1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

I'm sure they feel that way.

No, you can't just say "there, tyranny". You actually have to build a case for why it would be tyranny that a member state in a federal republic can't leave.

Dooku is the CIS leader, and the Geonosians are part of the CIS, and their leader is part of the CIS leadership council. At that point Geonosis had seceded from the Republic and was just minutes away from open warfare.

You also have no evidence that what the Jedi did was illegal. Never mind there being no trial for them. THAT is tyranny.

And the mob is made up of good guys who simply want to not live by the rule of law.

Yes, such organization as the Trade Federation and the Intergalactic Banking Clan would never have seats on the CIS council!

Canon Fact: "Many Galactic Senators and lawmakers lived their lives within the opulence of Coruscant's towering cities. They grew increasingly distant from their representative worlds and were more responsive to the lucre promised by corporate interests than the pleas of their constituents. In this way, the essential services to the outlying worlds of the Republic began to fail. Many worlds questioned if the increasing burden of taxation was worth such paltry representation."

So who is controlled by businesses now?

And again: PEOPLE want to leave the Republic, and have good reason to do so.

What the Geonosians did was perfectly acceptable. It may seem somewhat barbaric, but it is not the place of the CIS to judge the customs of its member states.

There was a trial, it was just a deleted scene.

There is no evidence that the CIS seeks to avoid rule of law. They simply acknowledge the fact that 1 planet shouldn't govern an entire galaxy. Look at our own world. It just doesn't work to have every single person living under the same government. The Confederacy is much looser, and better divides government into local governments that are close to the people.

It is... unclear the exact function of the Separatist Council, but keep in mind, they also have a parliament, where businesses have little power. My guess is that it was created out of desperation: They couldn't afford an army, but needed to defend themselves from the Republic. So, they offered businesses power in exchange for an army. Therefore, in a way, the Republic is to blame for corporate control in the CIS.

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There were several hundred scripts written/submitted/suggested for a live action Star Wars: Underworld live action TV series a while back. I wonder if they will go with that for their live action show on their streaming service.

It's not bad if it's the CIS doing it, got it.

I think a good analogy would be the syrian war. You have a stable government that while dictatorial maintained some democratic trapings was modern and not a theocracy. When people wanted more then mere trappings and rose up, people with money and power used it for their own purposes. So instead of it being good guys wanting freedom vs bad guys who are being tyrannical... It ended up as bad guys being tyrannical against bad guys who want to impose their rule instead and more bad guys on the outside trying to profit from the chaos funding whatever side is most open to carrying out those interests with a sith cult emerging from the mess.

Man, did this derail quick or is it me?

6 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

It is tyranny not letting planets have the right to secede. And it also sounds very similar to another sketchy government that we all know about...

Spain? Ukrain? There are so many possibilities …

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Spain? Ukrain? There are so many possibilities …

I was thinking of the Empire.

4 hours ago, TheShard said:

I think a good analogy would be the syrian war. You have a stable government that while dictatorial maintained some democratic trapings was modern and not a theocracy. When people wanted more then mere trappings and rose up, people with money and power used it for their own purposes. So instead of it being good guys wanting freedom vs bad guys who are being tyrannical... It ended up as bad guys being tyrannical against bad guys who want to impose their rule instead and more bad guys on the outside trying to profit from the chaos funding whatever side is most open to carrying out those interests with a sith cult emerging from the mess.

I can understand how its unreasonable to expect a perfect CIS, and that they have flaws. I really supported the "bad guys vs. bad guys" view until my constant wishing for the Republic to be shown as such made me support full-on CIS.

I wish it wouldn't be constantly highlighting the flaws of the CIS, yet ignoring when they're good guys. Take Umbara, for example. The Umbarans clearly hated the Republic, (for some unknown but presumably valid reason) and that this would be a case where the CIS is in the right. Yet it was just ignored that the Republic was invading them, and nobody ever thought about it.

So there's a new trilogy in the works i hear...?

3 hours ago, TheShard said:

So there's a new trilogy in the works i hear...?

Yes. That, too.

8 hours ago, 2P51 said:

No one is stopping you from posting about the new trilogy.

Given we know Count Dooku coopted the Separatist cause on behalf of his "Master" Darth Sidious what was intended to be a legitimate secession because the Republic was failing.

Given the Jedi were blind, deaf and dumb to the obvious machinations of the Sith it would be nice to see this from the Separatist point of view as well as show just how badly the Corporation's mishandled the situation to their benefit!

After all the CIS fielded droids to fight most of the war IF you take what we've learned so far as the truth.

Now having them play both sides only to be assassinated to hide that fact, would that be interesting to you?

I think the CIS is a perfect example of people who want freedom being used by corporations who are after megaprofit above all else.

I really wanted to say that they are right, until seeing them enslave or eradicate populations that were inconvenient or not wholly supportive of the Separatist cause, or assassinate leaders of planets that wanted to stay neutral (Mandalore), or invade neutral planets and strip them of their resources to feed the CIS war machine.

Yeah, the Republic is corrupt and rotten. And seeing that firsthand is *why* Anakin became Vader, because that's what happens when a true believer is shown the truth and realizes how much they were betrayed by what they believe in.

But the CIS is *at least* as bad in every area, and worse in some.

The Clone War is like the Eastern Front of WW2. There is no "good" side, there's only varying degrees of bad. Which is probably part of the reason that I liked it so much. Now if only we got to see more of the living CIS troops fighting, rather than just the idiot droids. Those RogerRoger droids are so cringeworthy it sometimes makes watching the series painful.

