Thoughts on universal light saber spec

By Wendelboe, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny RPG

Looking for feedback on creating a universal light saber spec (maybe a universal "force wizard" spec in the future). First, the reasoning. Generally once through your first tree, your next tree either diversifies or compliments your current skill set. Diversification is what it is, but I feel in F&D, complimenting a saber spec currently is does not synergize as well as other specs in EoE and AoR. For example, with EoE if you wanted to really pour on the brawling, you could go Martial Artist/Marauder. I do not feel a second saber spec synergizes as well because you now have to prioritize 2 characteristics as opposed to one. you are also gimped wit just one force rating unless you go Niman. That's where I feel an universal saber spec should come in, but am looking for some help in brain storming. I already have some rough thoughts and am looking for feedback.

-First, and maybe most controversial is that I am thinking the tree would have 2 force points. Firstly, there should not be a fast, easy path to the force points (think placing it like"bring it down" in big game hunter). For a character to really shine, even a melee force user, 2 force points is a bare minimum, and three is ideal. This I believe would put a melee centric force user with 2 full trees and a hand full of melee assisting force powers an relatively even footing with a non-force using melee centric character that would be at about 2 and 1/2 trees in. Past that, I am thinking

-3 ranks parry and 3 ranks of reflect

-2 or 3 ranks of grit and toughened

-duelist training

-dedication

-Resist Disarm (deep in the tree)

-other thoughts such as defensive stance, defensive training, Jump up...

Thoughts? at this point I am bouncing it around in my head but have a vision. Feedback would be appreciated.

Heh...

2 Force rating bumps and Dedication, AND 3 ranks Parry/Reflect AAAND Duelist Training stacked w/ Grits and Tougheneds?

Heh, do what works for your table man (and this is just a blatant power grab but maybe that's your thing?), but I wouldn't expect people here to support it. Especially since the canonical basic LS form is already present as a Specialization in the system.

This is just munchikin crap.

1) I think this is a very bad idea, it's better than any other option as in why wouldn't I take this which is a clear mark of overpowered

2) I don't think you're intending to be a munchkin, so emsquared can we cut him some slack?

3) both Niman disciple and Shi-Cho knight already do exactly what you're asking for, Niman disciple gets you a force rating, you have to waste 10 xp on Niman technique and you can buy around the only other 2 talents that use willpower. Shi-Cho knight doesn't get you a force die or reflect but every talent works with any other lightsaber spec (none of them requires brawn)

4) If you want a movie quality Jedi in 2 specs you can get it with Niman disciple and sentry in either order add the enhance, sense, move, and influence force powers to taste

5) there are several half-way lightsaber specs designed for just this purpose: sentry, armorer, arbiter

6) if you really insist on this, I have 2 suggestions for you,

A: take Niman disciple replace draw closer, force assault with improved reflect and improved parry, replace Niman technique with well rounded, strip off the class skills and call it a day.

B: take the force sensitive emergent specialization from AOR, replace insight with well rounded, replace the 2 ranks of sleight of mind with reflect, replace the 2 ranks of indistinguishable with parry, replace 2 of the following 3 with improved party and improved reflect, invigorate, force of will, balance, and call it a day

Edited by EliasWindrider
Fixing typos/auto mis-correct

I will be honest, I don't have alot of experience in play. Just a little game play in EoE. I have seen some pretty brutal combos of published specs on that side. F&D on paper dosnt seem to have that sort of synergy in "combat specs"... but again I don't have the game play experience with F&D to back it up, just a feeling.

As far as this universal spec, I am not looking to be munchkin. I want it to be good, like "I have moved through the Striker tree and just want to be moar better as a Striker", then this is the tree for you, but if you wanted to have a duelists flair with your Ataru, then you would have to go into Makashi. I honestly want the spec to be kinda vanilla so that it doesn't overshadow a form spec, but instead augments it after. That is why just ranks in parry and reflect, but nothing improved (need a form spec for that). Grit and toughened were there for "filler" but maybe too good for filler, open to thoughts.

