Ok let's start with the reason I'm ranting is besides getting this off my chest hopefully I'll get some opinions and other perspectives on their thoughts.

I really want to like this game, the artwork, I appreciate it's a new game system that is not a MTG clone and I'll be honest I don't find myself loving it as much as I did with ANR.

Then I come to the following things that annoy me:

• more official rulings and FAQs that seems to grow every single week and I haven't even looked at playing cards out of the core set yet.
• lack of clarity and ease of finding information about World Champs events, most of the info/data came from the community itself. I mean they could have a proper webpage dedicated to posting daily results and Stats etc.
• the commentators/judges at world champs could have been much better...

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

and I haven't even looked at playing cards out of the core set yet

You crack me up. Seriously. You are ranting about a game in which you haven't looked at the core sets cards yet. You are seriously the most hilarious complainer I have seen yet. And I read the duelling thread. All of it.

15 minutes ago, Matrim said:

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

You crack me up. Seriously. You are ranting about a game in which you haven't looked at the core sets cards yet. You are seriously the most hilarious complainer I have seen yet. And I read the duelling thread. All of it.

His points still stand. The third point is irrelevant imo, but the first and second will most likely be a Problem in the future.

• Magic-clone: You mean like you bow your provinces to generate a mana-like substance called fate to play samurais, instant-events and enchantments/attachements on the table so that you can attack your opponent directly to make him lose his life/honor? Yes, I can see how that is exactly the same thing.
• FAQs: Well, that's just the nature of card games like this which you should know if you'd really love ANR as much as you say you do. This is not just a simple board game with a couple of components. We have literally hundreds of cards interacting with each other. The only way to minimize the FAQ and ruling explanations would have been to delay the release for two more years of playtesting.
• World Champ events: Lots of info/data came directly from FFG. Not from a website per se but from their Twitter account. The community simply took that stuff and spread it through other social media channels.
• Seriously? They do that maybe twice a year (World Championship and GenCon). They're not professional commentators! If this really bothers you, I suggest you stop watching. Or maybe try to convince FFG to hire ESPN personal for 2018. Kickstarter campaign?

If these are the reasons you don't like this game, then I really don't know what else to say. I can't really give you other perspectives. To me it doesn't look like you really want to like this game. It looks like you're trying to find reasons to not like this game and that you're grasping at straws to have at least some arguments. What about the game itself? I even can't tell you that L5R might not be the right game for you since you never gave me any reason as to what you don't like with the game itself? Are there any gameplay mechanisms you hate? Is something missing that you believe the game desperatively needs?

I actually thought he meant OUT OF THE CORE, meaning outside of the core, as in without expansions...? Please clarify OP

Well if that was the case then my humour was mis-placed....

10 hours ago, XTrueFinale said:

Ok let's start with the reason I'm ranting is besides getting this off my chest hopefully I'll get some opinions and other perspectives on their thoughts.

I really want to like this game, the artwork, it's all game styles (besides another MTG clone) and I'll be honest I don't find myself loving it as much as I did with ANR.

Then I come to the following things that annoy me:

• more official rulings and FAQs that seems to grow every single week and I haven't even looked at playing cards out of the core set yet.
• lack of clarity and ease of finding information about World Champs events, most of the info/data came from the community itself. I mean they could have a proper webpage dedicated to posting daily results and Stats etc.
• the commentators/judges at world champs could have been much better...

Ignore Matrim, he is a jester of sorts

I really disagree with the MTG clone statement. It is as far as you can go from MTG, only lacking the a-symmetry of Netrunner.
While I'm coming from Netrunner background (which I loved when I played), moving to Thrones for sure made my transition into L5R easier. Currently I'm trying to drag in 1-2 ex Netrunner buddies and they have a hard time making the entry. Some of the dislikes they have are:

• Not as elegant/clean as Netrunner ( specifically prompting, confirming and returning to Action Windows in each phase)
• Big entry cost with new Release format
• Game is slower
• Can't make a legal standard deck with 1 core set

The answers I came up with for them, might be able to give you another perspective on the game:

• Netrunner - while it had unmatched elegance in the a-symmetrical design and some other aspects, Action Windows, or Paid Ability Windows were definitely not absent. They just had few cards that interacted with them in complicated manners. In fact, 2 years down the line, they had to update the online FAQ for Stages/Process of a Run, because the one in the Playbook didn't display correctly all of the Paid Ability Windows. The fact that L5R has them stated with big Capital Letters up front allows for more card interactions with them starting with the Core Set provides more rich gameplay and allows for more Design Space .... rather than what A:NR did to sort of ignore them at the start and then come back to emphasize on how important they are, when people started scratching their heads when certain cards can be used.
• That is in fact very true. However, no other LCG has been better suited for Sharing than L5R. The Clan loyalty element makes it great for collecting with your best buddy.
• Yes that's also a fact. Still it is a different experience than the fast paced hacking of A:NR as well, depicting a different scenario in a different world.
• Nothing to add here ... this is all on FFG :\

Ignore Matrim, he is a jester of sorts

Hold on is this my wife's secret account?

