4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:I really don't understand why she still doesn't just plop a Cluster Mine in front of them, if they're such a problem.
Because EI leaves you in a pretty bad position. It might still be the right equipment, meta depending, but it's a sizable investment that doesn't do anything against lists that don't care about your bombs (unlike ASLAM). It also means you're not taking Bomblets, which a lot of people like.
5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Because EI leaves you in a pretty bad position. It might still be the right equipment, meta depending, but it's a sizable investment that doesn't do anything against lists that don't care about your bombs (unlike ASLAM). It also means you're not taking Bomblets, which a lot of people like.
This. Plus, the debate of Miranda not being nerfed gets pretty circular when Adv SLAM did get nerfed and we're back to talking about action bombing.
Nerf You, cause that's why.
11 minutes ago, gennataos said:This. Plus, the debate of Miranda not being nerfed gets pretty circular when Adv SLAM did get nerfed and we're back to talking about action bombing.
Well exactly, because she didn't really get nerfed unless you CHOOSE to drop action bombs and suddenly open up a weakness.
I'd just go back to what @Khyros said...let the meta settle out. There probably won't even be an established post-FAQ meta before the next wave shakes things up even further. Heck, harpoons alone could make a significant impact.
24 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Well exactly, because she didn't really get nerfed unless you CHOOSE to drop action bombs and suddenly open up a weakness.
Not using action bombs at will is a nerf. As is buying action bombs and choosing not to use them because of a drawback. As is SLAMming and not taking a Focus or Target Lock afterwords.
5 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:The question is why didn't they nerf TLT to the ground. Miranda isn't that bad. She is one of the more balanced shield recharge abilitys.
Because some people like a viable turret.
5 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:Why didn't TLT get nerfed? Because there had to be something to make TIE Aggressors usable.
You mean "a way to get FFG money" instead of "usable".
Miranda was in four of the eight top list at the Nationals (East Europe?) this weekend. Maybe the meta hasn't had time to adjust but it's clear that people aren't running from her like other nerfed ships, and that's probably for a reason.
4 hours ago, Scopes said:Ionize her. She's a much more tame tigress.
21 minutes ago, AlexW said:Miranda was in four of the eight top list at the Nationals (East Europe?) this weekend. Maybe the meta hasn't had time to adjust but it's clear that people aren't running from her like other nerfed ships, and that's probably for a reason.
She's still good, but Scopes has a point: Against a Miranda that struggles to casually spam action-bombs, there is at least counterplay: She's easy to hit, and really hates hostile tokens.
My Defender List that landed me a top 4 in regionals loved fighting even pre-nerf Miranda, for example. Post-nerf, they've an even better chance; they were vulnerable to being overwhelmed by Nym+Miranda lists, and bumpNym is now largely gone.
This isn't to say the list is perfect in the post-nerf world (I'm particuarly wary of aces making a comeback), but just noting that counterplay is possible: She can be a bomber, or she can be an arc-dodging ace, but it's no longer so trivial for her to do both simultaneously.
10 minutes ago, Reiver said:
She's still good, but Scopes has a point: Against a Miranda that struggles to casually spam action-bombs, there is at least counterplay: She's easy to hit, and really hates hostile tokens.
My Defender List that landed me a top 4 in regionals loved fighting even pre-nerf Miranda, for example. Post-nerf, they've an even better chance; they were vulnerable to being overwhelmed by Nym+Miranda lists, and bumpNym is now largely gone.
This isn't to say the list is perfect in the post-nerf world (I'm particuarly wary of aces making a comeback), but just noting that counterplay is possible: She can be a bomber, or she can be an arc-dodging ace, but it's no longer so trivial for her to do both simultaneously.
And Tractor Beam-equipped ships ruin her as well.
6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:Yup. Fel versus Miranda is a match Fel should lose about 90% of the time, because Miranda can either regen any damage he;s done or SLAM to a place he can't shoot her most of the time, whereas his green dice will fail him eventually, and bomblets will catch him eventually, and unlike her, his hit points are limited and final...
