I know that Harpoons are the sexy new toy right now, but I'm amassing a pretty sizable body of evidence that missiles are not the power build for Gunboats. You don't have the action economy to make use of the abilities. You either take Long Range Scanners to get the TL, but then you often can't spend it. You take Chips to modify shots better, but then you have no TL set up after you SLAM, or you take Advanced SLAM to get the action, but you're firing shots that are more lightly modified.

Then you run into the issue of getting the lock against ships that move after you.

What doesn't have this problem? HLC gunboat. You can have it between 26 points (Nu, Assault Title, HLC, LRS) and 32 (Rho, Crack Shot, Linked Batteries, HLC, LRS). It's easier to use, slightly more expensive, doesn't need to be reloaded, and doesn't run into those annoying action requirements that missiles do.

2 Rho Squadron Pilots + an Ace is a thing. It's going to be a big thing, I think. It's not a secret, or won't be for long, because holy crap, it burns **** down.

As some one who has been religious about Expertise, HLC, Engine Upgrade Firesprays. These are cheaper versions of that.

I'm actually wondering if Karsabi might be the better ace in the pack. Here's a build I want to try:

Karsabi 24

Predator - 3

XG-1 Assault Configuration -1

LRS - 0

HLC - 7

Linked Cannon - 2

Total: 37

Since there is no way to put Deadeye on any of these puppies in a way you can abuse them (since you need a TL to use the other title), this might be the closest you can get. Karsabi can SLAM every turn, gain a stress to dump the WD token, and then fire a 4-die attack with at least two rerolls. This should hit like a truck. It will be vulnerable to someone getting into range 1, but I am interested in giving it a go when I get my hands on it.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

As some one who has been religious about Expertise, HLC, Engine Upgrade Firesprays. These are cheaper versions of that.

Kath Scarlet — Firespray-31	38
Expertise	4
Heavy Laser Cannon	7
Engine Upgrade	4
Ship Total: 53
Major Vynder — Alpha-class Star Wing	26
Expertise	4
Heavy Laser Cannon	7
Flechette Cannon	2
Hull Upgrade	3
XG-1 Assault Configuration	1
Ship Total: 43
10 pts cheaper? I have no idea

I might swap Flechette Cannon for Linked Battery. It reduces your firing cycle, but gives a free reroll.

Been saying this for a while now

Counterpoint: you can't fire HLCs after SLAMming, making HLC gunboats substantially less mobile and with no way to turn around in less than two turns if they want to shoot. Advanced SLAM Deadeye Rho Boats can be give Cruise, Harpoon or Homing missiles depending on the meta and come in from 29-31 points. Major Vynder also works substantially better as a missile boat since he wants to have a weapons disabled token whenever possible, but he also wants to shoot.

Granted, I'm not a Vassal player, so I don't have any games to back this up, but my suspicion is that HLC Boats might work better in a straight joust against a fairly slow target, but vs anything quick, or after the initial joust, I'd rather have the more mobile ships, even if it only means shooting every second round.

LOL - best gunboat build so far (5-0 with it, to date, VASSAL league and IRL...and I suck):

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

You've got blocking like crazy, which you need to use. The flechette ships tend to ASLAM a lot, otherwise the only thing anyone ever does is focus (the ion boats obviously using SLAM only sparingly, as they can't shoot when they do...but it sometimes helps that they can still do it). MAYBE you get off a thread tracer shot - IE., one of the second pair has a shot but the target is already ioned - but it's no big deal if you don't. Only 2 points spent for it, which is less than many init bids lately. But, yeah, I've walked a LOT of 50+ pt ships right off the table with stress and ion tokens on them completely locking them down from doing anything at all but die.

There was only one ship that did missiles/torpedoes right, and everyone hated it.

Well, I've been having decent success with Rho Rho Rho Your Boats thus far.

3x Rho with Expertise, Harpoons, OS1, AdSlam.

I've yet to test the HLC, though.

4get me Nu

Nu Sq Vet x 3 w/ XG1, HLC, LRS
Nu Sq Vet x 1 w/ Harpoon Missiles, LRS

Initial engagement with 4 x 4 dice shots, then disengage to reacquire target locks and perhaps reload that solo depleted harpoon.

Alternatively, the depleted harpoon Nu can be used as a blocker to jam up the enemy lines and keep the engagement at range 2-3. That way, the HLCs Nu can have a second round of fire before disengaging.

I am not sure how Gunboats have to fire lowly modified missiles when configured as missile boats. ;-)
Slam double 3s into reload or slam into target lock + expertise missiles. Sprinkle with cruise missiles if you prefer EM for a harsh beta strike.

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Gunboat with harpoons and Quickdraw with targeting synchronizer. All the advantages of a missile gunboat and without the disadvantages. Well, as long as Quickdraw's alive anyway, but the game might well be decided before he goes down and it's gonna be easier to get your target locks once the furball / mopping up starts.

31 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I am not sure how Gunboats have to fire lowly modified missiles when configured as missile boats. ;-)
Slam double 3s into reload or slam into target lock + expertise missiles. Sprinkle with cruise missiles if you prefer EM for a harsh beta strike.

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Rho Squadron Veteran (21)
Expertise (4)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (2)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Wait till you get to face aces (or even worse - large ships) with boost. If you're in range 3 before they start moving (and you need to in order to get your TL), they're going to find it trivial to get into R1 of you. Which means you're not shooting, have no tokens for defense (took a TL, remember?) and they get an extra die. Another pass maybe? If you survive that long...

HLC are expensive though. I've had some success with this so far, but only limited testing: 2x Nu with Ion Cannon, XG1, LRS, 2x Nu with Harpoon, LRS, Academy pilot. It's BBBBZ with trading 1hp per ship for green dice, and evade on the z, but it hits way harder and has control. It's nice.

