So...thought experiment on the new preview:

• Wedge Antilles
  • Adaptability
  • Flight Assist Astromech
  • Integrated Astromech
• Wes Janson
  • Veteran Instincts
  • Flight Assist Astromech
  • Integrated Astromech
• Horton Salm
  • BTL-A4 Y-wing
  • Proton Torpedoes
  • Extra Munitions
  • Twin Laser Turret
  • Guidance Chips

Wedge & Wes play dogfighter, Horton plays torpedo bomber to start with and then can discard BTL-A4 Y-wing to 'unlock' his turret if required, along with Guidance Chips, the Extra Munitions munitions token and the Extra Munitions card itself for a total of 4 'spare' shields in his back pocket (and with his pilot ability he can afford to spend the odd turn recovering shields as the twin laser turret still gets rerolls.

I think that Wedge and Wes are both very muh worth considering with Flight Assist Astromech, but I'd be worried that you're not maxing out Wedge's damage potential without some kind of passive modification EPT. Plus, Horton wants to use his torps early in this build, but when he's attacking at Range 2-3 early, he's still going to have the BTL-A4 title intact, and he'll get comparable damage out of his TLT+primary shot (especially given that Wedge and Wes will ideally have stripped his target of tokens) as he would from the Proton. This also has the advantage of not having to worry about getting TLs on his potentially higher PS target (it's not like PS9 or higher is rare at the moment).

So, you could tweak the build a little and have it looking like this:

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Wedge Antilles (29)
Expertise (4)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Bomb Loadout (0)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 99

Here, Wes has a small bid, which should ensure he gets to shoot first and do his his token stripping trick on anything equal or lower PS than he is. Wedge gets to follow up at PS9 with what should be a very effective shot - either TLed and Focussed (thanks to Expertise) or able to save his focus for defence. Finally, Horton comes in, firing his BTL TLT and primary on what should be a tokenless target.

Later in the game, Chopper can consume the BTL title to let Horton shoot out of arc, and you have a total of 6 spare shields (Title and Chips, plus the EM tokens that go on Bomb Loadout and Extra Munitions itself, plus those two cards), although I doubt you'll get the chance to use all 6. If you wanted, Expertise could drop back to Predator and go for a 2 point bid, but that would be a meta call.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

So...thought experiment on the new preview:

• Wedge Antilles
  • Adaptability
  • Flight Assist Astromech
  • Integrated Astromech
• Wes Janson
  • Veteran Instincts
  • Flight Assist Astromech
  • Integrated Astromech
• Horton Salm
  • BTL-A4 Y-wing
  • Proton Torpedoes
  • Extra Munitions
  • Twin Laser Turret
  • Guidance Chips

Wedge & Wes play dogfighter, Horton plays torpedo bomber to start with and then can discard BTL-A4 Y-wing to 'unlock' his turret if required, along with Guidance Chips, the Extra Munitions munitions token and the Extra Munitions card itself for a total of 4 'spare' shields in his back pocket (and with his pilot ability he can afford to spend the odd turn recovering shields as the twin laser turret still gets rerolls.

Did you intend to place Chopper on the Y-Wing?

My roommate and I had noticed the same thing about Extra Munitions... if you put that and the Bomb Loadout on a Y-Wing you could get 4 extra shields without losing /any/ functionality, yeah?

23 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

My roommate and I had noticed the same thing about Extra Munitions... if you put that and the Bomb Loadout on a Y-Wing you could get 4 extra shields without losing /any/ functionality, yeah?

If you just want to use it for shield recovery, yes. That's 4 shields for 3 points (including the price of chopper). Provided you've got the action economy to support it (which basically means Horton Salm), that's a pretty good deal.

@Magnus Grendel

So you can discard the cards themselves and the EM tokens right?

10 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

(thanks to Expertise) or able to save his focus for defence.

Just chiming in to say that Expertise on x-wing is not so great. They need their k-turns too much. Predator is ultimately better.

21 minutes ago, Cow-of-Doom said:

@Magnus Grendel

So you can discard the cards themselves and the EM tokens right?

Yup. And Extra Munitions says to put a token on /all/ torp/bomb/missile cards, which includes EM itself.

The only issue with Chopper and Extra Munitions if you don't plan on taking any actual munitions is that 3 points is also exactly the cost of R5-P9, which allows you to spend a focus token to regain a shield at the end of the round. Same trading one action for one shield, but without any limit on how often it can be used, and with the option to turn that focus into offense. You'd be more vulnerable to Hotshot Copilot and Carnor Jax, however. If you see Jax, well, may the force be with your opponent for bringing Interceptors. HSCP, though, is not that unheard of on RAC/Kylo builds.