26 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Guess you don't have anything interesting to say.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/disney-unveils-massive-plan-for-star-wars-franchise-after-the-last-jedi/news-story/bed7297a1f1ad8993540cd8005d5845e

WHAT???? There's an original trilogy? What did I miss?

No, no, no, no!

THIS is exactly what I did NOT want to see from Disney! Star Wars was cool because there were a limited amount of films that did a pretty good job of creating and hinting at a diverse galaxy. I liked that. What I am getting now is a constant stream of bombardment not just about Star Wars, but about STAR WARS, and the constant level of media stimulation is wearing me out. I greatly enjoy SW, don't get me wrong. I just don't want to be hammered with constant attention about something, even something I like.

One of the things going for the PT, and TFA before any films came out, was the fact that there was only a limited amount of information, leaving fans free to speculate, create novels and fan-fics, and just enjoy it.

I feel that we're losing all that creativity under Disney. It has lost the 'close' feeling that initially brought me in as a child. It feels so industrial now, and as much as I like Star Wars, it puts me off.

Eh.

I didn't see TFA. Don't feel the need, since I've seen A New Hope a few thousand times. And I've yet to hear anything good about it from someone whose opinion I value. I won't be seeing TLJ, either, most likely. Depends on what I hear about it from a few people that I know are going to see it simply because it's a Star Wars movie. If it's another carbon copy, or it shoehorns a character in because diversity (even though their sexual orientation for example has NOTHING to do with their character), or it just plain isn't very good, I won't bother.

I loved Rogue One. Saw it in theaters 3 times, then once or twice on Teh Interwebz, then bought it as soon as it came out on DVD. I've seen valid criticisms of it on here, and other places, and I won't say that it's some super-cereal, very philosophical, incredibly deep movie. It's enjoyable, and it lived up to the franchise name. The former is what I look for in a movie, and the latter is important if you're going to build on something that's already there. All the Terminator movies after Judgement Day FAILED in this regard, IMO, especially Genesys.

Rogue One is what I'd like to see more of from Star Wars. I don't recall any characters that are SJW-approved simply to appease a small segment of the possible audience. It wasn't Episode 4, or 5, or 6, redone and wearing a 'new' skin. Nor was it the same story/movie told/shown from a different perspective. Show me a story that has few to no Jedi in it. No Skywalkers, no Solos, no Chewbacca. Let's see what the Empire is doing in the Sullust or Shili systems. Show me what Ahsoka Tano has been up to since the Clone War ended (He11, if Ahsoka is in it, and they stay true to the character, I'd probably go see it eight times in the theater, and definitely buy the DVD). Let's see Hutt space and the seedy underbelly of galactic civilization, or how the Empire is 'handling' the Zygerrians. Or a movie about Thrawn's activities during the Galctic Civil War. Or spend some more time showing the rise of the Empire and Vader hunting down and destroying the Jedi, like in the comics.

But please, Sweet Mother of All that is Evil and Corrupt, NO MORE SKYWALKERS, or reskinning existing movies.

19 minutes ago, the mercenary said:

or it shoehorns a character in because diversity (even though their sexual orientation for example has NOTHING to do with their character)

Like how Empire shoehorned in a character played by a black man!

Well, contrary to popular belief, TFA was not a "reskin" of ANH. Yes, it had a similar feel, but was not a ripoff, or "rehash" of the Original movie. It is its own story, with its own characters and plot. Yes, it has a similar feel as the original movies, but this was intentional to recapture the feeling of Star Wars that many fans felt were lacking in the Prequels. TLJ promises to be very different and original, definitely not a "rehash" of ESB.

How would you react if they retcon the end of Rogue One revealing Jyn & Cassian survived because what you saw was Jyn dreaming after both passed out in that elevator?

Since it's a reinforced Imperial Facility a safety override sent the elevator into the subterranean part of the facility protected from the Death Star blast should be reasonable and with Vader chasing the Tantive IV and Tarkin thoroughly checking out his new toy it wouldn't stretch much that they escape using an Imperial shuttle during the subsequent chaos going on outside.

How would you feel if Jyn turns up in that new trilogy?

13 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Like how Empire shoehorned in a character played by a black man!

Uh, no. Lando was just Lando. There was no big deal made of him being black. He wasn't shoehorned in. There was no previous books, comics, movies, etc, where he was anything other than a black man, and then suddenly BAM, now he's the Equal Opportunity hire. Unlike....ugh, which comic book movie was it? It was a hero type character, which was reason enough not to see it. Not Green Lantern, though it was something similar. Something that surprises me the comic is still around, and even more surprising that a movie was made. Ah well, it's not important.

I wish I could remember the movie that makes me think of this kind of thing. There's been a few where a character was, for example, gay just because GAY. It had nothing to do with the story, it didn't advance the plot, nothing. It was just because reasons. If some certain aspect of a character is only there for the sake of political correctness, and it doesn't do anything for the plot, then what's the point of throwing it in there?

The Boondock Saints did an excellent job with Agent Smecker being gay. He played it up, he surprised the audience when he called other gay men derogatory names, and he dressed in drag to go to Papa Joe's house and save the McManus brothers from the trap that the mob had laid for them. And Willem DaFoe did an excellent job in the role.

8 minutes ago, the mercenary said:

Uh, no. Lando was just Lando. There was no big deal made of him being black. He wasn't shoehorned in. There was no previous books, comics, movies, etc, where he was anything other than a black man, and then suddenly BAM, now he's the Equal Opportunity hire.

Eh, all stories are constructed. There's nothing natural about including or not including a character who's black or gay or whatever. But excluding them is just as much a political act as including them is. No character ever "just happens" to be something. These are all the result of choices, conscious or unconscious, by the creators.

So being shoehorned in seems like an empty complaint to me.