VI is fine. Its what certain ships do with PS10+ that is a problem. Namely bomb dropping with perfect information. Ships that drop bombs with insane repositioning should never have been given PS above 6-7

Someone has to move last. Lose VI and the "PS War" just changes to a different name. Now it's unfair that this guy is flying all PS 9s and his list is only 90 points. "NERF THE BID WAR! set minimum list points to 98! GAME SO BROKEN!"

I was on board where people said Nym was OP at a potential PS of 10. He is a bomber, even if he has lightning fast other worldly cat reflexes.. it is a bomber.. the SHIP should not be able to react that fast. But for nimble arc dodging aces, yeah, too bad. There is no scenario where either player can guarantee their place in the initiative order without sacrifice. And no matter what is done, whether the top PS is 9, 11 or 100 there will always be a top. VI is not the problem, it is working as intended to give a choice to the player of where and what they want to spend their points and slots on.

3 hours ago, DeathstarII said:

I find your lack of faith disturbing

Do you mean Darth Vader?

The guy who couldn't bring balance to the force?

Couldn't save his mom from slavery?

Couldn't save his wife from death?

Can't recognize "the high ground"?

Didn't recover the stolen data tapes?

Didn't save the Death Star in a ship-to-ship engagement?

Couldn't catch his son in a trap on Bespin?

Got his boss killed bringing an untested Jedi onto the second Death Star?

Is on so much life support he is wrecking everyone else's health insurance premium in the Imperial VA Plan??

That guy??

()

1 hour ago, BadMotivator said:

VI is fine. Its what certain ships do with PS10+ that is a problem. Namely bomb dropping with perfect information. Ships that drop bombs with insane repositioning should never have been given PS above 6-7

Hello TIE Phantom issue Part Deux.

5 hours ago, xbeaker said:

But you see, Roark is proof that 11 was always the intended 'cap.' That is why he makes ships a 12, to get them over that top end. The best pilots in the game have a PS 9 with an EPT. You can push them up to their maximum, or you can forgo that advantage for another EPT. Everyone calling for a hard cap on PS at 9 because PS 11 is too powerful, should realize that is a *BUFF* to all those high PS pilots. VI *IS* the nerf. because of VI you can't guarantee Vader will be the top PS pilot if you want to equip him with Expertise, PTL, or something else. If the cap is set to 9 then you have both the guaranteed top PS AND you can give him an additional EPT.

So if top PS is the only way you can win the game, I guess you are stuck with losing your EPTs. But learn to fly low PS ships and not only can you get out of the Pilot skill "war" but you can cost the other player valuable points. "You spent 3 points getting your ships all above 9? huh, well all my ships are only PS 4. So those points are wasted."

I kinda don't mind that though. Suddenly tons of PS 6-7 pilots become really viable.

16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Do you mean Darth Vader?

The guy who couldn't bring balance to the force?

Couldn't save his mom from slavery?

Couldn't save his wife from death?

Can't recognize "the high ground"?

Didn't recover the stolen data tapes?

Didn't save the Death Star in a ship-to-ship engagement?

Couldn't catch his son in a trap on Bespin?

Got his boss killed bringing an untested Jedi onto the second Death Star?

Is on so much life support he is wrecking everyone else's health insurance premium in the Imperial VA Plan??

That guy??

()

...yes

2 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I kinda don't mind that though. Suddenly tons of PS 6-7 pilots become really viable.

how.. eliminate VI and a PS 9 is still better than a PS 6-7 but now that PS 9 can take another EPT without fear of losing their top spot on the PS list. If you mean that a PS 7 can take VI but that 9 can't (due to a PS cap) then you break one of the fundamental mechanics of the game. Pilots like Whisper and Ashoka get a huge buff as they can now play knowing no one can get a higher PS than them.

4 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

how.. eliminate VI and a PS 9 is still better than a PS 6-7 but now that PS 9 can take another EPT without fear of losing their top spot on the PS list. If you mean that a PS 7 can take VI but that 9 can't (due to a PS cap) then you break one of the fundamental mechanics of the game. Pilots like Whisper and Ashoka get a huge buff as they can now play knowing no one can get a higher PS than them.

Okay.

Which means they can't take EPTs that may be more useful to them- but here's the thing. Vader with PTL. Vader not taking VI. Think about that.

4 minutes ago, DeathstarII said:

...yes

A little conversation Palps shoulda had with Ani:

1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Okay.

Which means they can't take EPTs that may be more useful to them- but here's the thing. Vader with PTL. Vader not taking VI. Think about that.

Um.. yeah, that is the whole point. Vader could be an 11, but he chooses to be a 9 with PTL. That is my point, you trade off knowing you have the top PS on the table to get a more versatile pilot that can take more actions.

Or is your reasoning that Vader should always be the best no matter what and god forbid someone hove a higher PS than him? he is a better pilot... he just has a lot on his mind at the moment.

18 hours ago, BVRCH said:

I doubt it. Veteran Instincts isn't an issue in itself, its what certain ships at PS11 can do with full board knowledge that is the issue. The FAQ has addressed a lot of those issues and the 'PS war' likely won't matter as much as in the next few months.

Yeah well anything that can't take advantage of the board knowledge it gains (or denying that knowledge to the opponent) by moving later isn't going to take VI, then, is it?

Let's rephrase that:

"Genius" isn't an issue in itself, it's what one certain pilot can do with it (in regards to totally negating its typical downside) that is the issue.

You'll notice that the fact that any Scurrg besides Nym would be able to use "Genius" with bomblets and not be outrageous didn't prevent the erratum.