The thought of putting an Extra Munition'ed Ion Bomb on a Y-Wing is pretty tempting, though. Chopper, EM, Ion Bomb comes out to 5 points, with Bomb Loadout, Guidance Chips, and BTL-A4 ready to trash.

Hrm. Maybe not the title. I was going to say "take it anyhow, and trash it in the first round if you don't want to joust that mach" but I don't think you could. You can't use Pulsed Ray Shields or R5-P9 while at max shields per the latest FAQ, and by extension you probably wouldn't be able to use Chopper to remove the title unless you've lost shields.

20 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

Just chiming in to say that Expertise on x-wing is not so great. They need their k-turns too much. Predator is ultimately better.

That's my personal feeling, too. Expertise is also less flexible, in that if you want to increase firepower, you need to TL. Wedge and Wes are pretty high PS and may have the information they need to determine whether they need a defensive focus. However, Predator lets you just focus every turn, and either double-mod your attack, or spend a focus on defense.

That said, Flight-Assist Astromech probably makes it a lot easier to avoid K-Turning on an X-Wing, and avoid the stress. I think I'd still probably rather have the cheaper Predator, since it feels like stress mechanics are coming back a bit.

Seismic on the Horton might be cool. It’s an action so you do the action and can still attack and use chopper if needed.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If you just want to use it for shield recovery, yes. That's 4 shields for 3 points (including the price of chopper). Provided you've got the action economy to support it (which basically means Horton Salm), that's a pretty good deal.

It'll be interesting to see if the next FAQ will address the EM token on EM and Bomb Loadout. Maybe it's not worth being FAQ'd, but it makes no sense for bomb loadout to have an ordinance token because... it's not ordinance. I'm not arguing that you can't use it in that way because it's pretty clear what EM says. But practically speaking, it makes no sense. Then again, neither does Chopper throwing crew members out the window to save a shield.

28 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

Then again, neither does Chopper throwing crew members out the window to save a shield.

Actually, we've seen Chopper throw crew members overboard for less... (Ezra, a courier droid, etc...)

No he's just stuffing them in the hull breaches.

Wedge (29)

Flight *** Astro (1)

Integrated Astro (0)

Intensity (2)

Utterly ridiculous. But still...............

18 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Hrm. Maybe not the title. I was going to say "take it anyhow, and trash it in the first round if you don't want to joust that mach" but I don't think you could. You can't use Pulsed Ray Shields or R5-P9 while at max shields per the latest FAQ, and by extension you probably wouldn't be able to use Chopper to remove the title unless you've lost shields.

Correct. You need a lost shield to recover to be able to recover. But it's still a sensible card to trash early on.

18 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The only issue with Chopper and Extra Munitions if you don't plan on taking any actual munitions is that 3 points is also exactly the cost of R5-P9, which allows you to spend a focus token to regain a shield at the end of the round. Same trading one action for one shield, but without any limit on how often it can be used, and with the option to turn that focus into offense. You'd be more vulnerable to Hotshot Copilot and Carnor Jax, however. If you see Jax, well, may the force be with your opponent for bringing Interceptors. HSCP, though, is not that unheard of on RAC/Kylo builds.

Agreed. I see Chopper trashing Guidance Chips and Extra Munitions as a way to get mileage out of the cards once you've already fired off your torpedoes or dropped your bombs (or even whilst you're doing so); the cost of the cards is effectively 0 if you were bringing them on a torpedo-bomber anyway .

19 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

Just chiming in to say that Expertise on x-wing is not so great. They need their k-turns too much. Predator is ultimately better.

I can see advantages to Expertise, but...yeah. The 'full modification' rather than 'one die modification' really, really matters when you're throwing 4 dice or more (i.e. torpedoes). Provided you've got the 'other' dice modifier (lock with expertise, focus with predator) the difference between the two with only 3 dice is less than 5% (it's why howlrunner's 1-die reroll has always been 'good enough' for 2-dice TIE fighters).

By comparison, Predator works on a red move or if you get stress dumped on you by R3-A2 or Assaj Ventress, all of which are pretty likely to come up in an evening's gaming, and it saves you a point into the bargain.

35 minutes ago, Procastination said:

Wedge (29)

Flight Assist Astro (1)

Integrated Astro (0)

Intensity (2)

The problem with this is that you don't get the boost if your target is already in arc, so your access to boost/barrel roll is very much as a 'fallback' - unlike BB-8/Poe Dameron or Snap Wexley, you can't rely on getting it turn after turn and your ability to 'reload' Intensity is pretty low too.

