Sorry if this is actually covered but I can't find it.

The honor dial physically allows for a non-bid, but the rules specify a number from 1-5 must be bid. What do you do if one player (deliberately or accidentally) reveals a dial without a number showing as their bid?

No rule for that in L5R.

I've been told there is a rule in Conquest that says if a player reveals the dial with an ineligible bid (like, between two numbers), he is considered to have bidden the maximum (i.e. 5 for L5R). I think you could do that, as a judge call.

Draw your katana and behead the honorless dog for cheating!

Personally I'd treat it as a bid of 1 as a bid of "zero" pretty much means "Oh no! I'm about to die from honor loss! I don't wanna give you any more honor tokens!"

Had two people at my LGS also mention that. Whoever designed that dial should hang his/hers head in shame.

Have them commit seppuku?

7 hours ago, mplain said:

No rule for that in L5R.

I've been told there is a rule in Conquest that says if a player reveals the dial with an ineligible bid (like, between two numbers), he is considered to have bidden the maximum (i.e. 5 for L5R). I think you could do that, as a judge call.

I think the maximum bid would be an acceptable punishment for intentionally trying to mess up the dials.

sure the max is a punishment but it isnt always lol, if your opponent bids BLANK his punishment should be that your opponent gets to pick his number

If they were trying to bid 0, getting to bid 5 is probably going to be a shock, if not a game-ender outright

I do like the flexibility of letting the opponent pick the number though.

Thing is, I would think in most cases the opponent would probably pick 4-5 (unless they have some legitimate concern on giving their opponent that many cards). If they bid high, they probably don't want to lowball their opponent's bid and give them easy honor. If they bid mid range, bleeding them for a couple honor likely helps more than their opponent's extra cards help. And if they bid low, if they weren't at least considering an honor/ dishonor win, this is the perfect opportunity to really threaten that possibility.

Full Disclaimer: I enjoy dishonor decks and want to play honor decks, which may influence my perspective on this.

If you ask me to set as deterrence so that they are careful next time, might as well default ZERO bid but no honor to be provided.

Then again some dishonor decks might actually like it to be 5. But no card draw at 5 and lose honor seems a bit too much.

A tricky question. I'd be wary of setting the bid to be considered zero even with a no-honor exchange provision. Zero is not intended to be a possible bid without card effects to manipulate it that way. By making a new possible bid you end up changing a game mechanic that the game was designed with in mind (i.e. that base bids are from one to five.)

More to the point, using Contigency Plan to drop your bid to zero to dishonor out your opponent when they are at one honor is a thing, and unscrupulous players fearing such a loss could "accidentally" make an illegal honor bid to get a zero if zero was the punishment for an illegal bid.

Now, "Consider the bid a five but the player draws no cards" would be a pretty punishing rule.

Forced Reaction: When the honor bid dial of either player is revealed with an illegal bid, that dial's owner must affix a dishonor status token to their forehead. Then, both players make new honor bids. Until the end of the event, if a player with a dishonored status token on their forehead reveals an illegal bid during a game, that player must immediately concede the game.

5 hours ago, yujufrazer said:

sure the max is a punishment but it isnt always lol, if your opponent bids BLANK his punishment should be that your opponent gets to pick his number

In flightpath games, I believe this is what happens if you reveal an illegal dial.

The more I thought about trying to come up with some kind of a workaround punishment, the more it seemed there were niche applications for abuse. It seems like the easiest solution is to pick either 1 or 5, and treat all illegal bids as this, forever. Then there's no incentive to bid illegally for any reason (as it's just like a legal bid) and any accidents are just dealt with like a legal bid but with a (possibly) sub-optimal pick.

Because the "worst" possible choice will not always be 5 why not instead have tho opponent chose the value of the bid for the culprit?

I dislike involving players in judging decisions (beyond asking them what happened, obviously). All numbers are legal bids (unlike planet choice in Conquest) and the only reasons for having a dial in between numbers are serious carelessness (the dials don't bump easily) and cheating. So I'd give a straight game loss for making an illegal bid.

They definitely need to make some rule for this - I like the idea of letting the opponent choose the bid for a player who places an improper bid.

Bids 5 but only draws 1 card

I don't think there should be a rule for this, just like I don't think there should be a specific rule for every other form of cheating. A judge will try and make a fair outcome given the circumstances, and if there is repeat cheating then the penalties go up (lose the match > removed from tournament > restraining order).

The opponent should decide. Unless you want to be forgiving to them.

On 11/12/2017 at 5:38 PM, Robin Graves said:

Had two people at my LGS also mention that. Whoever designed that dial should hang his/hers head in shame.

In their defense, it's kind of hard to design a two-dimensional representation of a cube with only five sides.

10 hours ago, Mandalore525 said:

In their defense, it's kind of hard to design a two-dimensional representation of a cube with only five sides.

True, but then again, was it that necessary for it to be a 2D cube? I know it's supposed to be a gift box becaues when you bid more you are giving your oponent that honor (? still kinda odd) but they could have used a wheel with (1-5) instead of that hexagonal back shape.

It doesn’t matter what shape the dial is, there’s always room for “mistake”.

If it were a 1-5 pentagonal dial, there’s still the possibility of leaving the dial between 1 and 5.

So it’s better to have a rule. And will be good if FFG adressed this with an official rule.

But until then, in my playgroup we’ll stick with our houserule: if your bid is not entirely clear, you draw 1 card and give your opponent 4 honor (whatever his bid is)

Our House Rule is:

If honor dial is unclear - opponent chooses the bid for you. Nice opponents ask what they intended to bid and decides whether to honor that bid or not.

Sometimes it's an accident - but that accident should always favor the opponent.

I like to be a competitive player, so I like to see official rules to handle this stuff. In play at my LGS I'm likely to simply give the player the benefit of the doubt about what their bid was supposed to be. If someone builds a reputation for cheating I don't have to play them... so one way or another I'm not too concerned.

They certainly need to get an official tournament rule for this though. I wouldn't be surprised if it was "you get 1 warning, then DQ" but what do you do about that warning? What is the procedure?

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:58 PM, Tabris2k said:

It doesn’t matter what shape the dial is, there’s always room for “mistake”.

If it were a 1-5 pentagonal dial, there’s still the possibility of leaving the dial between 1 and 5.

No no no no. When you do that it's obvious you're doing something incorrect. With the L5R dial there's a blank space, leading people to assume you can bid blank, or zero.