How are you Scorpion players dealing with the Lion's Pride Brawler?

Lately the Lion decks in the area have been putting her front and center and wrecking face against everyone but Crane. Using the Spiritcallers and some card that adds fate to them, they are keeping these characters in the game for a long time and it's becoming an issue for me. If they happen to get 2 on the board, it's really nasty.

I know some tricks to knee cap it if I have the first player token and attack first, but my opponents are learning to make sure she is down and ready when they have it.

A few of the Scorpion players around here have started splashing Phoenix for shugenjas, and depending on Cloud the Mind. It doesn't look too bad, but it would change up my deck quite a bit, and I feel like that's a lot of effort to deal with a single card...I don't want to make myself weaker against other clans.

I was splashing Crab for Watch Commanders to help with my dishonor game, and Jade Tetsubo to help with military + stacks of fate....I am thinking about taking out the Tetsubo, and running x2 Watch Commander with x3 Hiruma Ambusher. Not as potent as Cloud, but allows me to retain the majority of my deck while still having an answer for her in there. The Ambusher will also play well with Shosuro Miyako.

11 minutes ago, SolidusPrime said:

How are you Scorpion players dealing with the Lion's Pride Brawler?

Lately the Lion decks in the area have been putting her front and center and wrecking face against everyone but Crane. Using the Spiritcallers and some card that adds fate to them, they are keeping these characters in the game for a long time and it's becoming an issue for me. If they happen to get 2 on the board, it's really nasty.

I know some tricks to knee cap it if I have the first player token and attack first, but my opponents are learning to make sure she is down and ready when they have it.

A few of the Scorpion players around here have started splashing Phoenix for shugenjas, and depending on Cloud the Mind. It doesn't look too bad, but it would change up my deck quite a bit, and I feel like that's a lot of effort to deal with a single card...I don't want to make myself weaker against other clans.

I was splashing Crab for Watch Commanders to help with my dishonor game, and Jade Tetsubo to help with military + stacks of fate....I am thinking about taking out the Tetsubo, and running x2 Watch Commander with x3 Hiruma Ambusher. Not as potent as Cloud, but allows me to retain the majority of my deck while still having an answer for her in there. The Ambusher will also play well with Shosuro Miyako.

I personally use 3 Cloud the Mind in Scorpion lately to combat Lion.

Not wishing to turn this into a Cloud the Mind thread, but in general, it’s one of the best tools that can let you combat the Actions and powerful effects of several cards that your opponent can play with a relatively low costing attachment.

If you have any shugenja cards in your deck, make sure to sneak in 1 or 2 Clouds - you won’t be sorry.

Force reduction with Fiery Madness and Sinister Soshi works pretty well, too. Ultimately, she'll get to bow someone more often than note, but just try to make it as expensive as possible to do so. Then swing back with Political Water and unbow

Scorpion can use Cloud the mind without splashing Phoenix, as they have 3 shugenjas and introducing miya mistic is not a bad option as it reinforces the dragon pairing.

Cloud the mind is quite a good option for many other situations also.

I will try that option myself.

One LPB isn't too bad to deal with, as there are lots of ways to deal with it (Cloud, Hiroue, Ring of Water, etc.)

If your opponent gets out multiples, you're gonna have a bad time. If they all have fate on them, you're gonna have a horrible time.

1 hour ago, SolidusPrime said:

Using the Spiritcallers and some card that adds fate to them, they are keeping these characters in the game for a long time and it's becoming an issue for me.

Just a note, cause as you wrote it, it seems they’re playing it wrong in this case. If you put somebody in play with Spiritcaller, they have to go at the end of the conflict. It doesn’t matter that they put Fate over them (probably with For Greater Glory). If they’re in play at the end of the conflict (the actual conflict, not the entire conflict phase) they go to the bottom of their Dynasty deck (also preventing the other player to call them again with another Spiritcaller).

29 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Just a note, cause as you wrote it, it seems they’re playing it wrong in this case. If you put somebody in play with Spiritcaller, they have to go at the end of the conflict. It doesn’t matter that they put Fate over them (probably with For Greater Glory). If they’re in play at the end of the conflict (the actual conflict, not the entire conflict phase) they go to the bottom of their Dynasty deck (also preventing the other player to call them again with another Spiritcaller).

Good call...I did not even catch that. They have been leaving the LPBs in play, or discarding them.

32 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

One LPB isn't too bad to deal with, as there are lots of ways to deal with it (Cloud, Hiroue, Ring of Water, etc.)

If your opponent gets out multiples, you're gonna have a bad time. If they all have fate on them, you're gonna have a horrible time.

You know what a great card against Lions Pride Brawler? Playing Way of the Crab after the fate phase and the board is cleared and she's on her own.

32 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Just a note, cause as you wrote it, it seems they’re playing it wrong in this case. If you put somebody in play with Spiritcaller, they have to go at the end of the conflict. It doesn’t matter that they put Fate over them (probably with For Greater Glory). If they’re in play at the end of the conflict (the actual conflict, not the entire conflict phase) they go to the bottom of their Dynasty deck (also preventing the other player to call them again with another Spiritcaller).

This, is why you splash Crab for Reprieve.

14 minutes ago, SolidusPrime said:

Good call...I did not even catch that. They have been leaving the LPBs in play, or discarding them.

