I didn't get to see OGDaddyD until the end of his run, and then had to go back and read all his stuff after the fact. I'm excited to be here at the beginning to see how things transpire, no matter what direction they go in.

So much great story potential for so many things

1 hour ago, Tabris2k said:

See? This is what I’m talking about. First, I doubt Mantis players would’ve reacted like this to the mention of a pirate called Yotsutomo.

Second, you’re assuming he’s Daigotsu, and that he’s gonna have all of Daigotsu’s traits. He’s called Daisetsu, so he has to have the strongest of wills, ambition beyond anyone else, and a deep love for both his god and his family.

See what I mean?

Look, this Matsu Tsuko seems to be the same Matsu Tsuko we know from OL5R, like Kachiko, or Shoju, or many others. If they’re going to introduce Daigotsu, why not doing it with the same name?

Aside from the choose your own name at Gempukku, there is also the fact the while he is technically the same character, he has a completly different story.

Daigotsu was not even born when he was kidnapped then corrupted. He was even unaware of his imperial blood until much later. I think it is a nice way to show the difference between the two versions of the character. And like many people said, I'm just happy to have Big D back, even if they take him in a completly different direction.

Tesuhiko is correct.

While this is clearly this universe's equivalent of the boy who, in the other universe, became Daigotsu, the circumstances that, in that universe, turned an (unborn) Imperial Prince into Daigotsu are completely absent from this universe. There is no kidnapping, no growing up in Jigoku (for crying out loud), no bloodspeaker sheananigans. None of the forces that made Daigotsu, Daigotsu.

Which is to say, in all ways that matter : this isn't Daigotsu.

1 hour ago, cielago said:

...there really isn't any reason to doubt this is the same kid who became Daigotsu in the old fiction.

Emphasis mine, and for fine reason. I'm totally on the This-is-Daigotsu train, but hey folks, this isn't your daddy's L5R. He was. Perhaps he will be a second time? Maybe he won't. I'm going to love the ride, though!

1 hour ago, Himoto said:

Tesuhiko is correct.

While this is clearly this universe's equivalent of the boy who, in the other universe, became Daigotsu, the circumstances that, in that universe, turned an (unborn) Imperial Prince into Daigotsu are completely absent from this universe. There is no kidnapping, no growing up in Jigoku (for crying out loud), no bloodspeaker sheananigans. None of the forces that made Daigotsu, Daigotsu.

Which is to say, in all ways that matter : this isn't Daigotsu.

I'm still happy to see he's still there and I'm eagerly waiting to see what kind of man he'll become, good or bad.

I think I'll only be disappointed if he is killed in the near future or complelty forgotten.

1 hour ago, Himoto said:

Which is to say, in all ways that matter : this isn't Daigotsu.

The blood in his veins is all that matters... The Spider took an oath of loyalty that stretches beyond time and space. If the Hantei calls, we will answer, whether he is "good" or "evil" is a lesser matter for the weak.

#HailTheRightfulLine

I follow the 9th Kami. If Daisetsu does the same then I shall welcome him with open arms (all 6 of them)

Calling it:

Little D is gonna find some roundabout way to off the brother and claim the Throne, and when that happens there's gonna be some kind of Imperials Vs Clans action, with some of the clans actually siding with the Imperials out of loyalty to the emporer. Or maybe even just Scorpion...

And he can still stumble on maho tsukai lore that can push him towards a dark destiny. Wouldn't be the first time a disappointed Emperor's little sibling delves into Maho.

Last one was called Otomo Jama, and he ended up with a pretty good vilain record. We owe him the tradition to cremate the dead.

2 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Calling it:

Little D is gonna find some roundabout way to off the brother and claim the Throne, and when that happens there's gonna be some kind of Imperials Vs Clans action, with some of the clans actually siding with the Imperials out of loyalty to the emporer. Or maybe even just Scorpion...

Sounds fun. Maybe they'll marry him off to Shoju's Favored Niece as a means of controlling the throne from the shadows. And replace the chancellor with someone who approves the Crab requisitions to entice them to be on board with the "change in management" and stay at the wall... seems I've heard of a pincer alliance before, so this could be a fun take on it.

2 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Calling it:

Little D is gonna find some roundabout way to off the brother and claim the Throne, and when that happens there's gonna be some kind of Imperials Vs Clans action, with some of the clans actually siding with the Imperials out of loyalty to the emporer. Or maybe even just Scorpion...

The guy is like 15 years old. That would make a lot of sense, but not right now. Let him mature a bit.

I certainly hope Daisetsu does not end up becoming neo-Daigotsu in a straightforward way.

In my opinion, if Daisetsu becomes involved with Shadowlandsy matters, it should be as a tragic hero (think Tadaka, or Sezaru's fight with madness in the old story). And if he becomes a villain, it should be as a mundane villain who actually has the potential to divide the clans rather than unite them against him. We've already told the story where the second son of Hantei XXXVIII becomes Shadowlands champion. We need not tell it again.

5 hours ago, Tetsuhiko said:

The guy is like 15 years old. That would make a lot of sense, but not right now. Let him mature a bit.

Oh yeah, I completely mean in time, years maybe, not like, this time next week...

But yeah, telling ya. Older brother is getting merked.

14 hours ago, Himoto said:

Tesuhiko is correct.

While this is clearly this universe's equivalent of the boy who, in the other universe, became Daigotsu, the circumstances that, in that universe, turned an (unborn) Imperial Prince into Daigotsu are completely absent from this universe. There is no kidnapping, no growing up in Jigoku (for crying out loud), no bloodspeaker sheananigans. None of the forces that made Daigotsu, Daigotsu.