So your complaint is that a 32pt Pilot can't beat a 43pt ship? Imperial Players are so entitled that they believe a 32pt Fel should solo any ship in the endgame, otherwise that ship is "broken." What happened to your other 68pts of ships that allowed Miranda to get into the endgame against your 32pt Fel?
Also, note that Miranda really doesn't have any chance to kill Fel in the endgame... just to hope to beat him on time. Since Boost+BR+Focus+AT makes him pretty immune to bomblets and TLT, especially if Miranda is sacrificing a die to regen some of the time.
1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
So your complaint is that a 32pt Pilot can't beat a 43pt ship? Imperial Players are so entitled that they believe a 32pt Fel should solo any ship in the endgame, otherwise that ship is "broken." What happened to your other 68pts of ships that allowed Miranda to get into the endgame against your 32pt Fel?
Was I complaining?
I was poitnign out that Miranda beats Fel. No more, no less.
Also, who plays a 32 point Fel, he's 35 lol
Miranda is destroyed by high attack turrets or spike damage.
She is good ship, the problem with Rebels is that other small ships that act as "wingmans" are just bad and don't have enough tools (Corran, Poe, Wedge). She is practically only viable wingman that provides flexibility and high survivability.
Also she is in good spot and she is perfectly beatable, if anything only thing that makes her powerful is one crew card - Sabine Wren. This steaming pile of crap should be nerfed into oblivion.
22 minutes ago, Embir82 said:Also she is in good spot and she is perfectly beatable, if anything only thing that makes her powerful is one crew card - Sabine Wren. This steaming pile of crap should be nerfed into oblivion.
My advice would be to not run over the bomblet.
They didn’t nerf it out of existence because the game isn’t called K-Wing.
8 hours ago, Dengars Toilet Paper said:I guess I was just expecting a bit more of nerf. But come on Force "Just because you get tired to see something does not mean it's too powerful." When a ships is in 4 of the top 8 it's more then me just getting tired of Miranda, Maybe im a bit salty cos i am a scum player and JM5K was like
So she was performing pretty well in one tournament? Well great. That proves that she is totally OP of course. No you are totally not bloating one result over proportion here...
Yeah i guess you musst be pissed because Toilet seats got a total nerf and she just lost her most powerful tool.
I disagree. She never was on the same power level as Toilet seats, and it's still a bit doubtful if she can maintain even a top meta level without her "bomb the ace in the face" shenanigans.
So let the meta settle first, and if she is over the top after that, i am sure something will be done. But if she is only one of the stronger options amongst many, then why the heck not?
Why should they nerf her to be unusable just because someone is slightly annoyed that his favourite tool got broken a bit more than someone elses...
Edited by ForceMI think the real question is why did Genius get nerfed and Sabine left alone?
1 hour ago, Embir82 said:Miranda is destroyed by high attack turrets or spike damage.
She is good ship, the problem with Rebels is that other small ships that act as "wingmans" are just bad and don't have enough tools (Corran, Poe, Wedge). She is practically only viable wingman that provides flexibility and high survivability.Also she is in good spot and she is perfectly beatable, if anything only thing that makes her powerful is one crew card - Sabine Wren. This steaming pile of crap should be nerfed into oblivion.
I’ll believe Corran is truly dead when Nathan Eide stops making top spots with him at premier level events.
So since May's worlds, I've been keeping track of the Nationals and Continentals results. So far, Rebels have won 13/16 of the events, with 25 of the final table lists being Rebel. Miranda has been in 19 of those 25 lists, and shes been in 10/13 of the winning lists. Scum had 6 lists make it to the final tables, pulling out the other 3/16 wins with 10 jumpmasters spread out among the 6 lists. While the empire put 1 list onto the final table of a national/continental event. The data for the faction lists that make up the top cuts is somewhat incomplete, as not every list has been entered, but I have the data of every list thats been put into list juggler.
This is what I have over all the results that have been entered into the top 16 or top 8.
Rebels so far have put 87/172 lists, or 50.6%
Scum have 64/172 lists, or 37.2%
Imperials have 21/172 lists, or 12.1%
So what does the first National event with the new FAQ show us? Well, there wasn't a single jumpmaster in the top 8, but Miranda is still going strong with a 4/8 showing. It's clear that Miranda was the most powerful ship in the game before the FAQ, and the most recent nationals didn't show any deviation from that pre FAQ trend. This is of course just 1 result and it was a tiny national event with only 44 players. I've been to multiple store champs who have had more attendance than that, so we can't jump to conclusions yet. I would wait for system opens to complete before seeing if we need to go after Miranda a bit more.
