Just want to make sure I dont play this wrong in the future.
I use Spirtcaller's ability to bring in Beiona. I have 3+ bushi in play already, so Beiona gets 2 fate put on him.
Does he still leave play at the end of conflict because of the last line on Spirtcaller?
Yes. If he is still in play at the end you must do what the spiritcallers card says. This isn't the clean up phase where it checks for fate
Sounds like a good opportunity to use Phoenix splash for Embrace the Void. Attach to Beiona, bank free fate when she leaves play. Easy money.
I don't think that works, @Zesu Shadaban . That's not removing fate from a character, that's a character leaving play and the fate just going *poof*.
QuoteIf a card leaves play, the following consequences occur simultaneously with the card leaving play:
- All tokens on the card are returned to the general token pool.
1 hour ago, twinstarbmc said:I don't think that works, @Zesu Shadaban . That's not removing fate from a character, that's a character leaving play and the fate just going *poof*.
Nope it works, see ruling on:
27 minutes ago, Mirith said:Nope it works, see ruling on:
i agree with you but this link uses a card that discards, which is leaving play. Again i agree with you that it will work, but spirit caller puts them on the bottom of the deck. Due to all the different terminology it could end up being rules that leaving play being discarded and being sacrificed are different from returning to the deck.(i doubt it will but its still possible.)
The way I saw it explained from a dev ruling, if the fate tokens are physically leaving the card, they are considered removed. We can ask for a dev ruling on this specific interaction, but I'm pretty confident this works given that there's no other occasions I'm aware of that the cards affected by Spiritcaller are treated differently from any other card leaving play.
The cards (generally characters and attachments) that a player controls in his or her play area (at home or participating in a conflict), a player’s stronghold card, a player’s faceup province cards, and all holdings on a player’s provinces are considered “in play.” A player’s facedown provinces are considered in play only as “facedown provinces,” and the ability text on such cards is not considered active until the card is revealed. “Out-of-play” refers to all other cards and areas involved in the game environment, including: character cards in a player’s provinces, role cards, cards in a player’s hand, decks, discard piles, and any cards that have been removed from the game.
By this i agree 100%, my caution is that they didnt just come out and say any time fate leaves the card you trigger this ability, but rather they listed examples. Could be me just over thinking it.
Edited by yujufrazer15 hours ago, Mirith said:Nope it works, see ruling on:
Ugh, fine . I don't like it, but I don't have to. Dumb rules are still rules.
Note, the other side of this is that the Character, Attachment, and fate all leave play simultaneously (I'd have to dig up where it says this, but it was part of the justification of this rule iirc). Since it is an interrupt, it is in part of why it works.
Also, "discard" is within the subset of "leaves play".
You can also use Stand Your Ground in conjunction with Spiritcaller to keep the character you pull in play (assuming you can honor them during the conflict).
My only issue with it is that the character, attachment, and fate all cease to exist simultaneously. So, by the time the card could trigger, it's not longer in play, and neither is the fate. It's just weird, yo.
3 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:My only issue with it is that the character, attachment, and fate all cease to exist simultaneously. So, by the time the card could trigger, it's not longer in play, and neither is the fate. It's just weird, yo.
Its an interrupt, not a reaction.
33 minutes ago, Mirith said:Its an interrupt, not a reaction.
ooooooh..... so it happens immediately before everything goes poof. Gotcha.
On 11/15/2017 at 6:16 AM, twinstarbmc said:Ugh, fine . I don't like it, but I don't have to. Dumb rules are still rules
I agree with you, this is just counter-intuitive. It seems correct as per RaW, but it just doesn't sit right with me. Discard seems mechanically different than removing fate, in my mind.
Maybe this will be playable when when we have a few more shugenja. Kitsu Spiritcaller is currently our only one...i think.
Speaking of uniques, can you Spiritcall a Beiona into the conflict while there is a Beiona at your home?
41 minutes ago, Yogo Rye X said:Speaking of uniques, can you Spiritcall a Beiona into the conflict while there is a Beiona at your home?
nope, per rules on uniques, can't have more than 1 in play.
1 hour ago, Akodo Tetsuo said:Maybe this will be playable when when we have a few more shugenja. Kitsu Spiritcaller is currently our only one...i think.
To be fair, the full combo originally described required Spiritcaller to already be in play and her ability used. But yea, you can never have too many shugenja in my opinion.
6 hours ago, Zesu Shadaban said:To be fair, the full combo originally described required Spiritcaller to already be in play and her ability used. But yea, you can never have too many shugenja in my opinion.
It is just too situational, sure it might go off every now and then but it requires being able to spiritcall Beiona in with three other bushi in play. Out of interest, if you attached it to another character that was spiritcalled, would you get a chance to For Greater Glory having broken a province and get a single fate once that character leaves? I'm inclined to say no as the conflict resolves as the province breaks and fgg is played as a reaction after that.
5 minutes ago, Akodo Tetsuo said:It is just too situational, sure it might go off every now and then but it requires being able to spiritcall Beiona in with three other bushi in play. Out of interest, if you attached it to another character that was spiritcalled, would you get a chance to For Greater Glory having broken a province and get a single fate once that character leaves? I'm inclined to say no as the conflict resolves as the province breaks and fgg is played as a reaction after that.
There's definitely a few moving parts to get in the right place at the right time.
As to your question on FGG, the province actually breaks before the conflict ends. Note that it's adding fate to participating characters, present tense. The province breaks, FGG triggers, then you resolve ring effects, claim the ring, and send participants home bowed. After all that, then the conflict ends and the Spiritcaller effect completes.
22 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:There's definitely a few moving parts to get in the right place at the right time.
As to your question on FGG, the province actually breaks before the conflict ends. Note that it's adding fate to participating characters, present tense. The province breaks, FGG triggers, then you resolve ring effects, claim the ring, and send participants home bowed. After all that, then the conflict ends and the Spiritcaller effect completes.
Thanks for clearing that up! A lot of effort for one fate but good to know it's playable.