Elias, I see where your coming from with 3 and 4, but it just feels like it runs contrary to character vision that if I want to role play an Ataru who can do some force stuff, but I have to build a Shi-Cho/Niman or a Niman/Sentry and narrate those builds to Ataru. I mean, Ataru and Seer have a lot going for them together, gives the forcieness I'm looking for, etc. but I would have to narrate away any Seer fluff because it doesn't fit with my concept.

1 hour ago, Wendelboe said:

I will be honest, I don't have alot of experience in play. Just a little game play in EoE. I have seen some pretty brutal combos of published specs on that side. F&D on paper dosnt seem to have that sort of synergy in "combat specs"... but again I don't have the game play experience with F&D to back it up, just a feeling.

As far as this universal spec, I am not looking to be munchkin. I want it to be good, like "I have moved through the Striker tree and just want to be moar better as a Striker", then this is the tree for you, but if you wanted to have a duelists flair with your Ataru, then you would have to go into Makashi. I honestly want the spec to be kinda vanilla so that it doesn't overshadow a form spec, but instead augments it after. That is why just ranks in parry and reflect, but nothing improved (need a form spec for that). Grit and toughened were there for "filler" but maybe too good for filler, open to thoughts.

Elias, I see where your coming from with 3 and 4, but it just feels like it runs contrary to character vision that if I want to role play an Ataru who can do some force stuff, but I have to build a Shi-Cho/Niman or a Niman/Sentry and narrate those builds to Ataru. I mean, Ataru and Seer have a lot going for them together, gives the forcieness I'm looking for, etc. but I would have to narrate away any Seer fluff because it doesn't fit with my concept.

You could go ataru striker/niman disciple waste 10 xp on niman technique and buy around force assault and draw closer, how does that not get you what you want? Possibly you only have force rating 2 instead of 3. But that probably gets you closest to what your asking for.

But seriously wanting to be a total badass with force powers and a lightsaber in 2 specs is not something that you can do by any route, there are plenty of ways to be great at one and mediocre at the other and a few ways to be "good" at both. But you are asking for too much.

BTW a fellow player in my current game (first time I haven't gm'd the game since an rcr campaign in 2012) is going the atari striker/seer route, I'm play a niman disciole/martial artist, i've got 1 force power sense with the maxed out defense upgrade. My character gets hit a lot less than his does. I don't think I took a single wound in the last session. She (his character is female) got hurt bad, difference is that melee attacks against me face 2 red and 2 black, against him 2 purple, short ranged light attacks against me face 1 red 1 black 1 purple, against him 1 purple. I have 5 ranks of parry, 3 of reflect and parry costs me only 2 strain, he has 2 ranks of parry and 2 reflect. He has force rating 3 I have force rating 1 but he leaves 2 or maybe all 3 of his force dice comitted to boost his agility to 6 (enhance), I leave my force die comité to sense. He's got stronger offense I've got stronger defense. But like I was saying striker seer isn't a bad combo.

Edited by EliasWindrider

I think the reason you are disappointed with the FaD specs is that you are expecting a Jedi to be just as good with a lightsaber as a non force sensitive dedicated combat build WHILE ALSO BEING AWESOME WITH FORCE POWERS for the SAME amount of xp.

Unfortunately from your point of view FFG makes you pay extra xp to ALSO be awesome at force powers for balance reasons. If you put a knightlevel ataru striker up against any knight level melee spec from aor or eote with the possible exception of martial artist, the ataru striker is going to win more often than not while also being good with a blaster and pilot.

Compared to AoR or EotE, ataru striker by itself is a great combo. It is the most offensive of ant lightsaber spec. But it's not as defensive or good with the force as some other FaD specs. You can get great in either of those other areas with 1 more spec, or you can get GOOD in both by taking niman disciple. But if you want to be great at everything you're going to have to pay a corresponding amount of xp.

