22 minutes ago, Riley298 said:

I understand what you mean but I'm thinking ahead I can tell I'm not the only 1 as comments have already mentioned infinite being phased out ....for now I can carry on as normal only time will tell

I hope you do stick around I apologize my comment wasnt directed at you specifically. I hope everyone sticks around and enjoy the game.

My hope is this game becomes the #1 game ever

2 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

For now. Give it 2 or 3 years and you'll see Infinite all but disappear.

This is the issue with a rapidly advancing CCG game. You have to make it so that new players can compete at a reasonable level. You have to kill production of old versions as you produce new versions. The retiring of cards allows you to phase out poor design choices, or introduce new ideas/combos that aren't overpowered because of old cards. Having EVERYTHING available typically creates super powered combos that just can't be continually designed around. It's healthy for the game...but sucks for the players.

Something that is healthy for the game is healthy for players of the game. Having the game crumble and fold because it isn't pruned has a much more substantial effect on players investment has a much more substantial effect then rotation.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. CCG model games offer consistent rapid expansion and new content, with that benefit comes the problem of how to deal with constant rapid growth. You have to do something or the game will die in due time.

3 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Something that is healthy for the game is healthy for players of the game. Having the game crumble and fold because it isn't pruned has a much more substantial effect on players investment has a much more substantial effect then rotation.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. CCG model games offer consistent rapid expansion and new content, with that benefit comes the problem of how to deal with constant rapid growth. You have to do something or the game will die in due time.

Agreed.

True story: I have some raspberry bushes growing in my backyard. I only planted one for fun, but they took over like weeds. What’s funny is that they’re on a two year cycle, only actually producing berries every other year. If I just let them keep on growing forever, they get out of control, only grow leaves, and die in the winter’s cold. If I prune them, they won’t make any berries that year, because they’ll just try to regrow their leaves. But if I prune them every other year, the second year bears an amazing bounty, and my quarter-acre yard produces raspberries for the whole neighborhood.

I feel like a lot of parallels can be drawn here.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

Agreed.

True story: I have some raspberry bushes growing in my backyard. I only planted one for fun, but they took over like weeds. What’s funny is that they’re on a two year cycle, only actually producing berries every other year. If I just let them keep on growing forever, they get out of control, only grow leaves, and die in the winter’s cold. If I prune them, they won’t make any berries that year, because they’ll just try to regrow their leaves. But if I prune them every other year, the second year bears an amazing bounty, and my quarter-acre yard produces raspberries for the whole neighborhood.

I feel like a lot of parallels can be drawn here.

I think that our takeaway from this very nice agrarian metaphor is that if the game isn’t pruned, everyone...?...leaves.

We all know some form of rotation is necessary and we all hate to lose cards we liked and paid good money for. The two aren't exclusive of each other even if they are related. It's okay to like rotation and hate losing your cards.

I don't expect infinity to get much play at all unless there are some very hot pocks of this game with a big player base that can support the non-standard tournament every once in a while.

6 hours ago, gokubb said:

Infinite players will likely also play Standard and Trilogy. Standard players will likely also play Trilogy. Then there will always be Trilogy only players that don't want to invest in the other two formats. The player base will in no way be split into three.

Players can't just stay in Trilogy. Within a year, they'll either be buying new stuff or leaving the game. Once their card pool expands to two cycles they'll almost certainly move to Standard.

2 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Players can't just stay in Trilogy. Within a year, they'll either be buying new stuff or leaving the game. Once their card pool expands to two cycles they'll almost certainly move to Standard.

I understand what you’re saying, Standard will certainly be the, well, standard, but I think people will still play Trilogy. I’m going to keep up with the game anyway, and although I’ll want to play Infinity just to get to use all of my stuff, I think that I’ll probably crash the party on Trilogy. Especially early in the year - building with just one set is a blast!

16 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Players can't just stay in Trilogy. Within a year, they'll either be buying new stuff or leaving the game. Once their card pool expands to two cycles they'll almost certainly move to Standard.

I wasn't saying the same players. I was talking in general. Incoming players that jump into the game would probably prefer the Trilogy format. Those players will also be the most likely to quit playing the game. The ones that stick around will likely graduate to Standard, but there will always be Trilogy only players that get in and out of the game before moving on. Usually by joining some Drafts, liking the game, graduating to constructed, playing for a while, then deciding they don't like the game anymore. Lots of turnover in that group, but it's also where the next wave of serious players will come from.

I think the intent is new players compete in Trilogy because they can do so for the smallest investment. Once they have the necessary sets they compete in Standard. If you just keep buying what comes out you'll always be good for all three eventually.

Wouldn't it also be expected that a Standard draft/sealed event would be one pack from each of the standard sets with the last one making up the balance to the 6 or 8 packs. While a Trilogy draft/sealed would get you 2-3 packs for each of the latest sets. I would expect Trilogy to be very popular right after a release for everyone. Then fading toward standard after the new shiny wears a bit.