For a couple of points more, I'd probably rather take R7-T1 in the same loadout - if you land in arc at range 2, you can boost into range 1 - getting a target lock, an evade token (to help you survive a range 1 face-off) and a high-PS, -1 Agility, Target Locked punch-to-the-face almost worthy of Fenn Rau.

Flight Assist strikes me as a budget 'mech - best used with either very-high-PS-on-a-budget (Veteran Instincts/Adaptability X-wing Aces) or on the Generics (Rookies getting some striker-esque manouvrability without messing with their toughness and action economy.

Gotta get some Wookie in that list. Can't seem to fit Salm and Lowhhrick at the same time, can't even seem to get a proper Wookie Lib with Expertise in there if I use Salm. Three decent looking variations with furballs so far and not sure which is most appropriate.

Is it worth the two extra bid points for a squishier Wookie with sharper teeth? Is Salm's PS advantage and pilot ability worth a less than meta ideal Wookie? I get that I need the action efficiency to be able to actually use Chopper on the Y, but how much am I really depending on that? I definitely appreciate the discussion of the benefits/drawbacks of both Expertise and Predator.

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Kashyyyk Defender (24)
Breach Specialist (1)
Tactician (2)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 98

OR

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

OR

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Lowhhrick (28)
Expertise (4)
Breach Specialist (1)
Tactician (2)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 99

OR...I suppose it technically all fits if you are willing to accept this much cheese. From what I understand (which may be wrong but seems to be supported by the Mynocks for what that's worth), you could overcharge the shield on Salm Round 1 if you want. Could also throw Wookie Lib with Expertise, Tactician, and Breach Specialist in there instead of Low if his ability makes you nervous in the world of Harpoons.

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Lowhhrick (28)
Expertise (4)
Tactician (2)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomb Loadout (0)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

14 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Kashyyyk Defender (24)
Breach Specialist (1)
Tactician (2)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 98

It's a tough brick with some control ability - a nice idea. The issue will be keeping it on target, but Horton is pretty much 'straight-up-and-down' jousting, so it should work well.

14 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

The initiative bid....it probably fairly important. PS10 is not uncommon, ridiculous as that sounds, and Wes' ability means immensely more if he can shoot before other PS10 ships; PS10 usually means "missiles and torpedoes", so Wes' token-stripping ability usually spares you a return ordnance shot.

14 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Lowhhrick (28)
Expertise (4)
Breach Specialist (1)
Tactician (2)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

No.

Horton can make good use of 'Chopper' because he still gets rerolls with his turret without using an action on them. A Gold Squadron Pilot doesn't, and doesn't have the pilot skill to easily get a target lock on a higher PS (i.e. PS3+) opponent, making those torpedoes potentially hard to use.

14 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

OR...I suppose it technically all fits if you are willing to accept this much cheese. From what I understand (which may be wrong but seems to be supported by the Mynocks for what that's worth), you could overcharge the shield on Salm Round 1 if you want. Could also throw Wookie Lib with Expertise, Tactician, and Breach Specialist in there instead of Low if his ability makes you nervous in the world of Harpoons.

Wes Janson (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Lowhhrick (28)
Expertise (4)
Tactician (2)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomb Loadout (0)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

It is wrong. Rules reference, page 17:

Quote

• A ship cannot have more shield tokens than its shield value. If a ship has a number of shield tokens equal to its shield value, it cannot recover shields.

Chopper is explicitely 'recovering' shields, which is disallowed if you have full shields.

Yes, it's the first card not to include "(up to your shield value)." in the card text, but that's not needed because it's implicit in the instruction to "recover 1 shield", just like the range restriction is implicit in the instruction to "acquire a target lock".

I think with these new Astros, Wes/Wedge is gonna be very potent:

Wes (Adaptability, Flight-Assist Astro, IA)

Wedge (Expertise, FAA, IA)

Then you can use Jess (M9-G8, PA) to give Wes some better offense, or a Stress ship to draw fire (StressBraylen or Streszra)

So much good brainstorming here! I'd just like to chime in with how important the bid can be with Wes at ps 10. He can reliably shut down almost any attempt at his target to use ordnance in that first pass. I've found it's really important if you're using these t65s/y wings as their (lack of) defense means nearly full dmg is going to be taken. Shutting down that first proton/harpoon or whatever can be crucial.

Im not sold on using the new Astro on the x wing aces, but I'm finding myself more tempted after looking at some of these builds.