As a cooresponding illustration, how would you build a character that is grateful at melee, ranged combat, and piloting with 1spec in AoR or EotE? Gagdgeteer would do that adequately but not awesomely. How would you get that and force powers in 2 specs in AoR or EotE, I'm thinking Gagdgeteer force sensitive emergent is the only candidate, so compare a Gagdgeteer force sensitive emergent to a an ataru striker niman disciple.

They look pretty similar to me, both have force rating 2, 2 dedications, probably 2 black dice to defense, that looks pretty well balanced to me.

I'd honestly suggest holding off on building your own specializations until you've gotten more experience with the system.

As emsquared noted, what you suggested is essentially "munchkin crap" in that it's all the 'good" talents in one easy-to-get package. A good rule of thumb for custom specializations, especially universal ones, is that if there's little to no reason mechanically speaking for a character to not take this spec, then it's far too good. What you suggested would be very difficult for a lightsaber-focused PC to pass up given what it offers.

Elias has a point in that a lot of people new to Force and Destiny come in with the misconception that the PCs are going to easily be able to emulate/replicate the kind of things we see Jedi in SW media accomplish, most notably Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka in The Clone Wars, but also Kanan and to an extent Ezra from Rebels.

Problem is that FFG designed the game to emulate Luke's progression from unaware farm boy to junior Jedi Knight as seen in the original films. So a PC that's good at using a lightsaber and good at using the Force has to make a serious XP investment in additional specializations in order to reach that point. During one of his guest stints on the Order 66 podcast, Sam Stewart (lead designer) even said that a proper Jedi Knight in this system would require hundreds of earned XP to have just the basics that we see trained Jedi in SW media possess. And part of that process is purchasing multiple specializations.

The game is also designed so that the PCs who are good at lightsabers (which are incredibly powerful weapons in this system in contrast to prior Star Wars RPGs thanks to Breach 1 being able to blow through most any targets' soak) aren't going to automatically be as good at Force usage (i.e. no chance to boost their Force Rating) with Niman Disciple being a notable exception, mostly as it lacks either Improved Parry or Improved Reflect, although sourcebooks have introduced specs that offer Improved Reflect and a Force Rating, but with Improved Reflect being more difficult to acquire than the talent is for a Shien Expert.

All that said, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the upcoming Dawn of Rebellion sourcebook will have some sort of Jedi Padawan universal spec, given how central of a role Ezra has in the Rebels series (first two seasons especially are about his growth from self-centered street rat into a Jedi Knight).

Also, a while back I did write-up a Jedi Initiate universal specialization as part of my Ways of the Force fan supplement, which was updated back in August 2016 to account for the material in Force and Destiny. It's certainly not got everything your probably wanting, but it does offer Improved Parry and a Force Rating, though getting them both is going to require a lot of XP.

You can find the v2.0 of Ways of the Force here: http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/2016/08/relearning-ways-of-force.html

One question would be, is 3 force points really awesome with the force? With just Ataru and one force point you have some utility with Hawk Bat, or you can commit a dice to something. Saber throw does not seem practical until you have at least 2 force points. 3 dice seems to be the point where you can do meaningful things with the force. At this point the XP investment is for all purposes the same as a EoE character well into a 3rd tree. If I was looking to have a melee centric build that was based on Ataru, choose a complimentary tree, and select force powers that would augment that, how would that stack to a character that is a Marauder/Gagdgeteer that is is also half way through Martial Artist? The EoE spec combo seems superior and I have seen it played (not with the martial artist yet) and it was a beast. To put it in MMO terms. I am looking to DPS with Ataru augmented with the force. Problem is that the guy over there using EoE rules set looks like he can DPS better and can Tank to boot.

2 hours ago, Wendelboe said:

One question would be, is 3 force points really awesome with the force? With just Ataru and one force point you have some utility with Hawk Bat, or you can commit a dice to something. Saber throw does not seem practical until you have at least 2 force points. 3 dice seems to be the point where you can do meaningful things with the force. At this point the XP investment is for all purposes the same as a EoE character well into a 3rd tree. If I was looking to have a melee centric build that was based on Ataru, choose a complimentary tree, and select force powers that would augment that, how would that stack to a character that is a Marauder/Gagdgeteer that is is also half way through Martial Artist? The EoE spec combo seems superior and I have seen it played (not with the martial artist yet) and it was a beast. To put it in MMO terms. I am looking to DPS with Ataru augmented with the force. Problem is that the guy over there using EoE rules set looks like he can DPS better and can Tank to boot.

