I was thinking about point costs and points limit and how that affects a game. For example warmachine mk2 was more balanced at 50 points than at 35.

Would x-wing be better at 120 points?

Lists

Off the top of my head this is what happens to some of the established lists.

Dash / Miranda / Nym / Poe / Corran in a 2 list combination can go super skinny and add a stress hog or slightly fatter and some cheap support piece (a or z blocker?) - will that make the lists stronger or tone them down?

Imperial aces - Can in most instances add upgrades to the aces and/or shuttle and stick a wampa filler in. Or go light and add a 4th “ace” - is that bad? Will it break them or give generics a chance to get them?

Nym / Dengar / Asajj - Two ship scum builds gets the same add a filler option.
Dengar / Fenn / Sunny - The ones already playing sunny can get something more juicy as a third by dropping sunny. Dengar Fen ? Kihraxz/Viper/? . That seems fine.

Generics

Will 10 tie fighters be overpowered, viable or still trash?

Trip wookies don’t get a 4th and 4 wookies don’t get a 5th. Guess you could add biggs to the trip wookies but will that break the list anymore than what it already is?

Will filler ships like a-wings, z95’s, tie fighters see more play?

Thug life doesn’t get an extra thug (same for aggressors).

How does scurggs feel about this. Will adding 20 points to an almost naked 4 scurrg list destroy the 120 point meta?

What about upgrades?

Mindlink can’t be abused so we are safe there. Unique upgrades have a lessened effect if there is more stuff on the board. Anything that requires enemy ships gets slightly better but the beloved flight assist astro takes a slight hit. Jyn erso gets better. Jabba might be worth it.

These are just my initial thoughts. Anyone thought about this before?

I like 150 over 100. The game length isn't much longer, but it allows for decent support ships without eating up too much of your list. Once per round abilities lower in strength the more ships you add. Trip brobots isn't that scary either, I've played against them before.

7 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I like 150 over 100. The game length isn't much longer, but it allows for decent support ships without eating up too much of your list. Once per round abilities lower in strength the more ships you add. Trip brobots isn't that scary either, I've played against them before.

Yay six Wookiee lists.

20 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I like 150 over 100. The game length isn't much longer, but it allows for decent support ships without eating up too much of your list. Once per round abilities lower in strength the more ships you add. Trip brobots isn't that scary either, I've played against them before.

13 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yay six Wookiee lists.

Yay Familybots lists!

The way I think about it: don't think it'd so much be a case of many ships going skinny, but ships which are already a little bigger not having to run with a skinny partner. Fenn Rau + Nym is awkward, since there's nothing to go along a 34ish Fenn and 47ish Nym. Bring the budget up to 120 points, and you'll have 39 to work with instead of 19. Oh man, Attanni Fenn+Asajj and a 47 point Nym. Same premise with something like Nym/Poe (47 and 41-45ish). At 100, the bid would be too huge, 20 points added to the 12 existing is a full solid ship, not just filler. A 52 point LW/Rey Dash could take a pair of Predator/Tactician/Breach Auzitucks to back him up and still grab an illicit. A classic 58 Kyle Super-Dash with a standard-ish Rey with Finn (about the same cost). Imperial Aces are already kind of trim these days, and frequently fly filler-ish ships like Omega Leader and Pure Sabacc. That could be a Countess Ryad, now. Quickdraw won't have to leave their Tech slot empty. Vader will never have to forgo Engine Upgrade.

That said, something like RAC/Kylo might get interesting. That might be one of the few spots where I think filler-ish ships could work. You could finally get a fully-loaded RAC and a fully-loaded Whisper and still have room for Wampa. Or finally make everyone's I'll Show You the Dark Side/Lieutenant Colzet nightmares come true.

But more broadly, I don't think folks would fly more filler. The reason folks don't fly that much filler is that they aren't better ships. 120 allows you to mostly avoid flying weaker ships in the first place.

Oh, and TLT spam does get an extra ship. Drop the droid off the Y-Wings. 5x24 = 120.

Grand conclusion: no major changes in balance.

//

I think a 105 point tournament would be fun, too. There's often a lot of lists where they're just one upgrade short. 105 is enough of a twist for someone to bring something new, or put a creative slant on a familiar list, but not so much that the game is going to be unrecognizable.

