There is a huge debate on Facebook.

Apparently in Discord, one of the members (username Gabba) emailed Nate French about the Mulligan rules, and Nate responded that you are allowed to look at the cards you replace when you mulligan your Dynasty side. This means you can know what you have in your provinces before you mulligan your Conflict hand.

Exact wording:

Gaffa email asking the question on 22/10/17:In Setup, dynasty mulligans happen at step 6. You cannot look at facedown dynasty cards in your mulligans after that step. But the replacement happens during step 6; can you look at the replacement cards before you draw your fate hand and mulligan that?Nate French answer on 23/10/17:Yes — during this step, you can still look at the facedown cards. Players should have full knowledge the cards in their province going in to step 7.

3 minutes ago, Vutall said:

There is a huge debate on Facebook.

Apparently in Discord, one of the members (username Gabba) emailed Nate French about the Mulligan rules, and Nate responded that you are allowed to look at the cards you replace when you mulligan your Dynasty side. This means you can know what you have in your provinces before you mulligan your Conflict hand.

Exact wording:

Gaffa email asking the question on 22/10/17:In Setup, dynasty mulligans happen at step 6. You cannot look at facedown dynasty cards in your mulligans after that step. But the replacement happens during step 6; can you look at the replacement cards before you draw your fate hand and mulligan that?Nate French answer on 23/10/17:Yes — during this step, you can still look at the facedown cards. Players should have full knowledge the cards in their province going in to step 7.

We've always played it that way here.

"Players should have full knowledge the cards in their province going in to step 7." We assumed that was the intention. Not being able to see just those specific cards seemed off to us.

I bet this confusion (I've always played it that you cannot look at your replaced dynasty cards) comes from the Learn to Play, page 6-7.

Quote

...

6. Fill Provinces

Each player places one card from the top of their dynasty deck facedown onto each of their empty non-stronghold provinces. Players will have the opportunity to play these cards from their provinces during the game round.

After placing these cards during setup, each player has one opportunity to look at their facedown cards, choose which ones they wish to keep, and replace the rest (known as a mulligan). Set aside the cards to be replaced and deal a new facedown card into each empty province. Then shuffle the replaced cards back into the dynasty deck.

Note: After this point, players are not permitted to look at facedown cards in their provinces.

7. Draw Starting Hand

...

However, that note is not between the replacing mechanic and the shuffling one.

This interests me.

AAAAAH! I had no idea. This whole time, my whole group has been playing like you couldn't see your new Dynasty cards after mulliganing.

4 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

AAAAAH! I had no idea. This whole time, my whole group has been playing like you couldn't see your new Dynasty cards after mulliganing.

As did we. Actually, I learned this by watching Team Covenant's youtube videos.

A lot of folks learned from the TC video, and per the email Gaffa got, that video is 100% wrong.

9 minutes ago, Vutall said:

A lot of folks learned from the TC video, and per the email Gaffa got, that video is 100% wrong.

I may be wrong, but everyone at Worlds played as per TV video... strange that nobody said anything about this

10 minutes ago, Vutall said:

A lot of folks learned from the TC video, and per the email Gaffa got, that video is 100% wrong.

Except that they're right insofar as this is what is in the RR. It's very explicit. Technically, if you've been looking (prior to a specific dev ruling) you've been cheating.

3 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

Except that they're right insofar as this is what is in the RR. It's very explicit. Technically, if you've been looking (prior to a specific dev ruling) you've been cheating.

No, not exactly. Until you draw your opening hand, you're still in Step 6. And IN Step 6, it says...

Quote

Note: After this step, a player may not look at facedown cards in his or her provinces.

... the implication here being that, while in Step 6, you may look at your facedown cards.

I think making the dynasty cards fully known would be a great "change".

Any mitigation to variance and chance in a highly random environment is a positive to me. It lowers the luck-based stuff and increases the skill-cap.

18 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

the implication here being that, while in Step 6, you may look at your facedown cards.

Implication perhaps, but not a rule. More specifically, the rule that lets you look at all specifically says you may look that the cards 'placed in that manner', after the initial placement of 4. New cards placed after the mulligan were not placed in the manner the rule is referring to.