Edited by SnooSnarry...because, they just reprinted a bunch of those super-ugly non-Star Warsy ships. They gotta sell that trash, and no one who loves the original trilogy or cannon will buy it, so it has to stay the best ship in 100/6; it’s a simple business decision.
Edited by clanofwolves4 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:Because some people like a viable turret.
This should read- “ because some people like one turret being so much better than the rest of the turrets that you can’t decipher how good the other turrets really are anymore.”
Ion turrets saw play before TLT came to be. They weren’t oppressive either. They were just... good. Like things should be. They even still see occasional success from players today willing to break the mold.
TLT is the problem. Just because Blaster Turret is awful and maybe synched turret and dorsal turret don’t do enough to make it to a top table doesn’t mean we need an overpowered upgrade to make up for it. And let’s not forget that TLT isn’t just hurting those other turrets by giving them no place. It’s also killing one of the most beautiful aspects of the game- caring about your arc.
And this idea that TLT would suddenly no longer be viable if it saw an errata is asinine. Since when is “nerf” synonymous with “kill”? Because last time I checked, the Phantom is still good, Jumpmasters look to still have a place and x7 Defenders are still one of the best Imperial options.
A TLT nerf along with the others we recently saw would have put this game in one of its best states in a long time. There would still be some irritants (looking at you Kylo crew and Harpoons), but actually having a 50-50 choice between a arc bound generic and a turret filler again would be so sweet.
I could hazard a guess at quite a few reasons, but I think the most plausible (from the dev's perspective) is that the biggs nerf would up turn the rebel meta as much as the JM5K nerf up turned the scum meta, and they didn't want to take out 2 top guns in a single FAQ if it wasn't completely necessary.
Without Biggs she's lot easier to handle, don't get me wrong she is still top tier and a nightmare late game, but now players can get that first engagement burst damage on her without (necessarily) having to chew through Biggs first.
They may revisit Miranda next FAQ but I think the mentality was the heavy hand on biggs and the JM5K was enough to test the waters. 5 new ships are due out in just over a month so I think that was safe bet on their behalf.
Edited by BVRCH2 minutes ago, BVRCH said:
I could hazard a guess at quite a few reasons, but I think the most plausible (from the dev's perspective) is that the biggs nerf would up turn the rebel meta as much as the JM5K nerf up turned the scum meta, and they didn't want to take out 2 top guns in a single FAQ if it wasn't completely necessary.
I’ve heard this sort of explanation before and while it’s plausible, this seems like a really poor way to go about things. It’s esentially saying “well, we don’t want there to be no cards that are better than they should be, so let’s make sure one or two still exist so players still have a meta staple to turn to, because we are scared that faction’s players aren’t creative enough to find something new that works.”
Isnt the better option to just... fix everything that is too strong? Let the meta form from the floor instead of keeping a known power in the mix?
3 hours ago, Reiver said:
She's still good, but Scopes has a point: Against a Miranda that struggles to casually spam action-bombs, there is at least counterplay: She's easy to hit, and really hates hostile tokens.
My Defender List that landed me a top 4 in regionals loved fighting even pre-nerf Miranda, for example. Post-nerf, they've an even better chance; they were vulnerable to being overwhelmed by Nym+Miranda lists, and bumpNym is now largely gone.
This isn't to say the list is perfect in the post-nerf world (I'm particuarly wary of aces making a comeback), but just noting that counterplay is possible: She can be a bomber, or she can be an arc-dodging ace, but it's no longer so trivial for her to do both simultaneously.
Right, but that same counterplay was possible before and so -- as you mention -- the question is whether or not the meta opened up enough for counterplay against her. So far, the answer is not quite. I actually had beaten her quite, too, but have now lost a couple games against players running her and was soundly beaten (by more than I had in awhile) by a nasty, well played, Nym Miranda list.