As a ccg newbie i have a question;

When cards are reprinted, with the same text, cost etc. Etc. Does one have to own specifically the reprinted card in order for it to be legal?

As an example: if i have tactical mastery from awakenings, which cycles out, but the 2 player game remains legal, does my deck require the 2 player version to be considered legal despite being the exact same card?

49 minutes ago, Stu35 said:

As a ccg newbie i have a question;

When cards are reprinted, with the same text, cost etc. Etc. Does one have to own specifically the reprinted card in order for it to be legal?

As an example: if i have tactical mastery from awakenings, which cycles out, but the 2 player game remains legal, does my deck require the 2 player version to be considered legal despite being the exact same card?

Not specified, but at the same time, it is likely that those card will be "legal". Except maybe for picture or expansion symbols, they will have the same gameplay effects.

Chak

I would assume reprints would have to be the version from the reprinted set. So if playing Trilogy the doubt from the 2p set is legal but the awakenings one is not. Obviously when playing with friends it matters very little but if you went to a OP event it probably needs the right symbol on it?!?!?!?

The whole thing looks good, will spice up the weekly meet ups as we can vary the tournaments we do. And with draft and sealed the fun continues.

Um there's 3 formats. I think they've addressed everyone in these.

one with an aggressive 2 year rotation.

one with only the new and current cycle for new players and new cards only

and the third, and this is the one I love, no rotation ever!!!

What the **** is there to possibly complain about?????? The only way I can understand a single complaint would be the complainer doesn't understand? Didn't read the whole thing? (go back and re read the article)

anyway cheers to FFG for finding a solution that will work for everyone!

1 hour ago, Aces1973 said:

I would assume reprints would have to be the version from the reprinted set. So if playing Trilogy the doubt from the 2p set is legal but the awakenings one is not. Obviously when playing with friends it matters very little but if you went to a OP event it probably needs the right symbol on it?!?!?!?

The whole thing looks good, will spice up the weekly meet ups as we can vary the tournaments we do. And with draft and sealed the fun continues.

Generally speaking, provided the card is legal within the current rotation, which set the physical copy you have came from is moot.

I don't see FFG applying a different standard unless their reprints aren't reprints but contain small tweaks that do change the card.

12 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

Welp, that was the fastest way to kill the game for me. This was a fun side game that I could also take my deck to competitive tournaments and play in. Can't do that anymore. Rotations are great for players who play this game multiple times every week and have it as their only game. I don't and I'm sure many others don't have that time to dedicate to that. The eternal format almost definitely won't be the tournament format of choice or the Worlds/National Championships format of choice so I guess I'm out. It was fun at least.

Can’t help but agree... so gutted I actually pushed my local hobby shop to go big into this game bought a small fortune since the SOR set and played several store competitions .. I loved how the cards would stop being printed imo it made the cards carry a rare value from the originals sets also it was nice to see a card that’s never used be paired with a new cards to do something great ...but wow just smashed all that ... I’m sure if this is your only hobby it’s ok but for my personal situation this has been the worst update for me possible. I know people are saying magic has been doing this for ages but pretty much every destiny players I’ve played gave up magic for same reason or has no interest in it ??‍♂️Time to sell all my cards ?

27 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:

Um there's 3 formats. I think they've addressed everyone in these.

one with an aggressive 2 year rotation.

one with only the new and current cycle for new players and new cards only

and the third, and this is the one I love, no rotation ever!!!

What the **** is there to possibly complain about?????? The only way I can understand a single complaint would be the complainer doesn't understand? Didn't read the whole thing? (go back and re read the article)

anyway cheers to FFG for finding a solution that will work for everyone!

I think ...yeah there is reason to complain there is 3 different tiers but that means players being separated this might work for big championships but not for small stores 20 players divided into 3 groups ... so then you have 6 player tournaments ... I hope I’m completely misreading this but I think the tournaments will all or mostly be the later cycles the only point I see this update is so fog can profit more from people who can and want to compete at the highest level

So you don't like 1 out of the 3 formats and that's it your done? Hahahaha

8 minutes ago, Riley298 said:

I think ...yeah there is reason to complain there is 3 different tiers but that means players being separated this might work for big championships but not for small stores 20 players divided into 3 groups ... so then you have 6 player tournaments ... I hope I’m completely misreading this but I think the tournaments will all or mostly be the later cycles the only point I see this update is so fog can profit more from people who can and want to compete at the highest level

