Hey Everyone,

just a thought, I don’t care either way, but FFG will try to reel in a card that dominates the meta, and at the moment this seems to be VI. Will FFQ FAQ VI so that it’s less of a thing in competitive games?

Is this a way to stop the crazy PS war going on right now?

Anyways, random thoughts in my head at lunchtime at work...

A better solution, to my mind, would be to cap PS at 9. It would rein in the abundance of PS10's currently possible and make native PS9 more valuable.

I doubt it. Veteran Instincts isn't an issue in itself, its what certain ships at PS11 can do with full board knowledge that is the issue. The FAQ has addressed a lot of those issues and the 'PS war' likely won't matter as much as in the next few months.

Taking VI means no push the limit or expertise or any other EPT.

As an Imperial player, capping PS at 9 would be awesome. Suddenly Whisper, Soontir, Vader and a host of other PS 7 and 8 pilots become a little bit more usable.

It would also make Kylo RAC a little less obnoxious.

The downside is that it would make initiative even more important.

I like the idea of capping PS at 9. There's no feasible situation where someone should be better than Vader, Wedge, the like. As good as though, that, that is perfectly acceptable.

It also makes Roark Garnet really interesting. His ability could still work if he was the only thing that could have somebody else exceed the cap, because that requires two ships working together to accomplish the goal and I'd allow that.

18 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

A better solution, to my mind, would be to cap PS at 9. It would rein in the abundance of PS10's currently possible and make native PS9 more valuable.

This would be my preferred solution too, I think the option of going to PS a bajillion is cutting out a lot of other EPTs.

I think that guys like Roark and Omega Ace should be allowed to get around the cap, but I am hoping that a PS cap is put in place.

I think it would be interesting to cap VI to ps9, but allow adaptability to move the organic ps9s to ps10...if the player absolutely wants the ps advantage it limits the pilot choices, which could be a good thing. But likewise, FFG would need to be careful about releasing future ps9s.

10 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

The downside is that it would make initiative even more important.

You see a downside. I see another upside.

The decision process in an initiative war is way more interesting than a PS war.

I like the idea of indirectly nerfing stuff by changing rules rather than cards. In Destiny, they just changed an inherent rule to the game (the rule about overwriting upgrades) to only occur once per round. Likewise, I think TLT (nerf), PS10/11 (nerf), all non-TLT/HLC turrets/cannons (buff), Roark Garnet (buff), and Liea Organa (buff), and turrets (nerf) could all be fixed by changing two rules:

Pilot Skill cannot be inherently higher than 9. Temporary effects may change Pilot Skill for one round, and these may be used to increase Pilot Skill above 9.

Range bonuses may be added to all weapons except missiles and torpedoes. When attacking, you may not add range bonuses when attacking outside your arc.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I like the idea of capping PS at 9. There's no feasible situation where someone should be better than Vader, Wedge, the like. As good as though, that, that is perfectly acceptable.

Well, that is a little like saying "you can't take it cuz I don't feel like it and you're not allowed to out PS Vader."

Vader and Wedge have the option; if you don't bother that's not on the other player.

I will say that 2 PS for 1 point always seemed a little generous.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I like the idea of indirectly nerfing stuff by changing rules rather than cards. In Destiny, they just changed an inherent rule to the game (the rule about overwriting upgrades) to only occur once per round. Likewise, I think TLT (nerf), PS10/11 (nerf), all non-TLT/HLC turrets/cannons (buff), Roark Garnet (buff), and Liea Organa (buff), and turrets (nerf) could all be fixed by changing two rules:

Pilot Skill cannot be inherently higher than 9. Temporary effects may change Pilot Skill for one round, and these may be used to increase Pilot Skill above 9.

Range bonuses may be added to all weapons except missiles and torpedoes. When attacking, you may not add range bonuses when attacking outside your arc unless otherwise stated on the upgrade card . (e.g Dorsal Turret)

I like it!! *I made a small edit . I think this would really help the game out a lot. It is a very easy way to tweak TLT without an errata, it slightly buffs things like synced turret, reels in Dash just a tad without kneecapping HLC, buffs pilots that are either directly or indirectly reliant on PS to have their niche effects work as intended (e.g. Whisper, Ahsoka, etc.), and means you can outbid Nym and Imperial Alphas if you choose to build that way.

Its an elegant fix! It does make autoblaster/s a little stronger which is probably not a good thing however it still promotes good flying over all else in terms of auto damage.

This should have its own thread if it doesn't already.

Nah I say leave it as is. This is another sky is falling thread. We’ll see how good the imps are at the system opens. And after wave 12 if VI is a big problem then yeah maybe it needs to be a unique or something. But we really need to quit whining about every little thing or X-wing is gonna turn into plastic butter knife the miniatures game.

Maybe 1 point is generous for +ps 2, but considering your giving up PTL, intensity, predator, outmaneuver, expertise, etc. it’s always seemed an acceptable cost. And the only ship that can abuse this is the A-wing, and as much as I love that little ship, it doesn’t really make the top tables much, and even then hardly ever with VI.