It'll shake up the meta, but it won't have drastic effects to the game play. Certain lists will come in and dominate. Now what would be interesting is if you had a random cost tourney. 100 pts base, roll a die for +/-, and then a d20 to find out how much. Aka, 100 (even roll on a d6) + 16 (16 rolled on a d20) = 116 points. Or 100 - (odd roll on a d6) 8 (8 rolled on a d20) = 92 points. You can do the roll either during registration, the night before, or when you announce the tourney... The point is that whatever list you bring will have to fit specifically in this arrangement, and the time that you determine what the point total is will be a balance of allowing players to find a list vs. allowing players to prepare a list.

Herm... I think I have an idea for my next tourney!

At 120 pts?

FIVE. BLACK. SUN. ACES.

Oooooo...

SIX. CARTEL. MARAUDERS.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

I like 150 over 100. The game length isn't much longer, but it allows for decent support ships without eating up too much of your list. Once per round abilities lower in strength the more ships you add. Trip brobots isn't that scary either, I've played against them before.

I like 150 points when Epic ships are allowed. You have to restrict it to three Epic points though, because there’s a 2-CROC build that’s absolutely overpowered, IMO.

One aspect that should be noted as point limits increase is that the available play area space is not increasing in tandem. The issue of increasing aces in a 120 point list is slightly mitigated by the fact that, if your opponent is running generics, he'll have more generics covering a wider field of firing arcs. This would be even more true in 150 point lists in a 3' x 3' area. Simply by increasing the number of ships and keeping the play area the same, the format empowers generics and swarms more (Etahn, Howlrunner, Serissu, and Captain Jonus like this). If you play to the strengths of a 6-to-10 ship swarm (or 8 to 12 if you're going with 150 points), you'll always have enemy aces in arc(s), you'll find it easier to force them to bump (and maybe even bump them over asteroids). Mind you, they aren't just worried about bumping into your many ships, but also have to be cognizant of tripping over themselves, since they have more ships too. But increasing the play area to 3' x 6' takes away this advantage to generics, and moves the advantage to arc-dodgers and aces.

A 3'x3' play area with this many points, in addition to seeing an increase in the number of ships fielded, thus sees a higher return-on-investment for bombs. Suddenly, your bombs are causing more damage per drop--meanwhile, cannons and primary weapon attacks are doing the same amount of damage. Granted, the person laying the bombs also has to be careful not to hit his own ships, since he is now fielding more ships too. Harpoon Missiles, Assault Missiles, and Ion Torpedoes will gain value as number of ships increase and have less room to spread out. EMP Device and Dead Man's Switch also gain damage output without their costs changing.

Large ships get slightly edged out of this meta, as their big butts will be more susceptible to more bumps, bombs, and more firing arcs. (unless the point boost allows them to get much more tanky)

I adore 120-150 (and once or twice even up to 200) point range, with huge ships, on a normal mat. Best play format!... Though I do recommend trying without asteroids (or with fewer) to reduce the clutter a bit as you get higher points.

I've had a lot of success with naked lambdas in that sort of game... And with Aces (if they can survive I've to the late game, such as by act of Gozanti)... And with swarms of Academy Ties... And a fat ghost with awing escorts...

Tbh the only thing I've not found fun was cluster bomb spam... Too effective on the cluttered table.

I like 120 points.

3 Bro Bots!

13 hours ago, Arterial Spray said:

I adore 120-150 (and once or twice even up to 200) point range, with huge ships, on a normal mat. Best play format!... Though I do recommend trying without asteroids (or with fewer) to reduce the clutter a bit as you get higher points.

...

200+ is also fun for just trying straight swarms, because for me the more TIEs the more Star Wars it feels like ... example below: Imperial 217 versus Scum 217

You could have Luke and his R2-D2 along side four Rookies with R2 astros.

I think that 120 points is a sweet spot.

The extra points helps to dilute some of the super stars in this game.

2 hours ago, Erion_Fett said:

At 120 pts?

FIVE. BLACK. SUN. ACES.

Oooooo...

SIX. CARTEL. MARAUDERS.

I like this human. He understands!

Escalation format: 60pts in first round (2 ships minimum), then 90, 120, and finally 150. Can only add, no removing anything.

Lots of fun, where you have to plan each round's list so it works but still allows the next one to work.

By later rounds, the low agility damage tanks are proportionally weaker because more ships can shoot and remove them quicker, but fragile high agility aces can't dodge every arc and will run out of tokens or blank out their green dice.

Generic swarms start off weak but end up very strong.

A little bit different at least for a while: YES.

Better: No.

Changing the points just changes the target but you'd soon be back to having the same lists dominate just like you do at 100 points although 120 points will allow dominant lists that 100 points do not.