Hi Folks! Hope all is well .

I've been toying with some new builds with the new ships I just got, and I've been wondering if the following is legal.

Is this ok? If so, how does it work with "... the original revealed maneuver ."? Does this "original" become what you choose from Stay on Target? I can't seem to get this one figured out...thanks for your help my friends, and God bless .

12 minutes ago, SlaveofChrist said:

Does this "original" become what you choose from Stay on Target?

Quite so. Every time you change your maneuver with an effect, any other effects consider that change to be what was originally revealed. The "Heragator" combo of Hera pilot and Navigator crew relies on this.

So with Dalan, the process would be:

1. Reveal 2-straight (for example).
2. Use Stay on Target to rotate to a 2-bank.
3. Dalan now considers that 2-bank to be the revealed maneuver, so he can use his ability to treat it as a Tallon Roll.

I don't know if they would work together. Dalan's ability would stress you before you got to SOT. SOT would stress you before Dalan's ability would kick in.

3 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Quite so. Every time you change your maneuver with an effect, any other effects consider that change to be what was originally revealed. The "Heragator" combo of Hera pilot and Navigator crew relies on this.

So with Dalan, the process would be:

1. Reveal 2-straight (for example).
2. Use Stay on Target to rotate to a 2-bank.
3. Dalan now considers that 2-bank to be the revealed maneuver, so he can use his ability to treat it as a Tallon Roll.

Excellent! Makes sense . Thanks DR4CO!

1 minute ago, Stoneface said:

I don't know if they would work together. Dalan's ability would stress you before you got to SOT. SOT would stress you before Dalan's ability would kick in.

Not at all. Neither Dalan or SOT stress you directly, they just have you perform a red maneuver that stresses you in the "Check Pilot Stress", which is long after you've revealed the dial and resolved both of these effects.

2 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Not at all. Neither Dalan or SOT stress you directly, they just have you perform a red maneuver that stresses you in the "Check Pilot Stress", which is long after you've revealed the dial and resolved both of these effects.

So, one stress or two?

4 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

So, one stress or two?

One. You're just performing an ordinary red maneuver.

5 hours ago, DR4CO said:

One. You're just performing an ordinary red maneuver.

This^ the pilot card already references s loops which are red with no double stress.

8 hours ago, Stoneface said:

So, one stress or two?

As others have said, just one. SoT changes the maneuver to red, Dalan's ability let's him change any non-straight to a red Talon Roll but a maneuver can't be double-red, if it's already red it's still just red so it gives him a stress after doing the maneuver just like any other standard red.

14 hours ago, Stoneface said:

So, one stress or two?

Treat the sandwich as a sandwich.

19 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Not at all. Neither Dalan or SOT stress you directly, they just have you perform a red maneuver that stresses you in the "Check Pilot Stress", which is long after you've revealed the dial and resolved both of these effects.

Hire this man!

6 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Treat the sandwich as a sandwich.

I wrote that in January. I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday!

13 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I wrote that in January. I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday!

No shade. I just thought it was funny that I thought "this seems familiar," and went looking for it, only to discover it had been you both times.

12 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

No shade. I just thought it was funny that I thought "this seems familiar," and went looking for it, only to discover it had been you both times.

Deja vu all over again.

Yogi Barrera

On 11/9/2017 at 0:56 PM, digitalbusker said:

Treat the sandwich as a sandwich.

On 11/9/2017 at 7:40 PM, Stoneface said:

I wrote that in January. I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday!

I'm stealing this line.

1 minute ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I'm stealing this line.

You're welcome to it. The line is free but the cost to get to use it is very high.

I think people are glossing over "original" revealed maneuver. Regardless of what is on the dial after other abilities are applied, Dalan works on the maneuver that was originally revealed, regardless of what is currently shown on the dial due to abilities like Stay on Target or Navigator.

9 hours ago, kraedin said:

I think people are glossing over "original" revealed maneuver. Regardless of what is on the dial after other abilities are applied, Dalan works on the maneuver that was originally revealed, regardless of what is currently shown on the dial due to abilities like Stay on Target or Navigator.

simultaneous effects, owner can choose order. as far as the ability is concerned the SoT choice is the revealed maneuver. The only stipulation is that it's not a straight or u turn

9 hours ago, kraedin said:

I think people are glossing over "original" revealed maneuver. Regardless of what is on the dial after other abilities are applied, Dalan works on the maneuver that was originally revealed, regardless of what is currently shown on the dial due to abilities like Stay on Target or Navigator.

This is just not correct, per the FAQ of the interaction with Imp Boba Fett/Hera Pilot and Navigator - when you change a revealed manoeuvre, the new manouevre counts as having been revealed to trigger the next thing in the chain. This applies to Dalan/SoT just as much as anyone else.