With a lightsaber that is mildly upgraded, an ataru striker is going to out DPS almost any melee build from EotE, the reason why is that the EotE or AoR is going to have to get through between 2 and 6 soak for most opponents whereas with breach 1 on the lightsaber, you can ignore up to 10 points of soak. That's huge.

If all you want is DPS, then why did you mention the ranks of parry and reflect as a desirable quality for the build?

But seriously ataru striker plus Niman disciple can get you agility 6 (start with a 4 and put 2 dedications in it), and force rating 2, that's linked 2 thanks to saber swarm, 6 dice (several of them yellow) going up against 2 purple and a black will usually give you enough success snd advantage to hit and a activate saber swarm twice, especially if you used that in combination with hawk back swoop which let's you include the 2 force dice in the pool and then choose whether the white pips count as success or advantage. That's 2 to 3 hits ignoring 10 points of soak each. Niman disciple will also get you the 3 ranks of parry and 3 ranks of reflect and 2 ranks of defensive training so you can "tank".

Also, I tend to avoid Saber throw, especially with an ataru striker because since agility is your top spec you're going to be awesome with a blaster anyway.

Well to roll things back a bit, what I was looking for in a character concept not at char gen, but after significant play would be Starting with Ataru as the base, a goal of essentially the full Ataru tree, with (most importantly) 3 force dice, 5 total ranks of parry, 5 total ranks of reflect, a couple ranks of Grit and Toughness, a point of Dedication on top of the one it Ataru, and a rank of defensive training to give a tiny bit of defense without having to get it from armor . Seer has a lot of cool stuff and talents that could fit my character concept, and gives Ataru the +2 force dice I am looking for, but is lacking others. This is what was the draw to create a universal spec. Something that could help my character attain my vision with a full commitment through this second tree. I genuinely am looking for it to be a balanced tree, and something that could be used not just for my Ataru/universal saber character, but also be an option for a Makashi or a Shi-cho or Shien.

That said, for the universal spec I was thinking 2x FR, 3x parry, 3x reflect, 1x defensive training, 1x dedication, 2x Grit, 2x toughness with 6 more spots for filler talents. Just a secondary spec that that would be an option for the character that wanted to stay focused on on singular style and grow in force strength in pursuit of improving that style. In essence, answering the question of how do I become a better Ataru striker (or Makashi Duelist, or Shien) after finishing that tree with something other than "you have to now learn Niman, or have to become a Seer, or Sage". Again, I am fully looking to balance the tree. Not make a cheese 120 xp dash to +2 force points. honestly make a balance tree. I was not expecting the outright cries of MUNCHKIN! especially after having seen whats possible as a non-force user in EoE.

Universal spec aside, I spent some time looking through the trees currently available to see how I could get to my objective (bolded above) using RaW with about 320 XP beyone finishing the Ataru tree (basically a full 2nd tree + the 2nd Spec "tax") +/-. I found 2 paths.

1.) Invest 55 xp in Navigator +20 xp "tax" to get a rank of Grit and a FP. Then get almost everything in Niman except 1 rank of defensive training, Draw Closer and Force Assault for 245 xp + 40 xp "tax". This gets everything I want minus 1 rank of toughness but gives a 6th rank of parry. In the bonus category of talents I wasn't looking for but had to get anyway there is from Navigator: Shortcut, Planet Mapper, and Uncanny Sense and from Niman: Center of Being, and Improved, Nobodies Fool, Niman Tech, Sense Emotion and Sum Djem. The cost would be 360 xp. This could be dropped to 320 xp if I dropped the 6th rank of parry and and one rank of quick strike from Ataru. Esentialy I can complete all my goals (minus one rank of toughness) for the same xp as purchasing a full home brewed universal spec that may actually be subjectively better then the home brewed spec (depending on what 6 talents round out this spec).

