The Gunboat opensup a lot of ordinance options for the Imperial fleet, but I think that cannons are going to see an awful lot more play. Here's the worst combo I could think of:

Captain Jonus (22)
Adaptability

Nu Squadron Pilots x 3 (26)
HLC
XG-1 Assaut Configuration

You get three "deadeye'd" 4-die shots, with Jonus rerolls and focus. Every ship (but particularly the gunboats) is outside what I consider the alpha-strike range - 7 hull behind 2 agility and focus can't be killed by two missile shots, so the chances are high that all your ships will get off numerous shots.

Something really nice about Slam on the gunboats in tournaments is that they're great at preserving MoV, since they can just run away when they're at 1/2 hull.

I get the feeling that three of the PS4s with linked batteries and crack shot will be better overall, but you lose a whole ship out of the build.

Looks good.

I agree you lose a ship, but Jonus doesn't really do anything compared to the Linked Battery Rho Squadron - as a 2-dice attack ship he's not going to put much damage down, and he does pin your Nu gunboats into a range 1 bubble compared to the 'free-roaming' Rhos; yes, you lose a ship but it's not a ship I need to kill first to meaningfully drop the firepower relative to three smaller gunboats, and if he's the last ship left his PS is too low and his dial too bad to be much of a dogfighter.

Certainly the extra two-to-three damage three Crack Shot cards should inflict in the opening salvo is probably as much as I'd hope for from Jonus all game, and it means the 'last guy standing' still has a fighting chance.

Also, Rho Squadron Veterans with XG-1 Assault Configuration, Heavy Laser Cannons, Crack Shot and Linked Batteries are 32 points - leaving 4 points to spend on tactical upgrades - an Ion Pulse Missile/Guidance Chips combination or a couple of Seismic Torpedoes, for example, can give you much better options for engaging on your terms.

If harpoons and saturation salvo wern't a thing i'd agree.

But jonus the jonus r1 limit just will get you creamed after people see it.

2 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

If harpoons and saturation salvo wern't a thing i'd agree.

But jonus the jonus r1 limit just will get you creamed after people see it.

Saturation Salvo is a thing?

1 minute ago, Hannes Solo said:

Saturation Salvo is a thing?

Most OP card yet........

6 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

Saturation Salvo is a thing?

Not overly, but it'll still see play for beter or worse while you see this and rebel jank/ fsr on the table.

Is the 2 points worth the 3-4 auto damage a round on a lists like this? It's not like it makes the cruise missile attached worthless if you then find a 2 ship..........

How is that 3-4 Auto damage a round?

Anyway I would go full Gunboat

2x NU (18P)
XG1(1) HLC(7), LRS (0)
26 x 2 = 52 Points

2x NU (18P)
XG1(1) MC(4) TB/JB(1), LRS (0)
24 x 2 = 48 Points

17 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

How is that 3-4 Auto damage a round?

Anyway I would go full Gunboat

2x NU (18P)
XG1(1) HLC(7), LRS (0)
26 x 2 = 52 Points

2x NU (18P)
XG1(1) MC(4) TB/JB(1), LRS (0)
24 x 2 = 48 Points

My bad, you still need to roll. But everything still has to stay at range 1 in those list so everything gets affected, plus the oppertunity for other abilities like josjerro or crit seekers

47 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

My bad, you still need to roll. But everything still has to stay at range 1 in those list so everything gets affected, plus the oppertunity for other abilities like josjerro or crit seekers

Well not everything stays in range 1. Everything needs to stay in range one to the TIE Bomber. Jonus is PS6 (7 with adapt.) and you need to get a TL on him. You probably weill need 4 points for the CM and the SadSalv and aditionaly a LRS or an 8+ PS to get that TL right. And all that for statistically 2 damage spread amongst different ships...
Alternatively you could take the CM, DE and a GC zoom into the action, focus and choose one target without restriction of TL. 5Red + Focus + GC against 2Green is an expected damage of 3.8

The Sad Salvo isn't a thing cause using your ordnance proper is a better option.