It might be worth dropping one of the cannons down to flechette, to add Tractor or Jam to the other giving them both SLAM shooting options, is the only change I might make - but losing the ability to ionise a big ship in a single round is painful..

Well I'm going to be running mine with Proton Torpedoes and Ion Cannons. Because I'm a traditionalist.

I still believe in the Flechette & Harpoon Nu. Best of both worlds.

I wish I had one more point

Kylo Ren - 35
Push the Limit - 3
Advanced Sensors - 3
Autothrusters - 2
First Order Vanguard - 2
= 45

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

3 points spare so no linked battery on both gunboats.

Edit: I wonder if it's worth dropping advanced sensors for FCS to take linked battery on both gunboats? @Biophysical

5 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I know that Harpoons are the sexy new toy right now, but I'm amassing a pretty sizable body of evidence that missiles are not the power build for Gunboats. You don't have the action economy to make use of the abilities. You either take Long Range Scanners to get the TL, but then you often can't spend it. You take Chips to modify shots better, but then you have no TL set up after you SLAM, or you take Advanced SLAM to get the action, but you're firing shots that are more lightly modified.

Then you run into the issue of getting the lock against ships that move after you.

What doesn't have this problem? HLC gunboat. You can have it between 26 points (Nu, Assault Title, HLC, LRS) and 32 (Rho, Crack Shot, Linked Batteries, HLC, LRS). It's easier to use, slightly more expensive, doesn't need to be reloaded, and doesn't run into those annoying action requirements that missiles do.

2 Rho Squadron Pilots + an Ace is a thing. It's going to be a big thing, I think. It's not a secret, or won't be for long, because holy crap, it burns **** down.

Shhhhhhhhhh................ Stop preparing people for the storm.

Drop Vanguard replace with Primed Thrusters. There's your point. But 2 Delta x7 are probably a better escort.

OT is what I feel and say since my first attempts of listbuilding with the GUNBOAT. I come up with tons of interesting XG-1 builds that look all pretty competent on the paper but I cant come up with an OS-1 build that feels round. I woud even say that if you want an ordnance based alpha strilker putting that ordnance on the XG-1 with a flechett cannon for SLAM and Reload-shooting might be the better choice. I think the OS-1 suffers the TIE/d syndrom there the more expensive title turns out weaker and so inefficiant tat you won't use it out of very special cases.

Dormitz + 2 or 3 gunboat could be a efficient alpha strike

4 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

Counterpoint: you can't fire HLCs after SLAMming, making HLC gunboats substantially less mobile and with no way to turn around in less than two turns if they want to shoot. Advanced SLAM Deadeye Rho Boats can be give Cruise, Harpoon or Homing missiles depending on the meta and come in from 29-31 points. Major Vynder also works substantially better as a missile boat since he wants to have a weapons disabled token whenever possible, but he also wants to shoot.

Granted, I'm not a Vassal player, so I don't have any games to back this up, but my suspicion is that HLC Boats might work better in a straight joust against a fairly slow target, but vs anything quick, or after the initial joust, I'd rather have the more mobile ships, even if it only means shooting every second round.

I've become pretty convinced that firing after SLAMming is not worth as much as it initially seems. A 180 degree SLAM is not a K-turn, and if you have to reload or acquire a lock, you're firing barely modified shots. Accept that you have to break off and come around again and just take the best weapon.

4 hours ago, xanderf said:

LOL - best gunboat build so far (5-0 with it, to date, VASSAL league and IRL...and I suck):

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Flechette Cannon (2)
Linked Battery (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Cannon (3)
Linked Battery (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

You've got blocking like crazy, which you need to use. The flechette ships tend to ASLAM a lot, otherwise the only thing anyone ever does is focus (the ion boats obviously using SLAM only sparingly, as they can't shoot when they do...but it sometimes helps that they can still do it). MAYBE you get off a thread tracer shot - IE., one of the second pair has a shot but the target is already ioned - but it's no big deal if you don't. Only 2 points spent for it, which is less than many init bids lately. But, yeah, I've walked a LOT of 50+ pt ships right off the table with stress and ion tokens on them completely locking them down from doing anything at all but die.

42 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I still believe in the Flechette & Harpoon Nu. Best of both worlds.

I could be convinced that control boats are good, I just don't have the personal experience, and it's a very different sort of ship.

47 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:

I wish I had one more point

Kylo Ren - 35
Push the Limit - 3
Advanced Sensors - 3
Autothrusters - 2
First Order Vanguard - 2
= 45

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

Nu Squadron Gunboat - 18
HLC - 7
XG1 title - 1

=26

3 points spare so no linked battery on both gunboats.

Edit: I wonder if it's worth dropping advanced sensors for FCS to take linked battery on both gunboats? @Biophysical

I think as a Kylo wingman, it's one of the situations I would consider freeing points by dropping to a Mangler. That automatic crit is awesome if you want to make I'll Show You the Dark Side happen.

Biophysical, you let the secret out!

After the Gunboat article I was looking at Karsabi as an HLC platform, then realized "why not ALL OF THEM!!!"

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

Wait till you get to face aces (or even worse - large ships) with boost. If you're in range 3 before they start moving (and you need to in order to get your TL), they're going to find it trivial to get into R1 of you. Which means you're not shooting, have no tokens for defense (took a TL, remember?) and they get an extra die. Another pass maybe? If you survive that long...

Meanwhile in the same scenario you are not using your HCL at all either. Though you still have a point. PTL with LRS might actually work better to get proper range shots. OR keeping expertise, but switching to cluster missiles on one of the missile boats.