(Personally I don't think it SHOULD work that way, but by word of devs, it does).

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

This is just not correct, per the FAQ of the interaction with Imp Boba Fett/Hera Pilot and Navigator - when you change a revealed manoeuvre, the new manouevre counts as having been revealed to trigger the next thing in the chain. This applies to Dalan/SoT just as much as anyone else.

(Personally I don't think it SHOULD work that way, but by word of devs, it does).

The FAQ doesn't say the maneuver is revealed again. Navigator, Hera, and Boba don't specifically interact with the revealed maneuver, they just change whatever is on the dial. If using Stay on Target counted as "revealing" a maneuver, you'd end up with bizarre infinite loops with cards like Adaptive Ailerons or Advanced Sensors.

Navigator: " When you reveal a maneuver , you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing.

You cannot rotate to a red maneuver if you have any stress tokens."

Boba: " When you reveal a bank maneuver ( or ), you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed."

Hera: " When you reveal a green or red maneuver , you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty."

Pull the other one it's got bells on. Bobagator: you reveal a bank, you can either activate Navigator first, and rotate your dial to another bank of the same speed - which is then counted as being revealed, and can be flipped to the other bearing - or vice versa.

Heragator, you reveal a 1 straight, you rotate to a 3 straight with Hera, then a 3 turn with Navigator.

In both, cases, the second rotation only works if the first rotation offers a new reveal trigger - otherwise Bobagator would only offer you, off a revealed 1 left bank, a 1 right bank, or a 1, 2, or 3 left bank, and so on. You couldn't get the 2 or 3 right, because the initial trigger was a 1 left, and you could then only change its speed OR bearing, not both.

It doesn't outright state that the move is revealed again, btu it doesn't WORK the way it's FAQed to work UNLESS the manoeuvre is revealed again.

(which is, as noted, why I think it ought not to work the way it does, but it DOES work that way).

Looking at Dalan through the same lens, reveal a 1 bank, use SoT to rotate it to a 1 turn, then use Dalan on the revealed 1 turn to make it a 1 troll. Or use Dalan to make it a 1 bank troll, then use SoT, but there's no reason you'd ever do it in this order.

Here's how I think it works.

"When you reveal a bank maneuver (<left bank> or <right bank> ), you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed."

"When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing."

You reveal a 1 left bank maneuver. This satisfies the conditions for using both Boba ("reveal a bank maneuver") and Navigator ("reveal a maneuver").

As the player controlling both effects, you can choose to resolve these effects in any order.

The two effects you have to resolve are " you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed" and "you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing".

You decide to resolve Boba Fett first, so you rotate your dial from a 1 left bank to a 1 right bank. Now that Boba is resolved, you resolve Navigator. Your dial is currently showing a 1 left bank, and Navigator's effect is "you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing", so you rotate your dial to a 3 left bank.

Neither Boba Fett or Navigator state that they perform their effect on the reveled maneuver, they just perform operations on your dial.

All of this is sort of pointless for Dalan, though; even if you reveal your dial 20 times this turn, it's not going to change what you "originally" revealed.

But you didn't reveal a 1 right bank, you revealed a 1 left bank, unless the maneouvre you revealed changed; in which case, Dalan should work the same way on the manoeuvre you rotated to with SoT. It's literally the exact same combination of wordings.

Stay on Target:" When you reveal a maneuver , you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed.

Treat that maneuver as a red maneuver."

Dalan: "If you are not stressed, when you reveal a turn, bank, or Segnor's Loop maneuver , you may instead treat it as a red Tallon Roll maneuver of the same direction (left or right) using the template of the original revealed maneuver."

Navigator: " When you reveal a maneuver , you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing.

You cannot rotate to a red maneuver if you have any stress tokens."

Boba: " When you reveal a bank maneuver ( or ), you may rotate your dial to the other bank maneuver of the same speed."

Hera: " When you reveal a green or red maneuver , you may rotate your dial to another maneuver of the same difficulty."

I'm not seeing the distinction you're seeing between Boba/Heragator, which explicitly does work per FAQ, and Dalan/SoT which you claim doesn't because...?

--

If the manoeuvre you 'originally' revealed mattered, then it would matter to Boba/Heragator too, but it doesn't matter for them, so it shouldn't matter for Dalan.

The original maneuver matters for Dalan because he uses the " the template of the original revealed maneuver."

... and SoT changes the original revealed manoeuvre, or Hera/Bobagator wouldn't work. There's precedent on my side, not on yours.

It needs FAQ either way though.