16 minutes ago, Matrim said:

Hold on is this my wife's secret account?

"Wife" He jests again!

hoho. Though I am acutely aware this is a fantasy game so will perhaps have several of the fabled stinky lives with mother variety of gamers I am actually indeed married. But am also old (ish) so go to your room!

There's some merit to the concern about information for the game. A general lack of updated information is very present on the main site and often any card rulings have to be dug up on other sites.

Is there anything preventing the designer from posting on an official site than an unofficial one?

There can definitely be an improvement.

2 hours ago, Dydra said:

I really disagree with the MTG clone statement. It is as far as you can go from MTG, only lacking the a-symmetry of Netrunner.
While I'm coming from Netrunner background (which I loved when I played), moving to Thrones for sure made my transition into L5R easier. Currently I'm trying to drag in 1-2 ex Netrunner buddies and they have a hard time making the entry. Some of the dislikes they have are:

• Not as elegant/clean as Netrunner ( specifically prompting, confirming and returning to Action Windows in each phase)
• Big entry cost with new Release format
• Game is slower
• Can't make a legal standard deck with 1 core set

I would argue that in its own right L5R is just as elegant as Netrunner. I too am a long time Netrunner fan. In fact the old Purple and Green backed Netrunner Richard Garfield put out was my all time favorite (non-digital) dueling game until FFG rebooted it with some nice tweaks, (big fan of the Identities). There are still things I loved about the original that were not quite captured in the Android version, but that's merely aesthetic and expected. (I LOVE Pondsmith's Cyber Punk!)

But L5R has its own unique elegance in that there are so many decision points that lead to no two games ever playing out the same. (More so than most other card games.) As to the prompting ect. that is a lot on the players. I have played great games where we constantly check with each other for reactions, action opportunities, and such. They are often the most enjoyable games with the fewest disagreements on timing that I have played.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the entry cost being 'Big'. $210 includes the entire first cycle and gives you a complete play-set. That is staggeringly cheap for a card game. Even back in the day when I played Magic on a minimum wage food service job I would have found this to be far more affordable. Additionally you can get away with just 2 cores right now for all but super competitive play. $80 is nothing for this hobby (relatively speaking).

The game is only slower due to player familiarity. A few games I have played have gone very smoothly and only took around 40 min or so. I find that to be about right. Others may find this to be too long and I get that. But then again one of my all time favorites is a large 5+ player Jihad game...

As to the can't make a legal deck with 1 core... I gotta say, so what. Who would want to? I wouldn't want to play a 1 core deck with ANY LCG. At least in L5R there is very minimal waste in buying 3x cores. In the previous LCGs the second core was around 20 - 30% waste and the 3rd core was for around a dozen cards or less.

I do wish FFG was better about providing timely rulings that were clear and presented in an easy, consistent to find location. Sometimes it does take some digging and that can be a bit vexing.

Well, it is fine if you live in a country that allows you to easily spend 210$ bucks on hobby/card games in the span of 2 months, but that isn't the case for all of us . Also in Europe that's more about 210+ EURos which is even more.
Considering this, there actually are people who want to start with 1 core and then build into chapter packs, or perhaps go with 2 cores at some later point.This was pretty viable option for an LCG and in fact in Netrunner i only ever owned 1 core set ( with drafting some cards as a reward from tournament). This didn't stop me from being the 2nd best player in our meta. Back in 2013 paying 40 EURos for a card game/hobby that won't bring me any funds back was quite a venture for me.

Having experienced this myself, I can't blame new players who feel it's expensive in any regards. FFG are definitely not helping the situation either. Quite the opposite ...
To round up things ... I actually feel the "waste" in L5R can be quite large. If you commit to one clan (which is the general idea FFG are going for), all the other 6 clan's dynasty cards are ... waste. Only if you are in a situation like me, where you try to promote the game a lot, or try out different clans to learn them .... the waste gets smaller.

8 minutes ago, Dydra said:

Considering this, there actually are people who want to start with 1 core and then build into chapter packs, or perhaps go with 2 cores at some later point.This was pretty viable option for an LCG and in fact in Netrunner i only ever owned 1 core set ( with drafting some cards as a reward from tournament). This didn't stop me from being the 2nd best player in our meta.

And why would you feel forced to buy all that is released straight away? If this is too big for you, split the cost and buy at your rhythm. If you go into an LCG you need to expect you will be pouring 15/20€ per month in it + around 1 deluxe expansion per year. Having all released in a short time frame does not make you forced to buy all that at once. You will just end up having this later than others.

And about staying relevant in the meta... I don't see why your core set deck would not be relevant anymore. Sure, you could lose some games towards some new cards, for a few month by the time you will eventually get them, but what are you expecting from this game? Winning or playing? If you play just for winning, well, to my opinion, it's sad. And even if you want to be highly competitive and play at WOrlds or GenCon, well, you still have quite a good pack of months to get ready don't you?