While I see where you are coming from, I also think that local stores are more willing to take feedback from the player community and go with the majority from time to time. This also keeps the game fresh in between releases. Some stores were already doing some things to change things up, like giving heroes 33 points to work with pre-errata. Now the different formats can give every player an opportunity to tweak their decks accordingly. It is sad that in certain cases, one deck using out of rotation heroes cannot be played across formats. But again, this is where I feel is part of the fun. How do we make certain characters work that otherwise we wouldn't even think twice about. FFG is going to make their money regardless, it seems the interest is to attract more players. In your case, the pool of players may grow to more than 20 at the small store to a larger group. That's the hope anyway.

CIHYS?!?!

Play sealed, play draft, play trilogy, play standard or play Infinite.

It is your scene, your op kits, your store. Buy one for each type of game format. Please everyone!

Anyone can play all the styles for the next year. After that only people who bought awakenings (year 1) will be restricted when wave 3 hits winter 2018.

If you don't want to invest anymore in the game after today I guess it will be a problem.

This will not break the game. It will keep things fresh and as mentioned allow clubs to get new players in easily without having to go back 2 years to find expensive dice/cards.

12 hours ago, kitsune23 said:

So really expansion 2 and 3 in any cycle aren't going to be active for a 2 full years in standard.

I haven't seen it confirmed by FFG, but I guess the oldest cycle will drop out of standard as soon as the start of the next cycle's launch date. So yeah, that last set in a cycle could be in Standard rotation for only about 3-4 months. That's bonkers. If they rotated out as new parts of a cycle were launched, it would be better, but I can't see this format doing much to sell that second and third set of boosters if they are only going to be in Standard rotation for such a short time.

Edit: Clearly I have Trilogy confused with Standard. Times are much better than 4 months.

The third set will be in standard for about 16 months. The second about 20 and the first 24.

Trilogy is Magic's old Block format. Something that was hardly played at all and has been discontinued for a while.

Btw 16 month is one month better than the shortest time in standard when comparing to Magic. Magic does have nearly twice the amounts of cards in standard tho.

57 minutes ago, Riley298 said:

I think ...yeah there is reason to complain there is 3 different tiers but that means players being separated this might work for big championships but not for small stores 20 players divided into 3 groups ... so then you have 6 player tournaments ... I hope I’m completely misreading this but I think the tournaments will all or mostly be the later cycles the only point I see this update is so fog can profit more from people who can and want to compete at the highest level

Infinite players will likely also play Standard and Trilogy. Standard players will likely also play Trilogy. Then there will always be Trilogy only players that don't want to invest in the other two formats. The player base will in no way be split into three.

This announcement protects value of old cards through Infinite format, which the hardcore will always play and which will definitely end up with its own championship cycle. I don't see any way it doesn't so long as they put some effort into balancing it.

This announcement promotes new players by allowing them to jump in on even footing each December. New players that like it become Standard players and those that stick around become Infinite, further increasing the value of older sets.

This doesn't just work in Magic. It works in any practical application. My only gripe is they didn't announce an official draft championship.

There's 3 formats introduced but let's be realistic, Standard is going to be...the Standard. Infinite is most likely going to be delegated to smaller and casual venues.

1 minute ago, Hordeoverseer said:

There's 3 formats introduced but let's be realistic, Standard is going to be...the Standard. Infinite is most likely going to be delegated to smaller and casual venues.

This isn't Type One Magic where you have 20 years to catch up and $10,000 cards to buy. The game is new enough that, as long as there's still some balance, Infinite should be nearly as popular as Standard.

1 minute ago, gokubb said:

This isn't Type One Magic where you have 20 years to catch up and $10,000 cards to buy. The game is new enough that, as long as there's still some balance, Infinite should be nearly as popular as Standard.

For now. Give it 2 or 3 years and you'll see Infinite all but disappear.

This is the issue with a rapidly advancing CCG game. You have to make it so that new players can compete at a reasonable level. You have to kill production of old versions as you produce new versions. The retiring of cards allows you to phase out poor design choices, or introduce new ideas/combos that aren't overpowered because of old cards. Having EVERYTHING available typically creates super powered combos that just can't be continually designed around. It's healthy for the game...but sucks for the players.

