Here we go again. Guys, if you want to rewrite the rules of the game you'd better have a good reason. "I just thought it might be gud kk?" is not a good reason.

PS wars were a direct result of how ridiculous pre-nerf Nym was. You just needed PS11 (or PS10 with a solid bid) if you wanted to stand any chance of winning with non-turret high-agi fighters. FFG applied the correct solution and simply nerfed the offending ship.

When we begin to see PS10+ ships dominate the meta because their high PS gives them an insurmountable advantage, we can start talking about caps, limits etc. Until then - very high PS ships were a part of this game since the very beginning. Not once did this lead to meta getting skewed in some terrible way. In fact, PS10+ helped to curb some of the worst excesses of Whisper at her prime. So, can we please not try to fix non-existent problems? This tends to produce very real ones down the road.

VI as a deletable card working for 1 turn only would be nice.

31 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Here we go again. Guys, if you want to rewrite the rules of the game you'd better have a good reason. "I just thought it might be gud kk?" is not a good reason.

PS wars were a direct result of how ridiculous pre-nerf Nym was. You just needed PS11 (or PS10 with a solid bid) if you wanted to stand any chance of winning with non-turret high-agi fighters. FFG applied the correct solution and simply nerfed the offending ship.

When we begin to see PS10+ ships dominate the meta because their high PS gives them an insurmountable advantage, we can start talking about caps, limits etc. Until then - very high PS ships were a part of this game since the very beginning. Not once did this lead to meta getting skewed in some terrible way. In fact, PS10+ helped to curb some of the worst excesses of Whisper at her prime. So, can we please not try to fix non-existent problems? This tends to produce very real ones down the road.

you mean like ps11 imp alpha?

Adding the dot would be a solid idea. PS9 cap just makes ps11 ps9 with more access .

10 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

A better solution, to my mind, would be to cap PS at 9. It would rein in the abundance of PS10's currently possible and make native PS9 more valuable.

Yup. Doing this would make it see way less table and it makes real sense in my opinions.

Capping at 9 isn't really a good thing. However, since most (if not all) non-unique pilots that can use an EPT are PS 5 and below, make VI limited to non-unique pilots. That way unique pilots can still use adaptability (still making PS 7 ships like Whisper viable at PS 8), PS 8 ships still great at PS 9, and PS 9's willing to give up better options great at PS 10. Will it cut down on the PS war? Yes.

That being said, if VI was non-unique only, you could easily argue for bringing back the old cloaking rules much less harsh at PS 8 max......

True, but that’s why 9’s are 9’s, they’re the elite. I think PS9’s should be the few, iconic pilots of the cannon; I can only think of a four really that fit that super high iconic standard. I think both VI and Adaptability should have the phrase added, “to a maximum pilot skill of 8.” This would make the PS race basically stop.

11 hours ago, Mackaywarrior said:

Taking VI means no push the limit or expertise or any other EPT.

Unless you are flying an A-Wing.

I dont see an an issue with Veteran Instincts. Equipping it fir the PS boost means loosing other effective EPTs. It’s a fair trade in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

you mean like ps11 imp alpha?

Adding the dot would be a solid idea. PS9 cap just makes ps11 ps9 with more access .

You don't just nerf things because they work. You nerf them when they work too well and distort the game. Is PS11 alpha a thing? Sure. Is it winning everything left and right, wiping out entire archetypes from the meta by it's very existence? Far from it. There are other lists out there that perform way better and way more consistently. Does it merit a nerf? Nope.

So far I've been doing quite well with a two ship list and the PS is only 6 and 8, and I'm not complaining.

And I'm almost never going to put VI on my GUNBOATS or Rhoboats. Maybe Vynder if I have a point left over.

11 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

You don't just nerf things because they work. You nerf them when they work too well and distort the game. Is PS11 alpha a thing? Sure. Is it winning everything left and right, wiping out entire archetypes from the meta by it's very existence? Far from it. There are other lists out there that perform way better and way more consistently. Does it merit a nerf? Nope.

I dunno, it's doing a number on swarms, but that's more the fault of harpoon missiles that VI.

11 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I like the idea of capping PS at 9. There's no feasible situation where someone should be better than Vader, Wedge, the like. As good as though, that, that is perfectly acceptable.

It also makes Roark Garnet really interesting. His ability could still work if he was the only thing that could have somebody else exceed the cap, because that requires two ships working together to accomplish the goal and I'd allow that.

But you see, Roark is proof that 11 was always the intended 'cap.' That is why he makes ships a 12, to get them over that top end. The best pilots in the game have a PS 9 with an EPT. You can push them up to their maximum, or you can forgo that advantage for another EPT. Everyone calling for a hard cap on PS at 9 because PS 11 is too powerful, should realize that is a *BUFF* to all those high PS pilots. VI *IS* the nerf. because of VI you can't guarantee Vader will be the top PS pilot if you want to equip him with Expertise, PTL, or something else. If the cap is set to 9 then you have both the guaranteed top PS AND you can give him an additional EPT.

So if top PS is the only way you can win the game, I guess you are stuck with losing your EPTs. But learn to fly low PS ships and not only can you get out of the Pilot skill "war" but you can cost the other player valuable points. "You spent 3 points getting your ships all above 9? huh, well all my ships are only PS 4. So those points are wasted."

25 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I dunno, it's doing a number on swarms, but that's more the fault of harpoon missiles that VI.

How is high PS doing a number on swarms? Swarms use low PS ships. Who cares if a ship has a PS 9 or 11 when you are flying all PS 1-4?