2.) Invest 140 xp in Seer +30 xp Tax to get +2 FP and a Grit rank. Then invest 175 points in Niman (avoiding the Force point because Seer has you covered, also avoiding the centers of being). Again, this gives everything I am looking for minus one rank of toughness. Bonus from Seer are Uncanny Reaction, Keen Eyed, Sense Advantage, The Force is my Ally, and Natural Mystic; and bonus from Niman being Nobodies Fool, Niman Tech, Sense Emotion and Sum Djem. Problem here is that this costs 385 xp. 65 more xp is significant and would require some sacrifices in Ataru that maybe the talents in Seer make up for?

Another point about 1 and 2 is that there is still alot of flexibility in their trees after I have reached my "goal". There is still "room to grow" if you will. With a universal spec, there would need to be full investment to get to my "goal" after that point, to grow I would have to grow into a whole new spec and have to pay the associated 30 to 40 xp tax just to get in the door.

RaW I would go with option 1, but character concept wise, navigator is a funny choice from an in character perspective, just a means to get a force point. This brings me back to the original idea of a universal spec. Clearly it can be done without a universal spec. So again, I am looking for honest feedback about making a balanced, not overpowered, universal spec. Why not just do it without the universal spec... well the answer is I don't like how it fits from a character concept.

3 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

With a lightsaber that is mildly upgraded, an ataru striker is going to out DPS almost any melee build from EotE, the reason why is that the EotE or AoR is going to have to get through between 2 and 6 soak for most opponents whereas with breach 1 on the lightsaber, you can ignore up to 10 points of soak. That's huge.

If all you want is DPS, then why did you mention the ranks of parry and reflect as a desirable quality for the build?

But seriously ataru striker plus Niman disciple can get you agility 6 (start with a 4 and put 2 dedications in it), and force rating 2, that's linked 2 thanks to saber swarm, 6 dice (several of them yellow) going up against 2 purple and a black will usually give you enough success snd advantage to hit and a activate saber swarm twice, especially if you used that in combination with hawk back swoop which let's you include the 2 force dice in the pool and then choose whether the white pips count as success or advantage. That's 2 to 3 hits ignoring 10 points of soak each. Niman disciple will also get you the 3 ranks of parry and 3 ranks of reflect and 2 ranks of defensive training so you can "tank".

Also, I tend to avoid Saber throw, especially with an ataru striker because since agility is your top spec you're going to be awesome with a blaster anyway.

The Gadgeteer/marauder I was talking about had something like 16 damage base with pierce 5 (modded vibro ax), which might as well be a light saber. I think he had something like 12 soak as well.

I don't think of reflect as tanking, just a means of getting into melee without extra holes. Parry I just feel is a prerequisite for anyone with a saber.

1 hour ago, Wendelboe said:

The Gadgeteer/marauder I was talking about had something like 16 damage base with pierce 5 (modded vibro ax), which might as well be a light saber. I think he had something like 12 soak as well.

I don't think of reflect as tanking, just a means of getting into melee without extra holes. Parry I just feel is a prerequisite for anyone with a saber.

Ataru with FR 2 will still out damage that. With 1 success and 4 advantage and an ynnmodded ilum crystal is (6+1+1)*3=24 points of damage that ignores 10 points of soak, you can get 1 advantage (and one of the+1 damage) from superior and can count on another from the 2 force dice. If you wanted to do it with ataru by itself, get a double bladed lightsaber that comes with linked 1 already, saber swarm would get you to linked 2. It be a little harder to reliably pull off 4 advantage. But if you mod your crystal for more damage or craft your own lightsaber hilt (rules in endless vigil) you can still out damage your "killer 2 spec combo" with Ataru by itself even if you can only reliably activate linked 1 instead of linked 2.

Basically you're asking for a lot more out of the Fad build than you get out of your eote build, you're asking for the same plus force powers for free in terms of xp. There just is no balanced way to get all that wit hour spend more xp. You're just not going to convince anyone here that it is possible to get you "all that and a bag of chips" without spending more xp than the eote build and still have it be balanced. You're certainly not going to get any help from anyone here convincing your GM to let you use the home brew spec.

