Hello everyone,

I know this question has been asked to death, but I can't find a clear ruling about Force Powers (for example, Move and Influence) and group of minions. I already asked on the FaD section but, I want to see additional answers.

For Move (FaD page 298), I have seen examples that disarming or moving away 3 Stormtroopers require Magnitud upgrade, in addition to other upgrades, because a PC is affecting 3 objects.

For Influence (FaD page 294) I have seen examples that with the first upgrade control (10xp), the PC might Influence 3 Stormtroopers with a difficulty 3 and 2 upgrades, considering the minion rules, 3 Will and 2 upgrades. For this case, I have seen that this action does not require the Magnitud upgrades.

In the Order 66 podcast, they consider a group of minions as a single target for Influence and Move

So, my question is: Does targeting Force Powers to groups of minion require Magnitud upgrades? And for Influence, do I need to apply the minion group rule and increase the difficulty?

Thanks for the answers!

Are you the GM?

"Targets" are different then "objects." Since multiple stormtroopers are multiple objects, I would require Magnitude upgrade to move multiple troopers with Move. But if you're targeting them with an attack or other effect, then yeah you treat them as one target.

I'm not sure I've ever heard the Order 66 guys say that you could move a whole minion group of troopers with the Move power, without a magnitude upgrade.

Perfect answer from awayput.

Just do add one consequence of this which I had not fully realize until recently: This means that you can control several groups of minions with force powers like influence, bind or misdirect to protect your whole group with this form of control. Which is excellent because it gives the players tools to mitigate some of the damage and can be used to make the combat a little less explosive and a little more controlled.

Thanks for the answers! This really helps me

Yes, I'm the GM of the group. Currently I have 2 FS (an Emergent and an Exile) heavily investing xp in the Force. Both have a force rating of 2 and focus on 2 force powers. One focus on Move and Influence and the other in Sense and Foresee. The second character is the one that plays the most, and usually commit dices for the Sense powers.

Regarding the Order 66 examples, I re-listened the 3 episodes involving force powers. For Move, they assume that pushing group of minions require 1 point and multiple upgrades may push multiple groups. For Influence, they use a group of stormtroopers as a single target (and considered as a group for the discipline check). For Bind, a similar example was quoted for the Vader entrance in Rogue One.

15 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

"Targets" are different then "objects." Since multiple stormtroopers are multiple objects, I would require Magnitude upgrade to move multiple troopers with Move. But if you're targeting them with an attack or other effect, then yeah you treat them as one target.

Taking this ruling, would you consider a group of minions as a single target for Bind, Influence and Misdirection (as SEApocalypse mention)? And if you want to disarm / push a group of storm troopers, would you use the Magnitude upgrades?

For some reason I consider this OP, but on the other hand a single grenade can take a whole group of minions. A good check and a crit on blaster can take easily 3 stormtroopers.

Also, we pass the 270 XP. Some characters have 3 yellows and 2 greens in Hvy weapons. The Pilot has 4 yellow and 1 green, and the Droid tech has 5 yellow and 1 green in Computers and Mechanics. So, "control" (bind/influence/move) a group of minions with the force doesn't sound so far fetch.

For Move I use the following:

If the FS wants to lift more than one minion he needs the magnitude upgrade
If he wants to disarm more than one person he need the magnitude upgrade (and the control upgrade to disarm of course)
If he want to lift more than one crate/ stone from the ground he needs the magnitude Upgrade

(each minion is a person, thats the reason why blast can be pretty effectiv against minion groups)

There is no reason (nether logically nor cinematically) why it should be any difference to lift 5 Crates/Stones, 5 Persons, 5 Weapons.

The moment a minion group is effected by move, I count the minions as two groups from that moment on the affected and the not affected ones. That is to keep it simple since the disarmed will have to ether go for brawl or regain the weapons, there is no reason why the not disarmed shouldn't shoot, especialy since a minion groop alway uses the same equiment ect.

If minions are lifted by move the count each as an object of theire own (for about 3 seconds befor they are smashed into the ground. Ether the FS throws them into the rest of the group with the autofire rule (as long as it is more than one) or just to the next wall (or bottomless ventshaft) those guys are Sil 1 Objects and will receive 10 damage + sucesses on impact as well as the target... that mostly kills off any minion and theire former group.

For direct Attacks (like force lightning) the group is still one target and magnitude will affect another group.

Thanks for your answer. I see your reasoning: Move objects, requires Magnitud upgrades for multiple objects. If you attack (like throw them in a bottomless pitt), doesn't matter.

For direct attacks, you considered the target is the minion group. One Magnitud upgrades per group.

I like @Nightone 's answers, and I think you just need to balance intelligent GM ruling with speed of play. Whatever is the smartest AND simplest choice is what you should go for.

For me, affecting a whole minion group with just the Bind basic power can be overpowered, so I'll have it effectively reduce the number of minions that can participate as part of the group. Likewise, touching that many minds with just the Misdirect basic power can get ridiculous.

But bottom line is, don't let the rules get in the way of having fun and creating a Star Warsy feel. If you can get all that with your interpretation of the rules as written, great. But if it doesn't feel like Star Wars or isn't fun, and some piece of the rules is to blame, then change the rules.