It means your relatively high value investment is made worthless after a fairly short period of time. Pump money into a blind buy game only to have the items you are purchasing become unplayable. And I love how some here have made reprints out to be a positive thing. "You like a card from wave 1, well just wait, they'll reprint it in wave 5, or a virtually identical card with a different picture will show up later" Oh great...so I can buy a bunch of blind packs again in hopes of getting something I already have but can't play.

The lifecycle system is GREAT for the developer. Less time concerning yourself about balance. The ability to reprint and reissue stuff that forces customers to pay for the same stuff all over again. Forcing players to continue paying large wads of cash to keep playing a game. The scary part is the other option for the developer is the power creep model to make new expansions worth purchasing.

It's why I basically avoid all these sorts of games. They are designed in such a way that they force you to continue dropping large wads of cash to even keep playing the game.

13 minutes ago, gokubb said:

This isn't Type One Magic where you have 20 years to catch up and $10,000 cards to buy. The game is new enough that, as long as there's still some balance, Infinite should be nearly as popular as Standard.

I hope this is the case, and think it will be at least early on, when people newer to the game don't have to go back 5+ years to get stuff.

(PS, when I first heard "trilogies" I was excited that it was some kind of "play only cards from a specific SW trilogy--either episodes 1-3, 4-6, or 7-9." I would love a variant like this because I really like theme in games. However, it would be very difficult to balance, which seems hard enough to do already.)

16 minutes ago, gokubb said:

This isn't Type One Magic where you have 20 years to catch up and $10,000 cards to buy. The game is new enough that, as long as there's still some balance, Infinite should be nearly as popular as Standard.

Very true, but we also know that the Awakenings cycle has had more than a few design bumps resulting in lopsided play balance and outright broken cards. I don't think FFG had any choice but to be aggressive in getting this cycle out of rotation ASAP.

1 minute ago, kingbobb said:

Very true, but we also know that the Awakenings cycle has had more than a few design bumps resulting in lopsided play balance and outright broken cards. I don't think FFG had any choice but to be aggressive in getting this cycle out of rotation ASAP.

Good point. Also, it's not like these formats from FFG are set in stone, they could always be adjusted or completely changed, as they have been in other games (cough mtg).

I really don't believe Infinites will phase out.

They also said there will be a holocron document for Infinites. This will be erratas and what not, probably fairly aggressive to keep NPE combos created in such a large card pool under control.

infinite will phase out if we end up with some royally busted combos with new/old cards.

thats about the only way i see it phasing out.

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

infinite will phase out if we end up with some royally busted combos with new/old cards.

thats about the only way i see it phasing out.

well, FFG has proven willing to mitigate that sort of thing via hard errata already

I believe the bigger issue would be if they begin releasing new versions of old cards that can stack with previously established cards and make decks overwhelmingly consistent, but this issue can be resolved through reprinting old cards into the newer formats

I’m guessing most events will be Standard. That’s why I was kinda hoping the rotation for that would be three cycles, not just two. Oh well. I’ll hang on to my of my collection I guess, but I’m not sure what to do with my duplicates, because I was hoping they’d retain a little more trade value and I wouldn’t have to buy as much of the new sets. I’m still interested to see where this goes, and I’ll certainly play all three formats!

3 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

So you don't like 1 out of the 3 formats and that's it your done? Hahahaha

3 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

So you don't like 1 out of the 3 formats and that's it your done? Hahahaha

I understand what you mean but I'm thinking ahead I can tell I'm not the only 1 as comments have already mentioned infinite being phased out ....for now I can carry on as normal only time will tell

OMG FFG you SUCK at writing. Hire someone with a bit more than a high school diploma to write your articles.

To recap, all you have to do is say the two player set is part of the legacies block, err cycle. Everyone has figured that one out by the box. You don't need any confusing language to include that in a cycle. Don't come up with some fancy name for Regionals, you are just going to confuse people and get them upset because there isn't one near them. "yes, look at all these cool prizes you'll never get!". You don't need FOUR formats. Draft, standard and anything goes, err Infinity, is fine. Draft is the format you want to push for new players and while Disney may own the IP, no need to steal the name from one of their games for your evergreen format.

With that vented, this is basically what was expected. You basically get two years worth of products, except in winter when you get just over a years worth, which is basically their Trilogy format. Also, was I the only one that first thought Trilogy would be their Modern format containing 3 full cycles rather than standard minus a set or two or three at most. Really not necessary.