.

I think he was saying it sounded like I was calling people naive for using missiles.

All I know is that the OS1 title is obviously too limiting, therefore we need a GUNBOAT fix and aces pack next year.

6 hours ago, Odanan said:

You mean Concussion Missiles, right?

Domain of the Devil no, I want my crits dammit

44 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I mean, for all practical purposes it has been released. We have all the information. People are playing woth them on Vassal and could easily be proxying them on a tabletop. Are there undiscovered builds? Maybe. I'm just be coming more and more convinced that cannons are the most dangerous build, which is basically what I wrote in the title.

39 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Biophysical was crushing people with double defenders before the X7 title... Naive he ain't.

Sorry, no offense intended. I just liked how the title sounded. It’s just kinda funny from my perspective because I’m one of the only people who flies Imps at my FLGS, and I don’t own Vassal, so it’s humorous to be reading about how ordnance GUNBOATs are considered kind of old hat, since I’ve still never seen one in person!

20 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Sorry, no offense intended. I just liked how the title sounded. It’s just kinda funny from my perspective because I’m one of the only people who flies Imps at my FLGS, and I don’t own Vassal, so it’s humorous to be reading about how ordnance GUNBOATs are considered kind of old hat, since I’ve still never seen one in person!

Considering we're getting ships from 30 years in the future, imperial r&d really has to hit the ground running

I concur with stay_on_the_leader, flechette and harpoon Nu (with LRS) is a great cheap build that brings the best of both.

My personal favourite is PtL and advanced slam on a rho with harpoons and the missile title. You get the moves and the mods, and when you slam away afterwards your greens+slam work just fine. So far it has a 100% success rate on vassal, too. Never mind that it was only one game.

I'm looking forward to flying HLC wasabi but I think he's rather too expensive for what he does, so he will be kept for a casual game.

I was definitely just goofing around as well. But, there are a lot of words thrown around on this forum by folks that don't really get the game. If biophysical starts a topic, I'm going to read it carefully.

24 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

I was definitely just goofing around as well. But, there are a lot of words thrown around on this forum by folks that don't really get the game. If biophysical starts a topic, I'm going to read it carefully.

Thanks, man, that's kind of you to say.

5 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Sorry if I'm being dense, but could someone please explain why Long Range Scanners seem to be an auto include for these Gunboat builds. I imagine it has something to do with the initial TL or SLAMing to get beyond range 3 but I'm just not getting it. Plz esplain?

You don't have to take LRS, and if you like taking TL up close, then don't take them, but I think the idea is that:

A) it's free

B) It allows for a alpha strike with the HLC as you will have the TL from turn 1 for the first turn of combat

C) This free us your action for defense

D) Combined with Expertise, you could have a fully modified, 4 die shot on the initial pass, with a Focus for defense (hopefully at Range 3 for 3 dice)

So while LRS has downsides, it looks like the upsides far outweigh them on these ships. Further, if you ever need to disengage, SLAM can make that happen fast, and then on the next 'off' turn, you can TL again before swinging in.

6 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

They are more powerful though. Disregarding the splash damage, getting that condition to trigger deals an extra facedown damage card. Harpoons have the potential to do up to 5 damage to the same target, HLC caps at 4.

They can also be turned into a liability. I maneuvered my Harpooned ship to a position that forced an opponent into three bad choices with his one hull Vader (stay in R1 of it and get a shot, flee and be out of the game for awhile, or move out of R1 but take a four dice shot). Meanwhile I moved my own QD, who had shields remaining, into R1of my own harpooned ship in hopes of getting a double shot on his Rho. Long story short, Vader ended up dead by his squad's harpoon and QD got the two shots, effectively ending the game.