Up until now I've held the opinion that you simply want to power game not munchkin (munchkins are the worst sort of power gamer, the want to circumvent the rules to achieve stuff the rules don't allow, regular power gamers just enjoy solving the optimization problem of how to get the best build [according to their own definition of best] that the rules allow), but if you persist I might change my mind (you're getting close to that point with me). I'm a power gamer as a player, I don't consider it an insult. Munchkinism implies rule breaking, I consider it derogatory.

Until you play the Ataru striker/niman-disciple/fill in the blank combo to see how much it rocks the world of the eote build you put on a pedistal you shouldn't be trying to build your own spec. Now, I currently believe that this desire to build your own spec comes from lack of experience with FaD, I was the same way back in the day. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie at anything.

By the way it's super easy to pick up another rank of toughened using the scar talent rules on the last 2 pages of forged in battle (aor soldier book).

I guess I will go Ataru/Niman and just re-skin Niman as further Ataru mastery. At some point I will branch into Navigator or Seer. Navigator is the quicker easier path to what I am looking for, but Seer has more useful talents on the journey. Seer I can almost justify as the character "growing in understanding of the force" narratively. Navigator, not so much. A lot of game play ahead before I have to make that decision.

For what it is worth, Starting character will be an Aleena Ataru Striker. B1 A4 I2 C2 W3 P2 for stats. Coordination, Ranged (Heavy), Vigilance, Survival, Lightsaber, and Athletics all at skill rank 1. Durable, Conditioned, Parry, Jump Up, Quick Draw, and Ataru Tech for talents. Starting Equipment (went with +5 xp and +1000 credits with morality) is Heavy clothes, Comlink, a training saber, and a sporting blaster rifle (set to stun) with a sling and forward grip. Concept is along the lines of Rocket from Guardians of the Galaxy but reptile not raccoon. Crass and Arrogant. Also a "pacifist" (merciful), but has no problem dishing out a non-lethal smack down, and not letting you forget it.

As a general guide to how the trees are balanced, it you look st them you’ll find all the 2 force power trees have basically no combat skills, the 1 force power trees have very few combat skills on the fastest route to the force power, and those with the greatest level of combat skills have no force power talent.

if your proposed tree doesn’t follow that pattern it is unbalanced compared to the existing game.

2 hours ago, Darzil said:

As a general guide to how the trees are balanced, it you look st them you’ll find all the 2 force power trees have basically no combat skills, the 1 force power trees have very few combat skills on the fastest route to the force power, and those with the greatest level of combat skills have no force power talent.

if your proposed tree doesn’t follow that pattern it is unbalanced compared to the existing game.

Skills or Talents?

The Lightsaber Form specs are generally loaded with Parry and Reflect, generally having around 5 ranks total between the two talents, with five of them having either Improved Parry or Improved Reflect.

Soresu Defender is unique in that it has both of those while also having 4 ranks of Parry and 3 ranks of Reflect. Shii-Cho Warrior is on the low end with only 4 ranks of Parry, one of them buried so deep in the spec tree that it might as well not be there, but it does offer some pretty solid anti-minion combat talents and a quick method of strain recovery along with a couple of other nifty talents, so it generally balances out. Niman Disciple has 3 ranks each of Parry and Reflect, but it also doesn't have Improved Parry or Improved Reflect, instead getting a Force Rating talent that is pretty much buried in the ****-end of the spec tree. Protector is a bit of an odd duck out, in that while it doesn't offer the Lightsaber skill, it does offer a single rank of Parry and a single rank of Reflect as well as a Force Rating talent and is attached to the very combat-skilled Guardian career.