The existence of counterexamples in which a card can be used in a not-extreme way does not imply that the card is fine.

42 minutes ago, DeathstarII said:

...yes

I see from your handle you believe in second chances. . .

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

VI becomes PS 4-6 Only.

PS 1-3 has access to adaptability, or a new card called "Promising Recruit " that is 0 points for +2 PS (although, how often will that matter).

PS 7-9 gets a new dual card called "Best in the Galaxy/Best of the Best" that grants +1 ps for 2 points or +2 ps for 3 points.

This is a great idea, and so much more thematic. After all, Vader doesn't just have the instincts of a veteran. He IS a veteran.

ugh, triple post!? WTH?!

dang double post.

28 minutes ago, Sparklelord said:

Let's rephrase that:

"Genius" isn't an issue in itself, it's what one certain pilot can do with it (in regards to totally negating its typical downside) that is the issue.

You'll notice that the fact that any Scurrg besides Nym would be able to use "Genius" with bomblets and not be outrageous didn't prevent the erratum.

The existence of counterexamples in which a card can be used in a not-extreme way does not imply that the card is fine.

Hmm. . .let's rephrase that again:

So if there is one upgrade card that makes 1 pilot out of hand it would be better to nerf the otherwise non-offending upgrade cards across the entire game as a whole rather than nerf the one pilot that creates an egregiously powerful interaction with that one said upgrade card??

The use of outliers in which the card is broken does not imply the card is not fine.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Got his boss killed bringing an untested Jedi onto the second Death Star?

Technically he killed his boss, Luke got whacked hard in that fight. He may have been able to best his old man but without Vaders intervention Kylo and Rey would be teaching themselves.

That said the new Vader movie looks pretty awesome and shows the Lord of Sith worthy to be feared.

1 hour ago, xbeaker said:

Um.. yeah, that is the whole point. Vader could be an 11, but he chooses to be a 9 with PTL. That is my point, you trade off knowing you have the top PS on the table to get a more versatile pilot that can take more actions.

Or is your reasoning that Vader should always be the best no matter what and god forbid someone hove a higher PS than him? he is a better pilot... he just has a lot on his mind at the moment.

We're going off the assumption that VI doesn't raise you above 9 in this thread, right? That's what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about how it works now.

Want less VI? Make it 3 points.

17 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

We're going off the assumption that VI doesn't raise you above 9 in this thread, right? That's what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about how it works now.

There have been a lot of things discussed about VI.. for the PS 9 cap to the (initial) making it unique. But in your scenario you just remove an option from Vader. This game is all about choices and trade offs in the list building state.

11 hours ago, Smutpedler said:

I hope not. I have about 12 copies of it including alt arts.

8-ps 5 Tie Fighters anyone? Forget crackshot!! New swarm resurgence??

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Hmm. . .let's rephrase that again:

So if there is one upgrade card that makes 1 pilot out of hand it would be better to nerf the otherwise non-offending upgrade cards across the entire game as a whole rather than nerf the one pilot that creates an egregiously powerful interaction with that one said upgrade card??

The use of outliers in which the card is broken does not imply the card is not fine.

When an "outlier" has, historically, been adequate cause to adjust a card, then in fact that's all you need to demonstrate, empirically.

The fact that there are many, many cases of pilots who use VI and can get disproportionately strong benefit from it compared to others is an indication that all is not well in PS-land. And when all is not well, that's a sign that it's a candidate for change.

15 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

There have been a lot of things discussed about VI.. for the PS 9 cap to the (initial) making it unique. But in your scenario you just remove an option from Vader. This game is all about choices and trade offs in the list building state.

Choices are good, but so are things being specifically designed for a certain thing. Vader has no use for Veteran Instincts in this scenario because he's Vader. The best fighter pilot in the galaxy. All anybody can do is match him. So if he doesn't need VI, by design, if he literally does not benefit, and people can ONLY match PS9 characters, then that means PS9 characters will always be valuable.

Just think. It'd be a great way to make Wedge useful again, or god forbid, make PS9 Poe Dameron actually really good.

Yes Yes. Cap Pilot Skill at PS9. What could possibly go wrong......................................................

Seems like playing with fire. Probably safer to just leave VI alone and be more selective about which ships get EPTs in the first place.

1 hour ago, Sparklelord said:

When an "outlier" has, historically, been adequate cause to adjust a card, then in fact that's all you need to demonstrate, empirically.

The fact that there are many, many cases of pilots who use VI and can get disproportionately strong benefit from it compared to others is an indication that all is not well in PS-land. And when all is not well, that's a sign that it's a candidate for change.

Well, that's not the example you used. In any event, I don't disagree that VI couldn't use a tweak, but overall it's not broken.

56 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Seems like playing with fire. Probably safer to just leave VI alone and be more selective about which ships get EPTs in the first place.

Sadly, I think more ships could use an EPT. If you toss the slot off pilots, then they lose a key way to specialize or facilely use other abilities. IHMO, it's one of the main reasons the Punisher is bad.

I think FFG should be far more discriminating with PS 7-9 for the long haul. Then, a few super-good pilots could remain super-good with VI, but it's main use would be to bring mid-echelon pilots into the upper-echelon.

But, as I stated before, it simply needs to be scaled. It value is trivial on the few low-level pilots that can use it, appropriate at the mid-level, and disproportionately good on high PS pilots.

Interestingly, I'm kinda surprised this is such a talking point. My impression was that most people used PTL on everything.