Three of us were playing yesterday because one of my friends wanted to try the game out. Base game board and mythos, with all the equipment, monsters, etc from kingsport and innsmouth as well.

We draw Atlach-Nacha for the GOO. I think, "...Crap"

First turn, one of my friends jumps in the one open gate, i kill some monsters, and the new guy has a random encounter.

Second turn, I jump into the second gate and a third opens where player 3 is standing. Then the mythos opens in the same spot as the one that sucked player 3 in (and since A-N makes all gates gate bursts, no monster surge)

Third turn, Player 1 comes out and closes, and the mythos fails to open on the gate I was in.

Fourth turn, me and player 3 come out and close.

One game, four turns.

I have been so close to a third or fourth turn win a few times, but it never seems to fall into place. Nice.

rowanalpha said:

Not that it has any effect on your game, but doesn't the 'no monster surge' clause only apply when an actual gate burst happens (opens on an elder sign)?

I'm pretty sure you still get a surge in that situation

To my understanding of Gate Bursts, Joseph is correct. The gate only bursts if it is sealed. Otherwise, it is treated as a normal gate. I will wait for one of the forum guardians to come up with a rules quote to that effect should you require it, as I am too lazy.

I have, however, had at least one shorter game, that ended on the second turn quite a bit worse than yours did. Something about Deep Ones Rising, Innsmouth Gates, and Zhar working his magic.

Well, I'm not one of the Forum-guardians but I've found the rule. From the Dunwich Horror Rulebook, pag. 6:

"Certain mythos cards have their gate location colored red. These indicate gate bursts. A gate burst works the same as a normal mythos card, unless the
listed gate location has an elder sign token on it, in which case the gate bursts open, causing the elder sign token at that location to be removed from the board"

So, no seal implies you have to treat the Mythos card as a normal one, thus Gate already open -> Monster surge.

Just rember that every time you draw a Gate burst card, you have to move all flying monsters regardless of their dimensional symbol

Julia said:

Yeah, the "unless" clause makes it definite. Hrm... Do flying monsters move every turn with Atlach? I still haven't played against Atlach... It's been what? About two years now?

Avi_dreader said:

I'd say that yes, they move every round. This should make your Creature in the clouds as deadly as never before (more deadly probably than with Hastur as AO). No Blights triggered, but there's the risk that the game lasts only 10 rounds...

Julia said:

::Shudder:: I hate Atlach...

Note that flying monsters move regardless of whether or not the burst card actually bursts a seal.

Updated FAQ:

If Atlach-Nacha is the GOO, does every mythos card with a gate cause the flying monsters to move?
Yes.

A better question would be: if Atlach-Nacha is the AO, do only Mythos cards with gates count as gate bursts, or do "A Gate and Monster appears" encounter count as well? You couldn't be expected to move flying monsters in response to an Arkham Encounters card when they wouldn't be moved normally, so that indicates "no." But I don't remember what other people had to say on the matter.

rowanalpha said:

My question is about turn 2: Did player #3 get "a gate and a monster appears" encounter? I assume so, since pre-game Mythos opened gate #1, which was entered on turn 1, you entered the gate Mythos on turn 1 opened. If that was the case, player #3 doesn't come out until turn 5:

Turn 2: a gate and a monster appears (delayed)

Turn 3: stand up, still in first OW area

Turn 4: move to 2nd OW area

Turn 5: return to arkham

Maybe player #3 got an encounter that returned him to Arkham (or was Mark Harrigan), but otherwise sounds like he came back a turn too soon.

Tibs said:

Nevermind

Since the gate opened in the Arkham encounters, he had an other world encounter, thus was not delayed. If it had been the mythos, he would have been delayed so to have 2 other world encounters. That's my understanding of how things work anyway.

Re: Gate Bursts: As far as monster surges go, the rules state that gate bursts don't cause monster surges, meaning gate bursts on open gates do nothing (except move flying monsters). If there was an elder sign in a space, the gate would be opening on an empty space and could not cause a monster surge anyway.