Yeah Ps 11 Vader and Ps 10 Nym can be annoying, but how about if we’re going to fix anything how about the new upgrade? Why not balance harpoons instead of VI? Point im making Ps 11 Vader was acceptable pre harpoons, and Nym without his genius abuse is at ps 10. But all of a sudden because this new missile if now being Ps 11 with the missile is the problem, then fix the missle not the ept!

The meta being PS higher than the maximum on any pilot card really restricts what pilots can even be used. If you're not natively at least 8 then you might as well not even be printed. I like the 9 cap. It makes it so the PS 7 pilots have a chance at play, and leaves the native PS 9 aces with more build options beyond just upping PS higher.

11 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

The meta being PS higher than the maximum on any pilot card really restricts what pilots can even be used. If you're not natively at least 8 then you might as well not even be printed. I like the 9 cap. It makes it so the PS 7 pilots have a chance at play, and leaves the native PS 9 aces with more build options beyond just upping PS higher.

You're right, it is a shame nobody runs Dash, kanan, lowhhrick, liberators, defenders, vessery, contracted scout, asajj, etc. ...

Probably not, to be honest VI although very common is not usually taken in pairs or more (unlike pre Nerf mindlink) because usually you can only afford one Ace pilot (Skill 7 or above) in your list. Also VI sort of only works in the 6-8 category with 5 being too low to affect anything and after 8 you are already beyond 95% of the ships you encounter so there is less returns to go above pilot skill 9.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, that is a little like saying "you can't take it cuz I don't feel like it and you're not allowed to out PS Vader."

Vader and Wedge have the option; if you don't bother that's not on the other player.

I will say that 2 PS for 1 point always seemed a little generous.

It's extremely generous. Should be at least 3-4 points because of just how huge of a difference it makes.

39 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I like it!! *I made a small edit .

This should have its own thread if it doesn't already.

I think numerous people have suggested the range bonus thing, at least to some extent. There’s probably a thread for it somewhere around here... I’m actually just surprised it wasn’t always this way! Several years back when everybody was just learning how cannons work with stuff like the Firespray, I remember people saying “what do you mean, I don’t get the range 3 die? Why?” For whatever reason, ordnance makes perfect sense without any range bonuses but turrets and cannons just inherently don’t.

Also note that Dorsal Turret isn’t actually a range bonus, it’s a special bonus from the card! With the proposed rules change, Dorsal Turret would behave as normal outside of arc, but you’d actually get two extra dice in your arc at range one!

5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I think numerous people have suggested the range bonus thing, at least to some extent. There’s probably a thread for it somewhere around here... I’m actually just surprised it wasn’t always this way! Several years back when everybody was just learning how cannons work with stuff like the Firespray, I remember people saying “what do you mean, I don’t get the range 3 die? Why?” For whatever reason, ordnance makes perfect sense without any range bonuses but turrets and cannons just inherently don’t.

Also note that Dorsal Turret isn’t actually a range bonus, it’s a special bonus from the card! With the proposed rules change, Dorsal Turret would behave as normal outside of arc, but you’d actually get two extra dice in your arc at range one!

Yeah I think as cannons are fixed weapons and can be used each turn like a primary, they should behave as primary weapons do in terms of range.

Ordnance, certainly from a defensive stand point, shouldn't have a range bonus. If someone shoots a missile at you, you shouldn't be harder to hit because your further away etc. the attacker has spent their target lock in most cases and that should count for something.

Oh good call about dorsal, that's true! I like it even more now haha.

4 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Nah I say leave it as is. This is another sky is falling thread.

This isn't a thread "OMG fix VI", it's a question of will they change VI they way they did with Deadeye. I understand they arent exactly the same, but my thinking was, VI gets a crazy amount of play for a 1 point upgrade, will FFG do something to it?

I do like the PS 9 cap, as has been said before, it makes a lot of other pilots matter again. ATM it seems either go low PS generics or go PS 8/9+VI somethings.

I hope not. I have about 12 copies of it including alt arts.

Interesting thread, .I too like a cap or a ‘max PS to use’ in the card; cool idea @Kieransi ; but I think it might simply be a question or irritation with Nym. Put simply, bombing and ordinance chassis —until Nym— we’re set by FFG to be capped at PS 7 with no EPT. They broke a good internal house rule and the result is, we have a problem. In the Spirit of the game, we all feel it deep down inside that only the truly movie iconic characters should gain top PS billing; Wes, Vader, Luke, Han.....never mess with a good thing, it always ends badly.

It's not just Nym though, VI Vader and VI Quickdraw are (ab)using it as well, in combination with Harpoons.

(Harpoons are insane too, just by the by)

U wat mate?

VI is of concern on basically every PS9 who doesn't want PTL, and makes PS9s who can't use VI effectively and PS8- aces generally, very, very hard to play.