Anyone who thinks anything but standard will be played in major tournaments is delirious. It is logistically impossible to run 3-5 formats at worlds at separate times to allow people to play in every format they want. This means that if...and that's a BIG if...they decide to have all of the formats represented at worlds; they will have to run them concurrently. That means players have to choose. That means that Standard is the only one worth attending because all the players will be in it. Likely Worlds will ONLY be standard with side events for the casual peasants that don't want to see their cards go away. You play casually but like to have the opportunity to test your mettle in a high tier tournament? Too bad, this game is not for you anymore. You have to constantly buy stuff to stay relevant. Oh, you've been playing Vader since the game came out and love playing him and only upgrading a few cards here and there with new sets? Too ******* bad, go buy more **** so you have to make new decks every month.

This format is great for people who only play Destiny and that is a great thing for games like MtG. It's a terrible decision for Destiny because everyone I know who plays Destiny only does so because it's a fun and quick side game that they can still play tournaments in for a minimal monetary investment. Say goodbye to your relatively small playerbase after this decision. You're only satisfying players who would've stayed in the game even if there wasn't a rotation. Besides, FAQ/erratas work just fine. Rotation wasn't required. Just beecause a hugely successful game does something doesn't mean you should copy it. There is a reason why everyone who tries to imitate WoW immediately gets **** on and dies a very quick death (RIP Star Wars Galaxies).

Rotations are fine and needed for the health of the game, but did they have to be so narrow? Having a 3 cycle game does put a little more breathing room on product's value.

I had it all explained to me, once a new base set is released, the previous cycle and the new base set and future expansions from those two cycles are all good. If we get a product from a yet to be released base set, then that product from the not yet available set is legal. The 2-player box set is an example of this.

So, in very broad terms we’ll have 700 cards at the start of a cycle and 1000 by the end. I think that is a pretty expansive number of cards, more so if you consider that most competitive players can recall the card text with nothing more than a look at the card art. Allowing for the 2-player box each faction has 50+ Characters at the low point of a cycle.

1 hour ago, Hoffburger said:

Anyone who thinks anything but standard will be played in major tournaments is delirious.

This, FFG will try to force the Trilogy format on people but really why? For 4 months out of the year it is just one set less than standard, so it makes no sense, the other 4 months it is two sets less, so okay, it makes some sense and the last 4 months it does make sense since it is half the card pool. Still, that isn't enough sense to fracture the player base. On top of that, the format is for new people to compete at a tournament, and, again making any sense here.

Instead push for draft for new players. They get to play the game with a very limited card pool and gain product while having fun in an event. This is why draft is a thing. Instead of forcing the trilogy format on people, hold draft events.

It doesn't sound like they have any intentions of supporting an infinity format at worlds or any other competition. So I wouldn't count on any kind of official support for that format which means the value of cards won't hold up over time, killing the collectable aspect of this game. But hey, we do get a dumbed down trilogy format......

14 minutes ago, Mep said:

This, FFG will try to force the Trilogy format on people but really why? For 4 months out of the year it is just one set less than standard, so it makes no sense, the other 4 months it is two sets less, so okay, it makes some sense and the last 4 months it does make sense since it is half the card pool. Still, that isn't enough sense to fracture the player base. On top of that, the format is for new people to compete at a tournament, and, again making any sense here.

Instead push for draft for new players. They get to play the game with a very limited card pool and gain product while having fun in an event. This is why draft is a thing. Instead of forcing the trilogy format on people, hold draft events.

It doesn't sound like they have any intentions of supporting an infinity format at worlds or any other competition. So I wouldn't count on any kind of official support for that format which means the value of cards won't hold up over time, killing the collectable aspect of this game. But hey, we do get a dumbed down trilogy format......

It's a first rotation for them, and actually the player base is relatively new and small. When more people joins, more tournament kind will follow, it is a simple rule.

i'm looking for trilogy and infinity (also standard). Trilogy will give the impression of the first time i played, with very little card pool and less dramatic choice when making decks. Infinity will always be an option, and i look foward different type of tournaments.

My only concern, is card value. If we compare SW with Magic, Magic discontinued alpha, beta, unlimited, revised (and more expansion) BEFORE creating type 2 (Kind of a rotation before the word existed). SW is doing the opposite, awakening still widely available and eventually not usable in trilogy and standard... I'm looking for a drop in price for those card, and i'm a little sad about that. (High card value draws people to CCG, deflation and weak value will, on the other side, frighten collectors and player/collectors).

Chak

When do we have to start playing with the formats?

As soon as Legacies come out all three formats will exist. Though Standard and Infinity will be the same card pool.

This time next year when wave 3 comes out the three formats will be distinctly different.

I don't think you'll see the same problem with Infinity that Magic sees with Legacy and Vintage. FFG is certainly well aware of the disastrous precedent Magic set with their Reserved List, and won't make the same mistake. As long as they have the ability to reprint cards, there's no reason Infinity needs to become inaccessible.