Which is to say, in all ways that matter : this isn't Daigotsu.

The complicated origin story wasn't what made Daigotsu Daigotsu.

It was that he was an intelligent, charismatic villain that inspired not just fear, but loyalty in his followers.

It was that he was every bit as devoted to his dark Kami as the rest of Rokugan were to their 7.

And in the same way, he was devoted to his wife and child. And his friend--he went on an epic rampage when Goju Kyoden was killed.

He was a powerful sorcerer and duelist, and even ascended into godhood near the end of AEG's production of the game, but it's not just his badassery that defines him, and certainly not his origins--it's his character .

And if that's the same, he's Daigotsu, with or without the same beginnings.

22 minutes ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

it's his character

His Marty Stuness if you will.

1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:

His Marty Stuness if you will.

I won't.

That term, in all of its forms, has been misused to the point that many people have lost track of its original meaning, which isn't just that a character achieves a lot, but also that it's an author inserting themselves as the character. I don't believe any such thing is the case with Daigotsu.

If this is the beginnings of a "Daigotsu" type character then I think it's a good start. So that's very encouraging. We've already set a precedent where the Imperial family is open to taking an objective view on things they don't understand with them wanting to study Meishodo. If these elements are all planting the seeds for later (and it certainly seems that way) then I feel like this is the right way to introduce a Spider-like faction. It's a sympathetic beginning.

A well written story. I hope we get more from Nancy M. Sauer in the future.

All's I know is that I will absolutely cream if I get an opportunity to play with Daisetsu.

14 hours ago, Himoto said:

I certainly hope Daisetsu does not end up becoming neo-Daigotsu in a straightforward way.

In my opinion, if Daisetsu becomes involved with Shadowlandsy matters, it should be as a tragic hero (think Tadaka, or Sezaru's fight with madness in the old story). And if he becomes a villain, it should be as a mundane villain who actually has the potential to divide the clans rather than unite them against him. We've already told the story where the second son of Hantei XXXVIII becomes Shadowlands champion. We need not tell it again.

i agree with a lot of this, except for "We've already told the story where the second son of Hantei XXXVIII becomes Shadowlands champion. We need not tell it again. ". this is like saying "we've already told the story of a Lion champion who is a strategy genius and leads his clan when his brother dies" or describing any canon character. i'm not saying no characters arc should change, but i'm also pushing back on the idea that because it was done in the old story, that means it shouldn't be done in this one. The new canon has been reusing the old in a lot of places, and changing in others, but its definitely not discarding entire character arcs simply for sake of them having already been done.

24 minutes ago, cielago said:

i agree with a lot of this, except for "We've already told the story where the second son of Hantei XXXVIII becomes Shadowlands champion. We need not tell it again. ". this is like saying "we've already told the story of a Lion champion who is a strategy genius and leads his clan when his brother dies" or describing any canon character. i'm not saying no characters arc should change, but i'm also pushing back on the idea that because it was done in the old story, that means it shouldn't be done in this one. The new canon has been reusing the old in a lot of places, and changing in others, but its definitely not discarding entire character arcs simply for sake of them having already been done.

O-Ushi x Yasamura forever!

Long Live Horseshoe Crabs!

There's a difference between similar or identical starting situations (eg, Toturi taking the lion from his brother, right at the start), and retelling the same story once the story gets rolling.

Starting from a mostly familiar point is great. But now the story need to grow into its own thing, that might occasionally echo the original, but should not follow it.

More specifically, it'd be wonderful to avoid the pitfalls of the last go-round. Kisada needn't sell out everything he believes in over a long weekend. Crane don't need to be responsible for "culture." Togashi doesn't have to be a parasitic knock-off of Shiba. Lion don't need to pratfall like they're Jerry Lewis. Mantis don't need to have the writers pretend they had some sort of identity crisis, ever. Phoenix don't need to choose between sitting on the sidelines or calling upon dark magic every time they part their hair. Unicorn don't have to be someone's patsies.

And Daigotsu and the Spider don't have to eclipse everyone. Let Daigotsu have actual character flaws and shortcomings. Let the Spider have a reason to want to get along with others, and others have a reason to get on with them. Don't have them knock over the setting's underpinnings, then do whatever they want and get away with it.

1 hour ago, SirEuain said:

More specifically, it'd be wonderful to avoid the pitfalls of the last go-round. Kisada needn't sell out everything he believes in over a long weekend. Crane don't need to be responsible for "culture." Togashi doesn't have to be a parasitic knock-off of Shiba. Lion don't need to pratfall like they're Jerry Lewis. Mantis don't need to have the writers pretend they had some sort of identity crisis, ever. Phoenix don't need to choose between sitting on the sidelines or calling upon dark magic every time they part their hair. Unicorn don't have to be someone's patsies.

And Daigotsu and the Spider don't have to eclipse everyone. Let Daigotsu have actual character flaws and shortcomings. Let the Spider have a reason to want to get along with others, and others have a reason to get on with them. Don't have them knock over the setting's underpinnings, then do whatever they want and get away with it.

All of this.

And I would add, I hope that while we have strong faction characters, that literally none of them become so pivotal to their clan's portrayal that the faction feels hollow without them.

Looking at you, Daigotsu, Togashi, Yoritomo...

Until otherwise noted/stated/etc, I'm going to treat Daisetsu as a brand new character with his own opinions, motivations, goals, strengths and weaknesses.

I look forward to his development in the story, if any.

Just now, BlindSamurai13 said:

Until otherwise noted/stated/etc, I'm going to teat Daisetsu as a brand new character with his own opinions, motivations, goals, strengths and weaknesses.

I look forward to his development in the story, if any.

As one should.