"If an investigator is drawn through a gate
that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate
appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is
delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in
the Mythos Phase." (p. 9)

As for gate bursts, wacky wording strikes again IMO. Gate Bursts are 100% normal Mythos cards (add doomer if no gate at the location, surge if hits already open gate, etc.), except when it is drawn on a sealed location, then it does its special thing.

"A gate
burst works the same as a normal
mythos card, unless the
listed gate location has an elder
sign token on it, in which case
the gate bursts open, causing the elder sign token at that
location to be removed from the board. A gate then
opens at that location and a monster appears there as
usual. However, a doom token is not placed on the
Ancient One’s doom track when a seal is burst open by
a gate burst. Also, this does not cause a monster surge." (p. 6, DH rules)

emphasis mine

The "this" in the last sentence refers to the act of gate bursting (at least as far as my grammar/semantics/whatnot sense tells me).

KH rules state the gate burst thing better I think:

"When that
happens, the gate bursts open, causing the elder sign token
to be removed from the board. A gate then opens at that
location and a monster appears there as usual, but no doom
token is added to the Ancient One’s doom track, nor does
this cause a monster surge." (p. 8, KH rules)

Everything relating to the act of the gate burst is clumped together.

rowanalpha said:

Dam didn't address this directly, but if a new gate opens on you, you're always delayed. If it opens on you during the Arkham Encounters phase, not only do you still have to wait until the Other World phase to have your Other World encounter, but you can expect to get three OW encounters before you return instead of the regular two.

Tibs said:

It though there was a clarification in one of the FAQs about that. Whatever. It was still funny even if we played it wrong.

Regarding the gate bursts, my point was that, since there would be no way for a surge to happen when there isn't already a gate in the location (i.e. there's a seal) the statement "Also, this does not cause a monster surge." would be redundant if it only applied to sealed locations.

rowanalpha said:

That was my point about wacky wording, that last bit doesn't need to be there, you're not the first and probably won't be the last poster getting thrown a curveball by it. KH rules sorted the wording order better, though still left the monster surge bit in there, redundant as it may be.

I think its intended though, as balance. It the gate burst opens on a seal, its worse than a normal gate. If it opens on an already there gate its better. That way, gate bursts are situationally better or worse for the investigators rather than straight out worse.

Comparably, the double doom token Mythos cards are generally worse for the investigators, but it releases no monsters and can't surge and if there's only one gate left to close before winning its better. Generally worse but better in some situations.

It is either a case of poor wording or useless rules text. My feeling, though, is its poor wording rather than trying to rule out a situation that can't happen.

Is there any clarification about it in the FAQs?

I think the KH wording makes it clear(er) that the no doom token and no monster surge are related to the gate burst happening. Also, if the gate bursts didn't cause a monster surge when they would open a gate at an already open location, then the "gate bursts are like normal Mythos" wouldn't be true.

"A gate burst works the same as
a normal Mythos card in all cases except when the listed
gate location has an elder sign token on it." (p. 8, KH rules)

"In all cases except" seems pretty clear to me.

With the exception of the removal of a seal not adding a doom token, they are straight-out worse.

Updated FAQ:

Q: If a gate burst occurs at a location which already
has an open gate is there a monster surge?
A: Yes.

I assume that's a more recent one than the FAQ on the support page (that or I missed the ruling when I was looking through)

Can I get the link for that if its posted anywhere? (not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read the most recent updates)

Also, any idea why the rule does mention monster surges?

It is the legendary 2nd edition FAQ that has not seen the light of day, as it is still being finalized. There are no finalized versions of it anywhere; I'm only a proofreader. I'd say that it will be coming up soon, but now that there's a new expansion on the horizon, who knows what's up.

The only answer I have to why it's mentioned in the rules is to see what Dam had to say about it: it was just poor choice of words.

Fair enough.

I hope the proof reading is close to done. If Lurker in the Threshold comes out before you release it, you'll have a whole slew of stuff to add. ;p

That's the thing. The project behind this FAQ was first declared February last year, and the only proof-readable copy was available in October. It's been very, very slow in its development. I would not count on it being out before Lurker.