Yeah, it’s a common mistake I’ve seen a couple of times. As if Spiritcaller wasn’t already good enough...

13 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

This, is why you splash Crab for Reprieve.

Now you got me there... probably you’re right, although I think that the intended design of the Spiritcaller is that the “called one” goes out at the end of the conflict no matter what. After all, it’s just a Spirit of a being that ceased to exist (I know this is fluff, but it’s what I like to think)

1 minute ago, Tabris2k said:

Now you got me there... probably you’re right, although I think that the intended design of the Spiritcaller is that the “called one” goes out at the end of the conflict no matter what. After all, it’s just a Spirit of a being that ceased to exist (I know this is fluff, but it’s what I like to think)

Just means the Spirit has a powerful will and forces itself to stay longer.

35 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

You know what a great card against Lions Pride Brawler? Playing Way of the Crab after the fate phase and the board is cleared and she's on her own.

3 hours ago, SolidusPrime said:

How are you Scorpion players dealing with the Lion's Pride Brawler?

Just now, Yogo Gohei said:

K. The answer is obviously play Crab.

Phoenix players everywhere would appreciate it if everyone just stopped playing Scorpion

You can Hiroue them.

Yeah, wish Reprieve said Discard instead of "leaves play"

Anyhow, I suppose I'd rather Lion splashing Crab instead of Dragon.

That being said, last tourney I went against a Lion player who had at least 1 LPB on the board every turn of the game. We went to time and I'm pretty sure I'd have broken his stronghold next turn, but he won on tie breakers with Honor.

Feels good when Togashi manages to stop a military attack from every single Lion character on the board.

Except their target doesn't need to be in the battle, so they can just use their ability to bow guys at home.

EDIT: Oh, you mean Hiroue them when you're the attacker.

3 hours ago, Hinomura said:

Force reduction with Fiery Madness and Sinister Soshi works pretty well, too. Ultimately, she'll get to bow someone more often than note, but just try to make it as expensive as possible to do so. Then swing back with Political Water and unbow

Dammit. You’ve found the answer. Scorpion debuff. Makes it hard to get most effect from her, and she becomes a big fat high cost lump that gives no force and only bows very weak stuff unless we waste a lot of cards getting her to work.

11 minutes ago, JolOfNar said:

Dammit. You’ve found the answer. Scorpion debuff. Makes it hard to get most effect from her, and she becomes a big fat high cost lump that gives no force and only bows very weak stuff unless we waste a lot of cards getting her to work.

Yeah my local Lion player hates playing against me due to those and just good old dishonor.

I was gonna mention it, but a debuffed Brawler still bows all your strong political guys, and nothing stops them from buffing her with a Katana (which they were probably gonna do anyways) and doing whatever they wanted then. Sometimes it feels like the best counterplay is just to attack before they can (which works half the time! :P). Pacifism isn't bad, but she's still a beast on the political attack too. Just means that any resources they put towards buffing her Military for the bow don't also help her skill in conflicts.

Of all the cards I've played against, I think Brawler makes me the most indignant, because every time I'm like, "That character didn't want any part of that conflict! This is uncalled for!"

She's good.

1 hour ago, AradonTemplar said:

I was gonna mention it, but a debuffed Brawler still bows all your strong political guys, and nothing stops them from buffing her with a Katana (which they were probably gonna do anyways) and doing whatever they wanted then. Sometimes it feels like the best counterplay is just to attack before they can (which works half the time! :P). Pacifism isn't bad, but she's still a beast on the political attack too. Just means that any resources they put towards buffing her Military for the bow don't also help her skill in conflicts.

Of all the cards I've played against, I think Brawler makes me the most indignant, because every time I'm like, "That character didn't want any part of that conflict! This is uncalled for!"

She's good.

I also feel like a majority of the time, attacking is the best defense. I feel like the system promotes and encourages it which is cool.

10 hours ago, RandomJC said:

This, is why you splash Crab for Reprieve.

If they are splashing Crab, then they aren't splashing Dragon - and Cloud the Mind is 100% the way to go. Scorpion have plenty of Shugenja so there is no need to splash Phoenix if you don't want to. Poison and dishonor can help, but Fine Katana is free to counter your 1 cost to poison, and LBP only has 1 glory meaning dishonor isn't that great... CtM is going to be the most efficient way of managing her.

Remember you get first action as defender - so another route could be to use Outwit to send her back again before she can use her ability, try this one out. Hiroue pulling her into defense is also solid, make sure he's in your deck.

4 hours ago, Soshi Nimue said:

Remember you get first action as attacker - so another route could be to use Outwit to send her back again before she can use her ability, try this one out. Hiroue pulling her into defense is also solid, make sure he's in your deck.

Ummm, no... defender always get the first action. Unless you’re using that spoiled Unicorn card.

Edit: Oh, you meant that you get the first action because the Lion has to be the attacker if they want to use LPB’s ability. My bad, I totally misunderstood.

8 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Yeah, it’s a common mistake I’ve seen a couple of times. As if Spiritcaller wasn’t already good enough...

Now you got me there... probably you’re right, although I think that the intended design of the Spiritcaller is that the “called one” goes out at the end of the conflict no matter what. After all, it’s just a Spirit of a being that ceased to exist (I know this is fluff, but it’s what I like to think)

Now this might need a FAQ since I do not think Reprieve would keep them in play.