FFG did a fantastic job on Chopper

By MacchuWA, in X-Wing

It's easy to complain when FFG makes a bad card, but it's also important, I think, to make note when they design a really good card. I think there are plenty of good cards in the Sheathipede expansion, but this one is, in my opinion, the best of the bunch:

swx72-chopper.png

Now, I'm not saying that Chopper is the best as in the most powerful or that he's going to define the meta in some way. Rather, I think he's a great example of a card that's powerful but balanced while retaining thematic elements.

First of all, he's balanced. Regen is a powerful ability - we've known that since the core set. Chopper lets you regen at a lower point cost than any other upgrade in the game, but it costs you your action to do it. That's balanced. But moreso than that, Chopper can't really ever be broken, because there's a hard limit on the number of shields you can regen based on the number of upgrades you have equipped. Sure, in theory, there might be some extreme corner case where a future expansion lets you put Scavenger Crane or the reload action on the same ship as Chopper allowing for (theoretically) infinite regen, but it'll always be tricky, and cost at least two actions to do - which'll make it expensive. I don't think that'll ever be a problem. Plus, there's plent of counterplay - you can stress him, bump him - even just choose not to shoot him until the end.

Beyond game balance, there's also theme, and it's here that Chopper really shines. Both this card and his crew card emphasize Chopper's tendency to hurt you while helping you, which is pretty much dead on to his character in the show. Beyond that basic point though is my favourite aspect of the card - Chopper's best fit isn't on the Sheathipede he came in - rather it's on the Y Wing, where you can combine him with a total of three 0 point cards (BTL-A4, Guidance Chips and Bomb Loadout). Better yet, in all three cases, removing these upgrades either has no detriment (bomb loadout) very likely no detriment (guidance chips since you almost certainly aren't bringing torpedoes int his configuration), or can actually be a benefit (BTL-A4 when you're not going to get a shot). And, of course, given how TLT works, sacrificing your action is less of a big deal on a TLT Y Wing than it would be on something that throws fewer red dice. This is brilliant, because Chopper's original purpose was as an astromech on a Y Wing during the Clone Wars.

I don't know for sure that this stuff was all intentional, and really I don't care. Whether they meant to or not (and honestly I have no reason to assume this wasn't done deliberately), FFG have made a fantastic card here, and they should get the recognition for doing so. Bravo designers!

Edited by MacchuWA

It doesn't say "your" upgrade card...

13 minutes ago, Astech said:

It doesn't say "your" upgrade card...

But it does say equipped. Which would heavily imply that Chopper can't Go-Go-Gadet-Hackwrench some other guy's ship. Because by that logic, it also doesn't exclude an enemy's ship.

The only thing that bugs me a little is the potential to stack 0 point junk on to jettison that has no purpose other than to be chopper fodder.

Can you discard Extra Munitions tokens for this though?

2 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

Can you discard Extra Munitions tokens for this though?

Yup. I haven't listed it out yet but a big fear is we'll see triple full or quad partial regen tlt as a thing........

Edited by Ralgon
6 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

The only thing that bugs me a little is the potential to stack 0 point junk on to jettison that has no purpose other than to be chopper fodder.

That's sort of the genius of it though. Imagine how much utility that brings to Y-Wings! They can just outright tank a shot as their action if they need to and that's GREAT.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

That's sort of the genius of it though. Imagine how much utility that brings to Y-Wings! They can just outright tank a shot as their action if they need to and that's GREAT.

As i said... you want tlt spam back?

Starting to think that attack: focus or TL header is necessary for tlt's

Edited by Ralgon

During Beta Test for X-Wing Miniatures, all astromech need action to use their ability :

ff4.jpg

2 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

That's sort of the genius of it though. Imagine how much utility that brings to Y-Wings! They can just outright tank a shot as their action if they need to and that's GREAT.

Well... they're spending their single action to recover a point of damage, on an AGI 1 ship, and discarding another upgrade with plausible usefulness. Compare this to the focus action, which is going to do damage, which is the Y-wing's whole thing.

FFG went with a conservative design here, and chopper won't see much use because of it. By taking that chopper action you're not doing much damage that round, so your ship is pretty much out of the fight entirely to... stay in the fight? Compare this with, say, the evade action, and it's no contest.

It's still a bad card. It's just underpowered regen, instead of overpowered regen.

If it was: "After executing a maneuver, you may discard 1 other equipped upgrade card to recover 1 shield (up to your shield value)." Then you'd have a decent card. The fact that it has 2 costs (especially the action cost) kills it for me.

I think it'll be DOA. I could be wrong though.

Edited by CRCL
19 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

The only thing that bugs me a little is the potential to stack 0 point junk on to jettison that has no purpose other than to be chopper fodder.

Have you watched 'Rebels'?