Makashi Duelist only has Lightsaber as a combat skill, and being attached to the Mystic career means that it doesn't have much else to draw upon for combat skills, and it's very much a combat spec with 5 ranks of Parry, plenty of Grit and a means of strain recovery to fuel them, and two high-end talents to really hammer your foe, either inflicting significant strain or empowering the critical injuries you inflict (and by this point, most PCs in this spec are going to be able to crit on a single advantage and have a few ranks of Vicious to bolster that crit right out the gate).

Ataru Striker being attached to Seeker is much the same, having the choices of Lightsaber from the spec itself and Ranged (Heavy) from the career, while Niman Disciple is the same case as Makashi Duelist as the Consular career has bupkiss for combat skills. Guardian as a career starts off with two combat skills, and all but one of its specs (Peacekeeper) offers up a third. With Warrior, it also starts off with two combat skills, with Shii-Cho Knight offering two more and the the other two offering only one additional combat skill.

Where we start getting into oddball cases are the specs introduced in the splat books. Arbiter has 1 rank of Parry and 2 ranks of Reflect plus a Force Rating talent, but no Improved Parry/Reflect, and offers Lightsaber as a bonus career skill. Sentry is rather unique in that it offers 2 ranks of Reflect that can be purchased very early on and has both Improved Reflect and a Force Rating talent, although both of them are at the very bottom of the spec tree and you need to buy Improved Reflect in order to get to Force Rating, but it does set a precedent for specs having both Force Rating and one of Improved Parry or Improved Reflect. And we have little idea what we're going to see in the Warrior splat book, which for all anyone outside of FFG knows may include a Juyo-based specialization that has both Improved Parry and a Force Rating talent.

I did indeed mean talents not skills.

On 11/11/2017 at 5:13 AM, Donovan Morningfire said:

I'd honestly suggest holding off on building your own specializations until you've gotten more experience with the system.

As emsquared noted, what you suggested is essentially "munchkin crap" in that it's all the 'good" talents in one easy-to-get package. A good rule of thumb for custom specializations, especially universal ones, is that if there's little to no reason mechanically speaking for a character to not take this spec, then it's far too good. What you suggested would be very difficult for a lightsaber-focused PC to pass up given what it offers.

Elias has a point in that a lot of people new to Force and Destiny come in with the misconception that the PCs are going to easily be able to emulate/replicate the kind of things we see Jedi in SW media accomplish, most notably Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka in The Clone Wars, but also Kanan and to an extent Ezra from Rebels.

Problem is that FFG designed the game to emulate Luke's progression from unaware farm boy to junior Jedi Knight as seen in the original films. So a PC that's good at using a lightsaber and good at using the Force has to make a serious XP investment in additional specializations in order to reach that point. During one of his guest stints on the Order 66 podcast, Sam Stewart (lead designer) even said that a proper Jedi Knight in this system would require hundreds of earned XP to have just the basics that we see trained Jedi in SW media possess. And part of that process is purchasing multiple specializations.

The game is also designed so that the PCs who are good at lightsabers (which are incredibly powerful weapons in this system in contrast to prior Star Wars RPGs thanks to Breach 1 being able to blow through most any targets' soak) aren't going to automatically be as good at Force usage (i.e. no chance to boost their Force Rating) with Niman Disciple being a notable exception, mostly as it lacks either Improved Parry or Improved Reflect, although sourcebooks have introduced specs that offer Improved Reflect and a Force Rating, but with Improved Reflect being more difficult to acquire than the talent is for a Shien Expert.

All that said, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the upcoming Dawn of Rebellion sourcebook will have some sort of Jedi Padawan universal spec, given how central of a role Ezra has in the Rebels series (first two seasons especially are about his growth from self-centered street rat into a Jedi Knight).

Also, a while back I did write-up a Jedi Initiate universal specialization as part of my Ways of the Force fan supplement, which was updated back in August 2016 to account for the material in Force and Destiny. It's certainly not got everything your probably wanting, but it does offer Improved Parry and a Force Rating, though getting them both is going to require a lot of XP.

You can find the v2.0 of Ways of the Force here: http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/2016/08/relearning-ways-of-force.html

I hadn't even thought of that as a possibility until you mentioned it, I'm now more curious about dawn of rebellion, thanks!