Sorry, but the rule is explicit. This new ruling directly contradicts the RR.

Official clarification:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37717-mulligan/

11 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

Implication perhaps, but not a rule. More specifically, the rule that lets you look at all specifically says you may look that the cards 'placed in that manner', after the initial placement of 4. New cards placed after the mulligan were not placed in the manner the rule is referring to.

Sorry, but the rule is explicit. This new ruling directly contradicts the RR.

Can you guys tell me where you are finding timing clarification for set up in the Rules Reference? I don't see it anywhere.

The core rulebook wording, to me, doesn't seem to contradict this at all. Steps 6 and 7 look like they are interpreted just as twinstar pointed out.

RR Page 15, Setup:

Quote

6. Fill provinces. Each player places a card from the top of their dynasty deck facedown onto each of their empty nonstronghold provinces. In player order, each player has one opportunity to look at each of his or her cards placed in this manner and mulligan any number of them.

Note: After this step, a player may not look at facedown cards in his or her provinces.

[emphasis mine]

1

1

Weirdly, the note is entirely superfluous as the rules never give you a second chance to look anyway.

Given what has transpired, they clearly meant to say that you can look at them and you get one opportunity to mulligan (which is how it is written for conflict cards). However, that is not what they wrote.

There was a second email sent to Nate French and he clarified, so you are absolutely allowed to look at your Dynasty before you draw your conflict during set up.

Shape those conflict hands ladies and gentleman! You have full knowledge of your flop now!

15 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

RR Page 15, Setup:

Weirdly, the note is entirely superfluous as the rules never give you a second chance to look anyway.

Given what has transpired, they clearly meant to say that you can look at them and you get one opportunity to mulligan (which is how it is written for conflict cards). However, that is not what they wrote.

I think you may be emphasising the wrong part.

" In player order, each player has one opportunity to look at each of his or her cards placed in this manner and mulligan any number of them."

So technically, by the letter of the law, you can look at your initial 4 Dynasty cards once, but your new cards any number of times during Step 6. It's a ridiculous extrapolation, but it's legal. The long and the short of it is, it tells you when you have to stop looking, and doesn't specifically say you can't see the new post-mulligan cards.

Huh, funny that the rulebook actually seems quite clear on this, and yet I never bothered to look at the new cards. More fool me.

4 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

So technically, by the letter of the law, you can look at your initial 4 Dynasty cards once, but your new cards any number of times during Step 6.

Go ahead and show me the rule that says you can look at them and sure. I won't hold my breath because no such rule exists.

17 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

Go ahead and show me the rule that says you can look at them and sure. I won't hold my breath because no such rule exists.

Then I will ask you, as well, to show me the rule that says, explicitly, you cannot. Play it as you wish, but I'll go with Mr. French's ruling until it is officially refuted.

2 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

Then I will ask you, as well, to show me the rule that says, explicitly, you cannot. Play it as you wish, but I'll go with Mr. French's ruling until it is officially refuted.

Already have:

21 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

Each player places a card from the top of their dynasty deck facedown onto each of their empty nonstronghold provinces. In player order, each player has one opportunity to look at each of his or her cards placed in this manner and mulligan any number of them.

One opportunity. If you look at them after you mulligan, you're breaking that rule. There is no other rule that allows you to look at your face down dynasty cards during setup. Any assertion that you can look at any other facedown province cards at any other time is an invention.

2 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

Play it as you wish, but I'll go with Mr. French's ruling until it is officially refuted.

If you actually paid any kind of attention, it might not have escaped your notice that absolutely no-one has said that we should play it the other way. At no point did I say people shouldn't go by the change. The only point I maid is that it is a change, not a 'clarification'. If you can't even understand what the actual discussion is over, I can't really see why I would care what rules you've invented for yourself.

Just please don't spread your nonsense to other people.

Assuming in your local area you follow the new clarification by the dev, then from what I see, the interpretation of the "One opportunity" applies to looking only once at face down cards. Thus after you mulligan, you can also "look" once at those replacement dynasty cards but I would suppose should not look at those Dynasty cards you did not replace.