Because, I mean...we're talking Chopper, here.

Pure.

Theme.

Win.

3 minutes ago, CRCL said:

It's still a bad card. It's just underpowered regen, instead of overpowered regen.

If it was: "After executing a maneuver, you may discard 1 other equipped upgrade card to recover 1 shield (up to your shield value)." Then you'd have a decent card. The fact that it has 2 costs (especially the action cost) kills it for me.

I could be wrong though.

As much as i hate this right now......

Rebel operative x2

Tlt

Pulse ray shield

Y wing gold

Tlt

Bomb loadout

Guidance chips

Btl a4

Chopper

Y wing gold

Tlt

R5-p9

100 points and you have quad regen tlt. Not sure about the title on the chopper ship though, you'll have to make it really obnoxious early on to get shot and dump the title

2 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Have you watched 'Rebels'?

Because, I mean...we're talking Chopper, here.

Pure.

Theme.

Win.

38 minutes ago, Arkanta974 said:

During Beta Test for X-Wing Miniatures, all astromech need action to use their ability :

ff4.jpg

Man it looks so primitive. :-p

1 hour ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Man it looks so primitive. :-p

Look at those d6s, I'm so glad we're not stuck with them.

1 hour ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Man it looks so primitive. :-p

I kinda like it ! :D

  • Astromech need action
  • Generic Pilots with ability
  • Repair action

I think we r gonna see chopper with a Y-wing (probably Horton). Since Y wings can carry EM and EM gives itself a token and with the BTL-AR title and Guidance Chips you could go first Alpha Strike (you have to get rid of the first munitions token before you get rid of EM itself and then the other Torp before getting rid of Guidance Chips) and later TLT for the rest of the game making a total of 4 shields potentially recoverable with chop.

Don't know what is the total points for this but seams reasonable, if only Y-Wings had EPTs

34 minutes ago, Andreu said:

I think we r gonna see chopper with a Y-wing (probably Horton). Since Y wings can carry EM and EM gives itself a token and with the BTL-AR title and Guidance Chips you could go first Alpha Strike (you have to get rid of the first munitions token before you get rid of EM itself and then the other Torp before getting rid of Guidance Chips) and later TLT for the rest of the game making a total of 4 shields potentially recoverable with chop.

Don't know what is the total points for this but seams reasonable, if only Y-Wings had EPTs

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 34

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

8+5 HP, consitently modded TLT shots, and annoyng enough if you don't focus him down ASAP.

... probably too expensive anyway, but he's certainly amusing.

So, Chopper and Extra Munitions ...

latest?cb=20150525191932

Since EM is a torpedo upgrade, it should put an EM token on itself. So if Chopper discards it, he first discards the token, then discards the card on the second use. That's potentially 5 uses on a Y-wing (at the cost of 2 additional points). Put Airen Cracken or a Sheathipede nearby to trigger without the action cost.

It's not as good as R2D2, and has more control than R5P9. Not broken, but good, and less likely to be overshadowed than Gonk (who pays more for two actions to regen).

Edit: beaten to it!

Edited by Hawkstrike

People keep using the words bad card.. I think it is an actually balanced card.

The fact that Chopper can sacrifice the thing (Integrated Astromech) that will sacrifice HIM is pure thematic gold.

Equipping a bunch of inexpensive upgrades that can be sacrificed for a shield costing an action seems a very decent mechanic.

Chopper throwing out an astromech on the sheathipede to get a shield, also thematic.

Love this card for fun casual games. Don't know if it will matter or not in tournament play, but I only play a handful of tournaments anyway so casual is all good with me!

All of wave 12 seems on awhole balanced.

people howl at moon when stuff is OP on release

people howl at moon when it's balanced on release

& guess what they howl when it's DOA.

i feel sorry for FFG, as they will never and I mean never please every single X-Wing fan.

Edited by the1hodgy
1 hour ago, Reiver said:

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 34

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

8+5 HP, consitently modded TLT shots, and annoyng enough if you don't focus him down ASAP.

... probably too expensive anyway, but he's certainly amusing.

I think if this were a good build, we'd see it with R5P9, which has the same action for regen with no discard. Extra munitions doing nothing inflates the cost.

If you drop munitions, you still have 3 upgrades you can drop, which are free (title, bomb loadout, chips). That makes Horton cost 32 instead of 34, and it at least takes advantage of Chopper's low cost.

27 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

All of wave 12 seems on awhole balanced.

people howl at moon when stuff is OP on release

people howl at moon when it's balanced on release

& guess what they howl when it's DOA.

i feel sorry for FFG, as they will never and I mean never please every single X-Wing fan.

:( sigh...I'm afraid your right.

Well! For what it's worth, my son and I LOVE what FFG is doing with the new waves :)!!!