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

True, but that’s why 9’s are 9’s, they’re the elite. I think PS9’s should be the few, iconic pilots of the cannon; I can only think of a four really that fit that super high iconic standard. I think both VI and Adaptability should have the phrase added, “to a maximum pilot skill of 8.” This would make the PS race basically stop.

The elite pilots are PS 11, not 9. They can choose to reduce themselves down to a 9 to get another advantage.

43 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I dunno, it's doing a number on swarms, but that's more the fault of harpoon missiles that VI.

You can't "do a number" on things that don't exist. Maybe we should also nerf all the things that beat quadruple b-wings? That might take a while though...

19 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

The elite pilots are PS 11, not 9. They can choose to reduce themselves down to a 9 to get another advantage.

Put mildly, your retort is sheer lunacy the way I see it. Isn't this is a game based on the fantasy realm of the Star Wars universe and it's amazing characters? You must admit that there ARE clear and defined elite pilots in the SW universe. Heck, this is the way the game was designed and is clearly how the characters abilities and pilot cards are designed and priced. The fact VI and Adaptability exists with the ability to actually trump these iconic pilots is the reason that this game mechanic has caused a PS race that causes issues with player's enjoyment of the game. We all love the SW universe right? We all love this game correct? If the answer is yes, then this PS issue is a fair and easily arguable issue, that obviously runs contrary to both.

At this point I might as well be a novelty account repeating this, but what about having VI as :

'During the combat phase increase your pilot skill value by 2'

Whisper isn't hurt that badly, as ACD can still trigger early. The card is still usable in each set it comes in, and still useful for its point cost (especially in alpha-strike lists), but no longer mandatory on certain builds, allowing Vader and co to take real epts.

40 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Put mildly, your retort is sheer lunacy the way I see it. Isn't this is a game based on the fantasy realm of the Star Wars universe and it's amazing characters? You must admit that there ARE clear and defined elite pilots in the SW universe. Heck, this is the way the game was designed and is clearly how the characters abilities and pilot cards are designed and priced. The fact VI and Adaptability exists with the ability to actually trump these iconic pilots is the reason that this game mechanic has caused a PS race that causes issues with player's enjoyment of the game. We all love the SW universe right? We all love this game correct? If the answer is yes, then this PS issue is a fair and easily arguable issue, that obviously runs contrary to both.

Nah. He's just looking at it the other way 'round.

Vader et. al. can be PS 11 any day of the week (and thus top dog), unless you decide that you would rather use that slot for something else. Vader, with a native PS of 9, is defined as the best pilot in the game, except in the moments that VI trumps him. That's a choice of the players' making during list building.

IMHO, it isn't VI that's the problem, it's that way too many pilots in the game are getting assigned a high (7-9) PS. As a key example, I would dare say that the Phantom would NEVER have been broken if the generics were PS 1-3 and Echo and Whisper were PS 4-6. They would have forced a PS shift, but not to the point of making the ship broken.

In design, the scale really should be set as follows:

PS 1-3 = generics and cannon fodder

PS 4-6 = generic veterans and almost all aces

PS 7-9 = iconic heroes of the galaxy (these pilots need to have serious "brand recognition" to qualify).

Then, what VI would allow players to do is "shift classes." A favorite ace could gain "heroic status" for that player. And heroic pilots could become gods. But in the overall arms race, if there were very few PS 7-9 pilots, VI wouldn't be much needed at the upper end of the scale to shift those pilots' firing order, it would been needed lower down the chain to advance those pilots up the food chain.

19 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Vader et. al. can be PS 11 any day of the week (and thus top dog)

Um, Vader should always be top dog.....

23 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Um, Vader should always be top dog.....

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-...

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-...

I find your lack of faith disturbing

If you make VI unique... almost no top list is effected... why bother?

if you cap VI at 9, you start a bid war instead of an initiative war (or in addition too).

I don’t see either move as being that helpful. Now a modified PS8 cap would shake things up. But that’d leave a dozen pilots as king of the hill... you’d have to want that for this to be a good move. Not sure many would.

Edit: according to the wiki... that’s 4 Imperials, 4 Rebels (5 if you count Han twice), and 3 Scum.. so pretty even spread.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Um, Vader should always be top dog.....

But in all seriousness, this might be my assignments of PSs:

Vader 9 (Sith Lord)

Poe 9 ("best fighter in the resiatnce")

Luke 8 (farmboy with a grasp of the Force)

Luke 9 (now, in TLJ)

Wedge 9 (only pilot to make it thru all 3 OT movies)

Han 8 (even I get boarded sopmetimes)

Lando 7 at best (iconic char)

Soontir 8-9 (best Imperial pilot, but no Force ability??)

Chewie 7 (as per Lando)

And thus most of the other EU aces drop to 6s and 7s. VI would let those characters shine a little more, but 90% of the time, Wedge, Vader, and Poe remain the best pilots in the galaxy.

Cap it at 9 but create another card that changes the ps value to ps+points spent.Cap at 9 as well. Many unplayed pilots would benefit

2 minutes ago, vtarin said:

Cap it at 9 but create another card that changes the ps value to ps+points spent.Cap at 9 as well. Many unplayed pilots would benefit

A thousand times no. You’d just recreate all the bombing problems we just solved.

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

A thousand times no. You’d just recreate all the bombing problems we just solved.

What is the ability were scalable?

VI becomes PS 4-6 Only.

PS 1-3 has access to adaptability, or a new card called "Promising Recruit " that is 0 points for +2 PS (although, how often will that matter).

PS 7-9 gets a new dual card called "Best in the Galaxy/Best of the Best" that grants +1 ps for 2 points or +2 ps for 3 points.