Indomitable Will Timing

By Nightcrawlers, in L5R LCG: Rules Discussion

Posted at

Hello!

I spoke to Brad about this at worlds, he suggested I post this here (I think here) to confirm the ruling.

Here is the scenario:

I am first player (dragon) and have Togashi Yokuni out. Yokuni has copied Yogo Hirue to bring him into my military conflict.

Yogo Hirue reads:

Action: While this character is participating in a conflict, choose a non-participating character – move that character to this conflict. Then, if you win the conflict, you may dishonor that character. (underlined being the text in question)

Once I win the conflict, I want 2 things to happen; dishonor Yogo Hirue (as he is the scorpion players only courtier at the moment) and play Indomitable Will; both are a reaction to winning.

Indomitable Will reads:

Reaction: After you win a conflict in which you control only a single participating character – that character does not bow as a result of the conflict's resolution.

My question ... what is actually going on here timing wise?

A) Do I have to trigger Yogo Hirue first and then play Indomitable Will?

B) Do I have to play Indomitable will immediately after winning?

C) Are they considered to happen at the same time regardless of when I play Indomitable Will? If so, do I control the actions because I am first player or can I control the interaction because I own both reactions or can I not control them at all?

At the event Brad said he would rule in favor of me being able to control, but suggested he was not 100% in his answer. Posting here to see if we can get more clarity on this timing window.

Thanks!

Posted at

Yogo Hirue's ability sets up a delayed effect that triggers on you winning the conflict. And from the RR on delayed effects:

Quote
  • Delayed effects resolve automatically and immediately after their specified timing point or future condition occurs or becomes true, before reactions to that moment may be triggered.

So, although the delayed effect and Indomitable Will both trigger on you winning you must do Hirue's ability first. You do have to play Indomitable Will immediately after winning, and by immediately I mean in the reaction window after step 3.2.3 (so before the unopposed penalty happens, before the province breaks and before ring effects happen). They aren't considered to happen at the same time (an example of that would be if Yokuni had a Way of the Dragon and pulled two people in. Then the first player would choose in which order you dishonored the two characters).