You are quite right that this would present one **** of an initial joust. But then, those dials leave you high and dry. Sure you can SLAM around, but then you're losing a turn of shooting, and your opponent might be able to keep that outmaneuvering going. I firmly believe you somehow need to make sure that the Guboat will be able to shoot following a SLAMmed turn. I prefer the OS-1 title, but that's a matter of personal preference.

17 hours ago, Astech said:

Every ship (but particularly the gunboats) is outside what I consider the alpha-strike range - 7 hull behind 2 agility and focus can't be killed by two missile shots, so the chances are high that all your ships will get off numerous shots.

So with my imperial alpha strike list, with 3 harpoons:

I‘d shoot Jonus twice, most likely killing him and dealing 3 extra damage to all gunboats. The 3rd harpoon goes on a gunboat, dealing very likely 2-3 damage, leaving it at half hull.

If you really run away after then my alpha essentially took out 2 ships. I don‘t think you‘ll have much fun against Vader, QD and Inquisitor in the following game

30 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

So with my imperial alpha strike list, with 3 harpoons:

I‘d shoot Jonus twice, most likely killing him and dealing 3 extra damage to all gunboats. The 3rd harpoon goes on a gunboat, dealing very likely 2-3 damage, leaving it at half hull.

If you really run away after then my alpha essentially took out 2 ships. I don‘t think you‘ll have much fun against Vader, QD and Inquisitor in the following game

The only question is - how much damage 3 HLC shots can do in return? It may end up being enough to kill Vader.

It's fun (imo...) to think it through with numbers. Also turns out that I was pretty wrong in underestimating the HLC alphastrike by @Astech!

• My shots:
  • QD Harpoon, 87% to deal 2+ damage against a focused 2agility ship
  • Vader Harpoon, 85% to deal 3+ damage against unfocused 2agility
    • so now chances are pretty good to have jonus killed, or a gunboat to be almost dead
  • Inq Harpoon, 87% to deal 2+ damage against a focused 2agility ship (new target if first one is dead)
    • Total: -1 Jonus, 2-4 damage on a gunboat (3-5 remaining)
• Return shots, assuming Jonus lives
  • 2 HLC with focus and Jonus with 2 dice to expect
  • if against QD (2green): 95% to deal 2+ damage, 73% of 3+ damage, so she would possibly go down against 2 HLCs and definitely lose all shields.
  • if against Inq (3green, evade): will also go down against 2 HLCs (86% for 2+ damage), but can survive
  • if against Vader (3green, maybe a focus): should survive 2+Jonus (63% of 2+ damage, 86% if Vader has no focus)
• Return shots, assuming Jonus died
  • generally I have 2 HLC with focus and possibly 1 HLC without to expect
  • if against QD (2green): 76% of 2+ damage, so she would possibly go down against 3 HLCs.
  • if against Inq (3green, evade): will also go down against 3 HLCs (just 64% for 2+ damage, but 3 shots so just one has to succeed on those 64% chance)
  • if against Vader (3green, maybe a focus): probably dies

So it turns out that we trade a ship in the beginning. Inq is his safest bet, while I'm actually better off to target a gunboat, maybe with all 3 missiles even!

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's fun (imo...) to think it through with numbers. Also turns out that I was pretty wrong in underestimating the HLC alphastrike by @Astech!

So it turns out that we trade a ship in the beginning. Inq is his safest bet, while I'm actually better off to target a gunboat, maybe with all 3 missiles even!

It's also very unlikely that you'll get the necessary crits on the second two shots in order to trigger the harpooned! condition, as Vader is the only one with a crit ability, so perhaps one splash damage tops.

I'd personally try to draw fire onto Jonus because, as you said, the Gunboats don't really need Jonus to do the damage. Additionally, this all assumes you can get off your three missile shots. It's conceivable I could SLAM one of the gunboats into a blocking position, thus denying your Alpha completely, or thread my hyper-maneuverable gunboats through the rocks, encouraging you to fire off the missiles one by one or else get picked apart by individual shots.