5 hours ago, Dydra said:

Well, it is fine if you live in a country that allows you to easily spend 210$ bucks on hobby/card games in the span of 2 months, but that isn't the case for all of us . Also in Europe that's more about 210+ EURos which is even more.
Considering this, there actually are people who want to start with 1 core and then build into chapter packs, or perhaps go with 2 cores at some later point.This was pretty viable option for an LCG and in fact in Netrunner i only ever owned 1 core set ( with drafting some cards as a reward from tournament). This didn't stop me from being the 2nd best player in our meta. Back in 2013 paying 40 EURos for a card game/hobby that won't bring me any funds back was quite a venture for me.

Having experienced this myself, I can't blame new players who feel it's expensive in any regards. FFG are definitely not helping the situation either. Quite the opposite ...
To round up things ... I actually feel the "waste" in L5R can be quite large. If you commit to one clan (which is the general idea FFG are going for), all the other 6 clan's dynasty cards are ... waste. Only if you are in a situation like me, where you try to promote the game a lot, or try out different clans to learn them .... the waste gets smaller.

To reiterate Hellvlad, there is no reason you can't take your time and buy as you can afford it. You probably have another 6 - 9 months before we even see more cycles/deluxe packs. If you find that the amount of money a game costs, you probably aren't part of the target audience. FFG is a company selling a luxury good. No one has a right to it. If you can pay you can play. That how gaming works. Now if FFG was a charity and for some reason gaming was a necessity then you would have a legitimate complaint.

Not really answering any of the points in the OP, but I was expecting more of a rant. This was... decidedly less ranty than advertised.

...and here I thought its a new Scorpion or Crane event card. ^^

On 11/8/2017 at 1:33 AM, HirumaShigure said:

I actually thought he meant OUT OF THE CORE, meaning outside of the core, as in without expansions...? Please clarify OP

Yes that's what I mean

I think I'm just frustrated that the ease of being part of this game has not been made easy. So far it's been heavily based off the online community and sources from everywhere to learn more the rulings and even the tournament event.

The improvement I want to see from FFG is something more like an official resources page, where they provide a page

- for all the rulings they have made so far and keep it up to date

- an official tournament events page, with player's name, their country, clan, which they can update results with as each round of the tournaments progresses. For example Starcraft 2 is ancient in terms of video games, but their tournament results and twitch support from Blizzard is really impressive and what I would call a Gold Tier for passion for supporting their games with players.

I probably mentioned this another post, but heck create and assign player ID's to use for official tournament events.

I have no hate for this game but I just wish it's more accessible in terms of community product support. Maybe I just have OCD for information organization .

The community or potential community for this game is HUGE, but I just feel that FFG has not been providing the game the top notch community support that I want/expect that is all.

41 minutes ago, XTrueFinale said:

Yes that's what I mean

I think I'm just frustrated that the ease of being part of this game has not been made easy. So far it's been heavily based off the online community and sources from everywhere to learn more the rulings and even the tournament event.

The improvement I want to see from FFG is something more like an official resources page, where they provide a page

- for all the rulings they have made so far and keep it up to date

- an official tournament events page, with player's name, their country, clan, which they can update results with as each round of the tournaments progresses. For example Starcraft 2 is ancient in terms of video games, but their tournament results and twitch support from Blizzard is really impressive and what I would call a Gold Tier for passion for supporting their games with players.

I probably mentioned this another post, but heck create and assign player ID's to use for official tournament events.

I have no hate for this game but I just wish it's more accessible in terms of community product support. Maybe I just have OCD for information organization .

The community or potential community for this game is HUGE, but I just feel that FFG has not been providing the game the top notch community support that I want/expect that is all.

Quit punching down, bro. All you're doing is summing up FFG's known(to many who've played LCGs for a while) organized play and rulings flaws. The unofficial resources are currently better and are likely to remain that way. The FAQ/rules reference will be updated by FFG periodically. Check out thronesdb or the annals (for Thrones 2.0 posted on cardgamedb) to see the possibilities and dedication of community run resources.

Besides... FFG probably spent a lot of time figuring out how to replace Banzai!

It's true local community initiatives could have more support.

First tournament I did for core set launch, we got screwed of goodies, because they didn't produce enough kit. And when my flgs complained they replied that's the way it is, don't expect the goodies. Found that lame.

1) While there are a lot of rulings online most of these are simply clarifications, not erratas or changes. If you are familiar with card game rules and give the Rules Reference guide a good read through most of the questions inserted into the online faq actually have a definitive answer. They are mostly in the Online FAQ because players refused to accept the rules as written, asked a dev, then received the answer that basically reinforced the interpretation as already understood by most players who are skilled with rule books.

Once you go through even just a few of the rules FAQ scenarios the way the rules work will actually be pretty simple to follow. Its not that complex of a game system.

2) I feel the game is not too large. I would recommend getting 3x core before you buy any expansions - unless there is a card in the expansion you KNOW you need. The reason for this is that you can always come back and buy these - but the core will give you the best playability for all clans and styles right away. You can literally skip around the expansions getting only the additional cards you need as you need them. The Core has the highest concentration of card that will always be important for all clans allowing you the best start right away.

Seriously - once you realize you can easily skip around expansions buying only the cards you know you need LCG become extremely cheap!