4 hours ago, pmemmer said:

I don't think you'll see the same problem with Infinity that Magic sees with Legacy and Vintage. FFG is certainly well aware of the disastrous precedent Magic set with their Reserved List, and won't make the same mistake. As long as they have the ability to reprint cards, there's no reason Infinity needs to become inaccessible.

Having ones cards be worth stupid amounts of money is anything but a disaster. It gives magic a huge notoriety that other CCGs that failed long ago never had. So that was never really a mistake but made their game more valuable.

I do agree Destiny won't have this, umm problem, mostly because I just don't see it taking off like magic did. They have already done reprints in the two player starter, so it is possible we will see more cards get reprinted. Some cards may never see the light of day again like force speed.

What formats people play will possibly be down to what kind of prize support/perks are available for each one. My FLGS has a small amount of people who play Destiny fairly regularly and quite a few more who just play it now and then on the side. Whenever the FLGS runs an event for Destiny with prizes up for grabs, everyone is all of a sudden playing destiny again. There is the potential, with what is essentially four formats as Draft needs to be included in this, for some kind of event to be held at least once a month and not just quarterly. This will hopefully get people playing again and draw some new players into the game.

It is not really that big of deal. Awakening won't rotate until this time next year. By then the card pool will be very large. It won't be so bad if FFG releases base sets with cards from previous sets, like MTG. Moral of the story is collect to collect and not to have every playable card in the game.

9 hours ago, pmemmer said:

I don't think you'll see the same problem with Infinity that Magic sees with Legacy and Vintage. FFG is certainly well aware of the disastrous precedent Magic set with their Reserved List, and won't make the same mistake. As long as they have the ability to reprint cards, there's no reason Infinity needs to become inaccessible.

CCG needs value to keep player playing... and collecting. Proof? When awakening was relatively unavailable and SoR not out yet, there were several players at gamestore, why? Card price. High prices are exciting, gives value to the rare cards you own, even if you don't have every card you want. CCG tend to become boring when "everyone have everything".

Last tournament I attended, no one, NO ONE needed anything. Every player had all the card needed in their tournament deck... It's not that bad... or is it? Yes it is, CCG must have difficult card to obtain. When i was playing magic (type 1, equivalent to legacy or the other one) 99% of the local players had "not every card" needed for their decks, and we still had tons of fun and some almost "unrechable" cards gave us a reason to trade and hope.

When every one has everything, it's just boring. I'm a 50% Player 50% Collector and I'm becoming bored... FFG, PLZ discontinue something and make something HARD TO ACQUIRE, after all, it's a CCG (The first C is for collectible).

5 hours ago, Mep said:

Having ones cards be worth stupid amounts of money is anything but a disaster. It gives magic a huge notoriety that other CCGs that failed long ago never had. So that was never really a mistake but made their game more valuable.

I do agree Destiny won't have this, umm problem, mostly because I just don't see it taking off like magic did. They have already done reprints in the two player starter, so it is possible we will see more cards get reprinted. Some cards may never see the light of day again like force speed.

100% agree

Chak

Lest we forget Destiny is selling VERY well (I think it was Q2 this year where it moved past Pokemon into the #2 sales slot in CCGs). And event attendance has been high. So there are players.

The bigger challenge is going to be keeping people spending money while keeping the game affordable. If people are able to sit tight the spending stops and the game no longer is a profit engine. If it is too much money to play competitively then players are scared off. And this is why FFG is trying to in effect please both worlds with the three different competition strata.

The Infinite format works for anyone who has cards. The Trilogy format is for those entering Destiny or those who prefer building from the smallest pool while Standard appeals more to those who may not want the biggest pool but also want to get a little more life out of their cards. Time will tell how this approach works.

I have to admit I am tempted to focus on Trilogy play once it is active simply because I like working with smaller card pools.

4 hours ago, Chakan99939 said:

CCG needs value to keep player playing... and collecting. Proof? When awakening was relatively unavailable and SoR not out yet, there were several players at gamestore, why? Card price. High prices are exciting, gives value to the rare cards you own, even if you don't have every card you want. CCG tend to become boring when "everyone have everything".

Last tournament I attended, no one, NO ONE needed anything. Every player had all the card needed in their tournament deck... It's not that bad... or is it? Yes it is, CCG must have difficult card to obtain. When i was playing magic (type 1, equivalent to legacy or the other one) 99% of the local players had "not every card" needed for their decks, and we still had tons of fun and some almost "unrechable" cards gave us a reason to trade and hope.

When every one has everything, it's just boring. I'm a 50% Player 50% Collector and I'm becoming bored... FFG, PLZ discontinue something and make something HARD TO ACQUIRE, after all, it's a CCG (The first C is for collectible).

100% agree

Chak

+1

This was my experience as well, and it was really annoying because nobody would trade with me because they didn’t need anything. And the game tended to stagnate, with deckbuilding being more like an LCG rather than a CCG.