Naturally, the PS and spike damage of Vader, QD and the Inquisitor is a hard counter to a lower PS alpha strike, but they have a lot of hard matchups because of it such as BB-8 Poe (with title) and actual arc-dodgers. I think the staying power of 3 durable HLC carriers and Jonus support makes up for the PS shortfall.

Against 3 Rho squadron HLCs, the alpha strike will win, hands down, so having that extra ship on the table can be very useful.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

So it turns out that we trade a ship in the beginning. Inq is his safest bet, while I'm actually better off to target a gunboat, maybe with all 3 missiles even!

That was my expectation as well. From my experience low-PS alpha strike should be able to handle a loss of 1 ship before it can shoot and still deliver a meaningful strike. This list does satisfy the criteria (although I personally still prefer an ordnance approach with a similar result)

On 11/9/2017 at 4:06 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks good.

I agree you lose a ship, but Jonus doesn't really do anything compared to the Linked Battery Rho Squadron - as a 2-dice attack ship he's not going to put much damage down, and he does pin your Nu gunboats into a range 1 bubble compared to the 'free-roaming' Rhos; yes, you lose a ship but it's not a ship I need to kill first to meaningfully drop the firepower relative to three smaller gunboats, and if he's the last ship left his PS is too low and his dial too bad to be much of a dogfighter.

Certainly the extra two-to-three damage three Crack Shot cards should inflict in the opening salvo is probably as much as I'd hope for from Jonus all game, and it means the 'last guy standing' still has a fighting chance.

Also, Rho Squadron Veterans with XG-1 Assault Configuration, Heavy Laser Cannons, Crack Shot and Linked Batteries are 32 points - leaving 4 points to spend on tactical upgrades - an Ion Pulse Missile/Guidance Chips combination or a couple of Seismic Torpedoes, for example, can give you much better options for engaging on your terms.

I've been thinking about this squad for a few weeks now. I think its main weakness is losing a ship to a higher PS alpha in the initial joust. Any ideas on what to do about that? I haven't figured put anything good myself.

17 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I've been thinking about this squad for a few weeks now. I think its main weakness is losing a ship to a higher PS alpha in the initial joust. Any ideas on what to do about that? I haven't figured put anything good myself.

Pray to the match making Gods you do not face one.

This is my new favorite Alpha strike list:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

"Pure Sabacc" (22)
Adaptability (0)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Total: 100

Yeah old school Bombers, but I think the PS 5 Alpha strike will be pretty solid. Of course they will lose out to ace alphas, but they out PS pretty much all of the generic alpha builds except for the Black Sun Aces. Sabacc is there to distract and also add to the alpha.

I also like this variant on paper-

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Jamming Beam (1)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Jamming Beam (1)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Total: 100

Manglers help the Harpoons go off.

I've been waiting on the Gamma Vet alpha for a while now. It's never quite been good enough.

I wonder about this version, it's less alpha, but still a nasty punch:

Gamma Vet, Crack Shot, Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame = 24 points × 4

You've got 4 points left to buy some Seismics or something else.

My main issue with all or nothings squads like quad Bombers, TLT, etc. is the fact that you give your opponent as easy target priority. Basically they have to shoot whatever ship is the best available target. With a squad that incorporates a cheaper ace or splits up the ships, its kind of harder for them to figure out what to shoot at.

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I've been waiting on the Gamma Vet alpha for a while now. It's never quite been good enough.

I wonder about this version, it's less alpha, but still a nasty punch:

Gamma Vet, Crack Shot, Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame = 24 points × 4

You've got 4 points left to buy some Seismics or something else.

I think the main issue here is the inability to get focus for rockets after KTurn/barrel roll. Replacing one of those with OpSpec shuttle may be a better option.