You probably want Primed Thursters in there with one of your remaining points. ASPTL Primed Kylo will be almost entirely unblockable.

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You probably want Primed Thursters in there with one of your remaining points. ASPTL Primed Kylo will be almost entirely unblockable.

I was thinking that too. At 97 points the list has a lot of wiggle room. So going to 98 should be fine. I do think we’ll start seeing a lot of bids with Kylo around similar to when Scum Nym was dominating.

The Nu's aren't guaranteed crits either.

X-G1 Nus w/ Tractor Beams, Mangler Cannons, and Advanced Slam could push crits, while getting consistent opportunities to shoot. Perhaps less damage, but I think they'd be more flexible.

29 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

The Nu's aren't guaranteed crits either.

X-G1 Nus w/ Tractor Beams, Mangler Cannons, and Advanced Slam could push crits, while getting consistent opportunities to shoot. Perhaps less damage, but I think they'd be more flexible.

The 4 dice TL's provide more opportunities for them to come naturally than TLT's, since TLT's don't do crits. I have 3 ships to have the chance of a crit to make the opponent second guess shooting Kylo then only having Kylo have the only chance to push them through.

Yeah, no I agree that TLTs aren't the right choice. A Star Wing is good, I just think an X-G1 Mangler Nu would provide more reliably crits and more flexibility when paired with Advanced SLAM and Tractor beams

Regarding Kylo's build, I think primed thrusters are a bad choice. He's already more than 'unblockable' enough with Advanced Sensors, and in fact, many times you will be happy to be blocked (because you will still get 2 actions and have one less ship shooting at Kylo).

The biggest difficulty with the list is getting Target Locks for the gunboats. The second biggest difficulty will be firing off a 2nd round of Harpoons. I was discussing this in another thread in fact. You basically *need* Long-range scanners to make the low PS gunboats effective with missiles, but then you lose some targeting flexibility and you also have trouble re-loading later on. So, for that reason, you also *need* Extra Munitions. With those upgrades, its much easier to get more missiles off.

However, you still have to worry about targeting flexibility. For that reason, I think Targeting Synchronizer becomes a 'must have'. I just flew this on VASSAL this morning:

The Nu Starkiller Generation:

SBP w/ FCS, gunner, tactician, kylo's shuttle & engine = 48

2 Nu's w/ OS-1, harpoons, EM & LRS = 26

100

I managed to fire a total of 5 harpoons that game thanks to the FCS + target synch combo on the Upsilon. And I only had to 'pause' to reload once all game (near the very end). The TIE silencer should make for an excellent Target Lock enabler as well...

3 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

Regarding Kylo's build, I think primed thrusters are a bad choice. He's already more than 'unblockable' enough with Advanced Sensors, and in fact, many times you will be happy to be blocked (because you will still get 2 actions and have one less ship shooting at Kylo).

The biggest difficulty with the list is getting Target Locks for the gunboats. The second biggest difficulty will be firing off a 2nd round of Harpoons. I was discussing this in another thread in fact. You basically *need* Long-range scanners to make the low PS gunboats effective with missiles, but then you lose some targeting flexibility and you also have trouble re-loading later on. So, for that reason, you also *need* Extra Munitions. With those upgrades, its much easier to get more missiles off.

However, you still have to worry about targeting flexibility. For that reason, I think Targeting Synchronizer becomes a 'must have'. I just flew this on VASSAL this morning:

The Nu Starkiller Generation:

SBP w/ FCS, gunner, tactician, kylo's shuttle & engine = 48

2 Nu's w/ OS-1, harpoons, EM & LRS = 26

100

I managed to fire a total of 5 harpoons that game thanks to the FCS + target synch combo on the Upsilon. And I only had to 'pause' to reload once all game (near the very end). The TIE silencer should make for an excellent Target Lock enabler as well...

I like the idea of Targetting Synchronizer, but from the games I've seen they can Slam into range fairly easily and pick up the lock with Adv Slam, fire. Then 3 speed slam away next turn, Adv Slam/Reload, and repeat.

2 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

I like the idea of Targetting Synchronizer, but from the games I've seen they can Slam into range fairly easily and pick up the lock with Adv Slam, fire. Then 3 speed slam away next turn, Adv Slam/Reload, and repeat.

That has not been my experience. Many ships will just move into range 1 to avoid the launch or dodge your arc entirely...

Plus, you haven't got a fully modified shot when doing that. Not saying its 'bad' (at least not always----its matchup dependent), but its just not really ideal.

The only problem I have with TS is when you do need to reload, it does absolutely nothing for you. The OS title only lets you shoot at something you personally have target locked, so you're only really getting that benefit on the initial joust where the star wings can focus and shoot at whatever the upsilon has TL'd, assuming the first harpoon doesn't need the rerolls. That set up in general is so telegraphed, I can't imagine it's hard to outmaneuver and completely negate your ordnance capabilities.

9 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

The only problem I have with TS is when you do need to reload, it does absolutely nothing for you. The OS title only lets you shoot at something you personally have target locked, so you're only really getting that benefit on the initial joust where the star wings can focus and shoot at whatever the upsilon has TL'd, assuming the first harpoon doesn't need the rerolls. That set up in general is so telegraphed, I can't imagine it's hard to outmaneuver and completely negate your ordnance capabilities.

How is using Target Synch even remotely 'telegraphed'? Your opponent has no idea what ship you plan to shoot in the upcoming shooting phase when both of you are still planning dials prior to having any ships in range to start shooting. And that's the absolute best time to use it (because its usually the hardest turn to set up the perfect ordnance volley). After that first turn of shooting, its often easier to get your missiles lined up because there will be all kinds of things to hamper their movement choices, but Target Synch gives you a second target option, so it increases your firing flexibility (provided you didn't SLAM of course).

When your opponent sees that you have the Upsilon as the lynchpin to your alpha strike, it's pretty easy to arc dodge. It's also about as maneuverable as a walrus on rollerskates, and staying out of its arc is laughably easy. Not only is it not pulling its weight against any ace, but by using the target lock action with it and hoping to share your lock, you are requiring that your star wings stay within close range to your space cow to even utilize that lock, and your opponent knows exactly which ship you are shooting at and can set dials and reposition accordingly. I'm not saying that FCS into an alpha is a bad choice, that part is fine. It's the fact that you are using the Upsilon as your enabler that would be the problem with that set up.

19 hours ago, Jimbawa said:

It's the fact that you are using the Upsilon as your enabler that would be the problem with that set up.

My experiences on VASSAL thus far are proving you wrong. This is not theorycraft here. I'm using it, its working and its good. I get the feeling that you have not actually tried this sort of thing...

My experiences both with and against FCS Upsilons and ordnance would prove me correct, but anecdotes are only anecdotes. I've played it a number of times and know how to play against it. Using triple aces or an imperial alpha, my usual lists, it has never been a problem and until new cards, pilots or clever uses of mechanics change the way it plays, that fact won't change.